23 April 2001 ERT WG minutes

Summary of action items, resolutions, and proposals


DD need stable W3C uri for this info. Need it in RDF.

WC Want me to copy what he has from infomesh to W3C?

DD Existing infomesh page that presents EARL as of a month ago. Has good background info. Needs to be cleaned up. Use that as a basis for EARL. Merge that with what Sean put up at infomesh.net/2001/earl/0.9

DD Once we have that, which groups do we publicize this to?

Action DD: once EARL page up and agreed upon by group announce to the QA list, both internal and public (www-qa), RDF-IG, ATAG, WCAG, validator list (although Gerald will be aware through other lists), PF. We'll try to get more feedback.

/* sean joins */

DD page not saved as HTML, get e-mail?

SP Looked into that. Something w/your browser?

DD Doesn't matter, WC will take that plus old page and merge them into something...

SP I've already done that. I've folded in 0.9 page into old page. Haven't been able to upload it yet.

DD We'll put the RDF version at the URI you proposed.

SP Still waiting for SW IG to give word on stability of N3.

DD Yes, some discussion about that. Some people not in favor, some said useful.

SP Yes, division. Danbri doesn't like it.

DD Once we've done that I will announce it to various lists so people can play with it. then see where it goes from there. do you need more time to polish stuff? we gave you write access to some portion.

SP Yes, I have access to 2001/03/earl.

Action SP: upload earl stuff to w3c site.

SP Need someone to change ACLs.

Action WC: change ACLs once get word from SP.

SP Talking with Aaron about it last night. We've been working on it all weekend. We've been using Daniel's model, but it is difficult to express in RDF. There are so many ways to do it. Don't know if it is optimal. Not too certain that the model can be converted to XML RDF since there are complications with context brackets. Not sure how they get represetned in RDF. There are bugs, that might be one in the schema. However, should be stable enough to implement. Tools implement in N3 or RDF?

DD I don't care. I find N3 easier to read, but not that much. RDF/XML syntax, we could then use XSLT and make it into something more readable (using verbs and sugar). N3 forces you into either a transformation into RDF and then into HTML. It's another step for human consumption. There was discussion about "is there a 1 to 1 mapping between XML/RDF." From unicode, it is not the case. Perhaps N3 can be fixed.

SP It's been changing a bit lately. Some unicode support, but limited to python support. It can never be completely compatible with XML/RDF. As long as the model is expressed. Have people looked at the diagrams?

DD Yep, look good.

SP Used WebDraw.

DD is that the aaron simplified model?

SP Yes. Hard for me to grasp what he's been doing. Have a node hanging off of test subject. He's using as a property. There are comments in the examples. It hides the semantics we're trying to express. Those should only be things that will not be machine processed. I should write more documentation on that.

DD We made a timeline, first an example, then work on some by hand. We need to work according to this plan. We need to look for more comprehensive example by hand. Then have a tool generate. CMN started looking at something. Perhaps WAVE or Bobby can do something quickly. As well as HTML or CSS validator.

SP I cc'ed the schema to validator people. They seem quite interested.


WC LK won't be able to attend.

CR I can attend.

WC Unlikely that SP will attend.

DD We need to have a clear target for the meeting. CMN and I will be there. We could ask DanBri to come. HB? I doubt WL will be there. Do you think WCAG or ATAG meeting would join? One reason to meet in Amsterdam is XForms and HTML. We should join them at some point. We could identify a day to meet with them. 1/2 day for each. Already consumed a day of joint meeting, mostly for WCAG.

WC Anticipated agenda?

DD Requirements for XHTML 2. More along line of PF in a sense.

WC Joint PF/ER meeting was good in December, good discussion on EARL.

DD What is the benefit for WCAG or ATAG to meet in Amsterdam on those days? Other than meeting own.

WC Have them review our new techniques documents.

DD As far as ERT is concerned, we might as well wait for PF/ERT opportunity.

WC Maybe best to hold off until we know we have a prototype.

CR Any news on when WCAG 2 will be done?

WC Nope. Shooting for something stable by end of the year.

DD What about WCAG?

WC Haven't heard from Gregg yet. Need a meeting, especially since we can get Dundee folks there to talk about usability testing. Perhaps informal, but to talk about usability testing.

DD What is a good overlap with xforms? middle of the week? 20/21 then people who want to go to xform come a day early, those who want to stay for xhtml can stay a day later.20/21 for WCAG, ATAG can go on either side of that.

Proposal: ERT wait to meet with PF, something in June in Amsterdam doesn't work for ERT.

Next meeting

DD No meeting next week since meetings in Hong Kong.

Resolved: next meeting 7 May.

$Date: 2001/04/23 15:06:07 $ Wendy Chisholm