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EOWG Minutes, September 5, 2001


Outreach Updates:

JB, I had not sent the message with a meeting time, and the phone line. I have not been able to call for review for the business review as yet. We are swamped with European and other duties. We have something to look at from NL. HBj, Have you had any luck working on your pieces?

HBj, We have a new version of a Danish speech synthesizer, and Jaws. This tied me up. I had hoped for the minutes. I will be leaving the call in about 45 minutes.

JB, Yes ok. Let me get on the change log. HBj, If you need to leave soon let me know. Who has outreach comments?

AA, One thing. Any comments on your piece or NL¹s draft piece you might have before you go?

HBj, If any of you have any offhand ideas about the piece. I am trying to put this implementation plan together for a web design business. I was a little confused seeing the difference between all the different organizations. At the bottom line they are alike. What is the idea to sell the idea to the customer?

JB, I can quote just briefly from the change log. If there is a delay in my posting the minutes please check out the change log. Emphasize the plan to sell to businesses, high degree of confidence about talking about the issues; emphasize design points that might need retrofitting otherwise. AA, Could you help HBj?

HBj, I will try to send my ideas to AA. It is a bit slow for me to write this because I am trying to write in English.

AA, Just to mention briefly, I recently joined the Melbourne WAG Web Accessible Group, Charles and Cathy Neville have been in Melbourne. Primarily the Semantic Web was the discussion. Breathed some life into the groups.

JB, Those meeting can go on while out of the country. Charles will be in Massachusetts soon. I know there is a group keen to do this in November. We are trying to decide if the Web content group is appropriate. We don¹t have an answer about where to place them.

HBj, Any plans for a meeting in the autumn?

JB, We are slipping the deadlines for October in DC. Looking at some dates for later. I don¹t have anything definite. If you want to suggest something HBj.

HBj, December is very difficult in Europe. Some big online events in Europe. All budgets are tight for that time. The closer to January the harder.

JB, Any comments about the schedule. Any other outreach updates?

Corporate Implementation Plan

Let¹s talk about NL¹s document. NL brought up Carlo¹s implementation plan. Not appropriate for a more decentralized corporate implementation plan. NL volunteered to write up something for a more decentralized or centralized. It has a lot of specifics. It looks more real world in regard to all the detail for a company. I¹m not sure it is just for a company. I provided a few clarifications. We can¹t assume 508 apply. We want to look for something besides guidelines. NL what sort of feedback would you like?

NL, when I looked at the previous document I wasn¹t clear about what the document was saying. Each company has it¹s own way of presenting these issues. How to approach the issue. What kind of roles and responsibilities do they have? What kind of information that I would start from scratch. I wouldn¹t know how big the company is. I just want to have the major steps to make it happen.

JB, When you are talking about the document you are just referring to the one pager?

NL, Yes, refers to the tasks to put together a plan. I can go into more details, and how each organization would approach this problem.

JB, I wanted to look at the umbrella page of the implementation plan, the page that would be linked from. If you were to go to the home page business resource suite. WAI/WAI/draft/b-case.

AA, While NL is looking another level of documents to look at. Carlos was working on something to do something specific, two kinds of documents.

JB, Are you on the home page for the business? Go to the samples. AA, this says implementation generation. Not specific to any one company or time frame, or school. Not redundant. Strip out a lot of detail in terms of questions that are asked. That NL has listed things we hadn¹t thought of. This was sort of an outline. Carlos¹ would be on this page, and linked to this. His doesn¹t have the back links. I think we are saying the same thing. What I would like to suggest is that we walk through Natasha said. I don¹t think it is redundant.

NL, Want me to walk you through that?

JB, I am thinking if I start with the other document since I know it. So looking at the start at the first line. This is the same point that the sample implementation plan starts. This could be clearer that this document starts at where management acknowledges that it has the needs. Companies create the policies. An assessment before the start.

NL, At this point a lot of people address this on a random basis. More and more people will address this. Evaluation will take a lot of time. A corporation would not want to do that.

AA, Once a commitment has been made that a plan has been made that we see documents on the ground to proceed.

NL, Looking at the samples of the code a big corporation is not used entirely in the company. A lot of people did not follow through. Every one needs to know within an organization that accessibility is happening.

JB, What I am hearing to is to de-emphasize the implementation step

AA, I disagree, the current document the first step says go through the implementation and assessment, and do a quick assessment.

NL, A waste of time to evaluate at this stage.

AA, I would like to emphasize this a little stronger. Rather than an evaluation like a few weeks ago.

JB, The title is assess current situation first do a quick assessment, two

the key questions to answer may include when we get to the one, where there

awareness. How much promotion has to be done. In a parenthesis links to

preliminary review.

AA, That would be uncertain or mean uncertain.

HBj, Not so many words.

JB, I share Natasha¹s fear that people use assessment to avoid doing

anything for half a year or a year. A full conformance is not necessary at

this stage.

HBj, On number six and organization is subject to external requirements.

JB, What is that again?

HBj, Key questions are number five and six. If we look at Natasha¹s


Natahsa, I couldn¹t find.

JB, Are you going to be online for a little longer HBj?

NL, I am at assess situation?

JB, I want to finish with being obsessed with the pre-evaluation.

NL, I would like to play devils advocate. If you know your company

hasn¹t addressed assessment. One must have done that.

JB, I will defend. We were trying to do somewhat comprehensive. On the

section on developing an organization policy. Specify a conformance level.

Some policies. Promoting awareness. The steps one takes can be more finely

tuned what the level of awareness is in the organization. Sort of like a

business approach.

AA, It may well be that the people preparing the plan without having to do a

review because they know enough.

JB, What if we changed things to read that is may be obvious to make these

changes. Have we adequately addressed the concerns about the assessment

thing stay first? Have we adequately addressed Natasha¹s concerns?

NL, Yeah if we emphasizes the business concerns. From the business

perspective to come up with the overall perspective.

JB, To look back to the document you stated. The president and employees

are providing. Look at what is in the promotions section. Approaches

include standard distribution channels to get the word out. What you jump

out to the high level champion. Pay attention get the CEO to champion it.

That is helpful.

NL, Yes.

AA, That is very right from the top. This gets taken seriously. They¹ll do

something about it and it will happen. Will do if that is interesting.

DS, I agree with AA.

JB, I am not sure it is a very If we go down the list to CEO to assign

responsibilities. Not showing up in this document. May have been in

Carlos¹ document. Clarify the importance of an overall coordinator.

HBj, I am thinking of this table from Natasha. This sounds like a big

organization. Replace with CEO with top management.

JB, I am writing highest management rather than CEO. This is interesting to

me. Where Carlos was naming all the people, and Natasha was naming the

scope of responsibilities rather than roles which is more affective.

HBj, I think you are right JB.

AA, I am saying the same things. It gets lost in Carlos detail.

JB, Ok so then we have to identify the scope of the project. Comments?

Conduct PR out side the company comments? Develop the policies or elaborate

on the policies.

NL, About the more technical details? Issues! Here these are a lot of

overlapping issues. You need to take this from marketing. What kind of

skills do they need?

JB, Write something more general about scope of responsibilities which shows

what kind of skills are needed. On developed training materials, I would

like to say develop and identify.

NL, Yes.

HBj, What was that JB?

JB, Research and acquire the software needed to do this. Customizing

materials, retrofit company style sheets, conduct usability tests. What


NL, From our experience from 508 standards we made our own policies.

We made some small changes mostly clarification. This took a long time. If

you are talking about W3C you must be clear about the policies.

JB, I think that belongs above training. The change will start getting a

little confused here. Let me put on Natasha¹s draft. Shift comments

technical questions up above training. Natasha is there going to be a

second draft on this?

NL, I am doing several things at once. I will do

JB, So that is the file for testing environments? A reference document for

each one of them. Put that up top, number five.

NL, This is very important.

JB, HBj you had a comment about the bottom part of this section?

HBj, Department of HP in Denmark if that was to apply to smaller companies.

Not all applies to them so that it is easier for them. You might say if the

size requires that you would do certain things.


NL, If you have more than web site developer who knows the content.

JB, That almost sounds like an extreme statement. If you have one web team.

Then you have the same software. One web developer. I think what HBj is

raising, that this sounds huge. How can we best package this advice for

people? This looks like a corporate plan, some being relevant to a large

government agency.

HBj, I like this document a lot which is about what it takes for this sort of

thing to keep in mind. Maybe we could say something about if the

organization is large enough is that the general idea would work for a

company for thirty employees.

JB, And for a large decentralized organized develop an extended team for

this in each country. A parenthetical highlight. Ok are there any other

comments. Before we get to the major milestone section. In the major

milestone section evaluate the site, conduct a managers meeting prioritize

the project, develop a plan to present to the stakeholders.

What does the term stakeholders mean?

NL, Heads of divisions.

JB, Evaluate web accessibility tools. Identify early adopters.

JB, I am going to check on the process of minuting.

NL, I would like to say things generically.

JB, The WAI groups almost all exists in a public space. It is very important to have real experience to share so we want to express things appropriately. Provide training things for the internal web site. Not so relevant for a small organization rather than a large.

NL, Put a logo?

JB, To go back to the set up help desk thing, maybe we should set or go back to this thing, and put up something about a large corporation.

HBj, Maybe we could put up stars of asterisk to indicate that this appropriate to a large corp.

AA, Some of these things would only apply to several floors, and across a country, or international. Maybe just a notice board with a pin on a bulletin board. If they are a full development company which are often only a dozen people. They would put that as one of their market differentiation of this.

JB, Let¹s go on through this. Then go back and go over one time.

NL, Must tell managers why this will generate revenue and get a buy in. Also web developers need to understand and that managers would understand.

AA, Should we split this into two?

NL, Yes split into two.

HBj, That might link to the auxiliary benefits. That once we are done with this, so that Natasha would do a second draft so that it was less like an outline, a little more written up, work on merging into one of our documents here. Look at some of the links.

HBj, Goodnight.

JB, Goodnight. Provide project management and guidelines?

NL, We have developed tools which they would use to help them. Developers. Gets reports from the about the status from the developers, with all the links of the guidelines.

JB, That is great because it creates status reports, develops an on line

checklist, develops database applications.

AA, Some stump points?

JB, Merge with tracking, summarize lessons from phase one.

AA, This is the first time to mention phase one?

NL, There will always a phase one. You need to think about lessons.

AA, Always on going maintenance.

JB, Name as phase one here?

AA, Yes! Make adjustment to the next pages.

JB, I share the comment I was going to explicitly identify stage one, and two. Identify accessibility requirement and made binding to the contracts. We have done our first pass. I¹ve made a lot of notes in the change log. Let¹s go back and flag these for going back over. If we were to say which items apply to large organizations. Are we in agreement about this? AA, if you could fill in for HBj, about sensitivity about large organization versus small in how things sounds.

AA, All the bullet points under number five would apply to small or large company.

JB, Officer or person responsible. Start at the team place.

AA, It could be the accessibility office for large organizations.

JB, A team would be required and need within that a lot of responsibilities.Allocated.

AA, Create a table.

JB, Small medium and large sized company let¹s just say. A team would be required for a large or medium sized company. Would this work?

NL, yeah,

DS, Yeah,

AA, All the points would apply to all organizations to every size.

NL, Make a statement like HBj, use their judgement that they must to use these ideas.

JB, I will record for number five; add for medium and large organizations a team may be required for that. So Natasha, you didn¹t mean that we didn¹t¹ need this statement?

NL, No,

JB, A major milestone. Anything radically inappropriate?

NL, Maybe it is such a small website. Doesn¹t apply.

AA, So small doesn¹t mean the same thing. Maybe tidy, or a-prompt.

JB, Maybe add for major milestone also clarify some points may apply to larger companies.

AA, Works for me.

JB, Closing question or reflections about where this document will fit in? We have continued to have some vagueness. The sample examples on the web page. Looks nothing what we want it to look. In the change log would indicate that this becomes an outline. Your document would become the main page for this, replaces the corporate sample. That still needs work also. Another possibility. Document proliferation reduces the chances of finding these things. Where does this live? Where to merge?

AA, I think we need to think through of where this belongs. Right now it fits between the top-level page, and Carlos¹ page. Whether we want to roll it into the top-level page. There is a lot of detail.

JB, My memory is fairly clear. Look at the longest sections that are replaced by very robust appendices. One replacement is on evaluation. The intent was to strip this down to an outline.

NL, May I ask a question. Who is the audience? Is this for the general public?

JB, This was thought of as part of a resource suite.

NL, On the first WAI page under resources?

JB, Eventually any document will show up on an annotated list of resources. The resources page has many groups represented there.

NL, If I was trying to point this out it couldn¹t be found.

JB, We would move it from here and listed on the resources page.

AA, Lots of processes.

NL, I am just trying to understand.

JB, We have far fewer process requirements. No meeting on Friday this week. We are having a staff retreat a meeting. We will meet next Friday the 13teenth.

NL, I will be on vacation. For that meeting

Last updated 4 October 2001 by Judy Brewer (jbrewer@w3.org)

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