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EOWG Minutes, July 27, 2001


Outdate Updates

Andrew: sent an out reach update to the list.

Chuck LeTourneau: Starling access services, will be continuing, sending courses to other organization

Business Benefits of Web Accessibility

Judy: And on Web Site appendix, When I review I had a print problem, couldn't print. Crashing and need to fix. Running opera.

Andrew Running in opera now. I'll check later.

Judy general comments?

Chuck I found two spelling mistakes, which I will send to Andrew? Introductory sentences and paragraph need work. I will send to the list. (see email Chuck sends).

William I have trouble with number 4. Enhanced image of social responsibility. Image rather than being socially responsible.

Andrew probably right but the image is the important thing in business.

Judy Increase social responsibility?

William as long as it gets away from image

Sheela I would like to change the wording about image and altruistically.

William the text under that is not bad. I would like to get in there and clarify social responsibility means.

Andrew this is the area which I was struggling with.

Sheela maybe that is all you say. I'm concerned about the "caring" attitude quote. Making a clear statement about social responsibility is all we need. Drop altruistic, caring attitude, and image.

Judy I think this is good discussion. Andrew enough to work this out?

Andrew yes.

Judy I think that we should be wordsmithing at this stage -- note areas, then follow up offline. What other things that really jumps out at you about the appendix?

Andrew can I ask a question about comfortable with clear context.

Doyle reads from his suggestion about clear content

Judy advocates that emails ought to be sent to the list when you are contributing a thought to the list, everybody thinking together. Keeps us talking and working together.

William missing from the Semantic indexing through RDF processes. The fact it is being indexed.

Harvey by index you mean recalling appropriate information?

William the conventions of for example using the first paragraph as the topic. Those kinds of things that tend to get overlooked but when one considers semantics is enhanced.

Judy What else jumps out at us? Andrew any other?

Andrew at the top about demographics putting them in. At this stage I don't know if we are advanced enough to include that.

Judy it would be nice to not point to a non existing appendix.

Andrew the increased market shares to non-disabled people. Demographics about disabled stats, and other disadvantaged. A significant part of the audience may be disabled.

William that means increasing market share. A part of that sometimes gets neglected without the multiplier affect. The network of people affected. The number of advocates is a multiple.

Judy that doesn't affect buying. Be a little more explicit? Where does this go?

William I am suggesting the demographics indicate one can increase the market,

Judy lets look at the intro to the increased. The subhead looks a little weird. Would it make sense to add usability but this section is non-disabled stuff.

William In addition to these benefits you have many additional people.

Judy I think that is where the problem is. Does anyone have a comment?

Under increased market share. Need a little demographic section there.

Harvey with reference to the detail.

Andrew we don't have an intro paragraph.

Judy why don't you try that as a starter. An intro line would be helpful there.

Andrew ok.

Judy While we are on the market piece. It is hard for me to fit conceptually under increased market share.

Doyle I think it does have a market share impact.

Judy send something to us.

Harvey I don't like the statement about clear as possible is going to work. In section two the third primary bullet.

Judy We have used as clear as appropriate.

Harvey I would be happy to throw out the first comment in that section.

Judy could Andrew you play with that getting rid of the comment?

Andrew yes.

Judy I want to go back to the top. First at the top I notice in the suite nav bar, which takes it out of the appendix class. I am thinking if we do this each appendix is going to yield an unwieldy situation. This makes the resource suite unwieldy.

Andrew I put that there because it would promote the discussion.

Judy we want to flag for further visiting. Tighten up the social responsibility. If I look at the document as a whole, have a word count. Then take out what I can. Only need fifty to sixty percent of those words.

Andrew I was expanding from last weeks. I'll have a go at cutting it back again.

William cut out the first sentence in the intro.

Judy lets do that online. Then have a critique.

Going down again. Section two something happening with bullets. Clear and consistent nav. Taking a paragraph and turning it into outline. The result is a summary in the bullets could be moved into the first sentence.

Andrew turns the bullets into a paragraph.

Judy it is nice it is broken out. Readable as bulleted list.

It looks like you had a question about reduced liability. Want feedback on this? I would say this section is adequate to throw out.

Judy. Andrew Use WAI not WCAG. Use the sentence in the language of the document.

William I agree with that. The concept has to be there but isn't. that language about liability not the cost, the implication, reduces liability, indicates cost rather than spending time talking to lawyers.

Judy lets look at the table. The small type. The font is small in one browser but not another. I would like to avoid the fine print phenomena.

Andrew I have applied the font size smaller because of necessity in use in the table.

Judy I use font size="90%" works better than "smaller"

Judy where does social responsibility.

Andrew doesn't fit.

William you would need to tabularize it.

Judy for many companies the reason they engage in social responsibility, this would affect market share. Even when the CEO and everyone would not do it any other way. The images of social responsibility.

William column header?

Andrew doesn't work

Judy even if it is not a table. You end up needing to reflect social responsibility in this section. You could put the increase social responsibility. In a box at the bottom. Not as many rows and columns.

William should be in benefits matrix somehow. Left out value of stock, a lot of people based upon social responsibility.

Judy 12.5% of market is invested in soc responsibility.

Andrew I'll struggle to use social responsibility in stock market value, but I like it.

There is a link at the bottom.

Andrew and I talked about breaking this section (with Jean Marie) apart. No point to break until we get to the point that the table is not going to change.

Judy we are fairly close to being fairly circulatable.

Five volunteers to look from top to toe and get it ready.

Harvey put it through spell check.

Judy. Harvey Doyle Chuck, William. Carlos.

Andrew when is the next time to take a whack at this?

Andrew I will be away next week

Judy goes through this version. And then get to Andrew by...?

Andrew at end of Wednesday.

Judy need substitute for William.

Sheela. By next Wednesday.

Look for funky items. Put comments to the list.

Carlos nested lists places where they aren't necessary and confusing.

Judy give us an example?

Andrew I see what you are driving at but I wonder if it would lose scan ability. Those little single bullets.

Judy what if you bolded them?

Andrew it is different style from the rest of the document.

Andrew I see what Carlos is getting at.

Judy Ready for another appendix?

Sylvie I always hear an html between descriptions. I read a strange code, ten semi-colon.

Judy anybody have any ideas.

Andrew can I read out the summary. (Reads columns)

Chuck I see number sign semi colon.

Judy Sylvie thanks for raising this.Evaluating web sites? Andrew, a thought for coordination. Take the list items and grab them from change requests, and send them back marked as done like in the change log. If you get inspired. Try doing that on previous sections.

Evaluating Web Sites

Judy The background. I have completed the change log from last time. Filled out some additional sections. I deleted what I could. I noted one or two things for discussion. Move toward review in the next few days. From change log every thing is done.

I strengthened the cautions. Cautions read…need we say anything more in the cautions.

Andrew we don't want to frighten them off.

William you are almost saying don't bother with this.

Judy this looks rather negative?

Andrew yep.

Judy why don't we look at the other sections.

Review of the sections.

William before you throw away the title. This is one of the most called for things questions to answer. I don't think this classifies as an appendix. This has an impact like an important document rather than a referral or appendix.

William it doesn't change everything. Our attitude here shifts.

Judy lets move on to the table of contents. Drop the appendix at the top in the change log. The paragraph should be nested. Intro, …special evals. Three little breakout things. Anyone object to that restructuring?

What are in those sections are special tips. Evaluation section is the core of the document and we don't want to get rid of.

I would like to try it out and look at it. We have just 40 minutes to look at this.

In the intro section. I removed as much unnecessary words as possible. I restructured the presentation of that. Intro?

Chuck on preliminary review sounds a little negative. Prelim can be very useful to identify the scope of problems on a web site. That is what we do on our web site eval is a preliminary

Judy lets take out "very".

Judy I did not put in the country specific thing in the prelim Select a represent sample. We didn't try to include everything. These should be numbered the five-browser tricks.

I rolled together the questions we had in the browser section.

William what are the five most common questions.

Harvey I would delete the five. Everyone will have his or her own set.

William why five not three or eleven.

Judy to try to establish a working minimum. Lets drop the number out.

Judy is the first line ok?

Andrew it sounds right. Finding a homepage or what have you.

Judy lets stay on the sampling thing. I want to include the top page almost. The things that people forget which are obvious. What about adding the entry page. Flash screen.

Jean Marie two item in the evaluation section to use the site without the mouse. Add into the preliminary review.

Judy people in favor using tabs without mouse. (agreement)

William important to tab through the links?

Judy lets leave the preliminary section open here. Tighten up in the evaluation section.

William use of voice browser and lynx go together.

Judy is equivalent information available? Logical order.

Harvey wave is up again.

Judy I'll put in these are samples.

Harvey I would not put Bobby first on the list.

Judy we have been using Bobby

Andrew I have been using Wave as the first choice.

Harvey it is so saturated that you can't get Bobby.

Judy lets move on. Evaluation. What is in this? My first step to essentially a first step two different scopes. One thing might be the entire web site. Identify a page selection and all top pages or entry pages to the site. Is referenced throughout this. A defined term. Reactions?

Andrew pretty much the way we work. Occasionally this part of the site?

If you are going to exclude quite clear that it is being excluded. Including clarification about justification about this.

Judy a disclosure issue then.

Second semi-automatic, I start with evaluators. Run on the page selection. Should I put math evaluators in?

William would add tidy to everything.

Judy does any of the others run on more than one page at time.

William if you send a whole URI it will do the whole site.

Judy if HTML tidy will do the whole site, we want to sweep the site with one of the following.

Judy optional runs one validation sweep across the whole site. A note some of these tools can be used to sweep entire sites. This might be an option.

Good news next Wednesday is our next meeting. We need more discussions on the list.

William this is ready to be reviewed I think now.

Judy I am not expert at evaluating. I want to make sure before sending out and it can be quoted.

Harvey, Jean Marie, Doyle, Andrew Sheela. For the Wednesday meeting.

Next teleconference meeting August 1

August 1, 2001, same time, 4:00 - 5:30 pm US EDT,
Phone: 617-252-7000

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