Minutes from AUWG telecon, 7 April 2003
Attendance
hk Hazel Kennedy
jt Jutta Treviranus
jr Jan Richards
br Bob Regan
pj Phill Jenkins
mm Matt May
Minutes
Comments on CSUN draft
jr: Overview of changes:
jr: New definition of "authoring tool" was added with the suggested edits from the WG. Added to the front and to the glossary.
jr: Made changes to rationale based on Jutta's comments.
jr: 1.3 and 1.4 were flipped so that the old 1.3 could be closer to 1.5. New 1.4 and 1.5 both have to do with structure.
jt: Some confusion on the scope of these. Was that resolved?
jr: Competing rationales in 1.5.
jt: Both are structure. One is about moving around in the structure, and the other is about being able to edit it.
jr: I'd say using structure to edit is 1.5.
jt: Reason I stated it the way we did was that we were excluding editability. That's why I put it under edit structure. I can see putting it under navigation. But then do we want to work on the wording of the checkpoint?
br: On 1.5, what is the background? I think that it's requiring Word's outline feature
jt: Or XMetal's outline feature.
jr: Dreamweaver's search function, allowing users to jump to a certain element.
br: That's a lower threshold than collapse and expand functionality.
jr: Search functionality pretty much allows that.
pj: You can't edit the structure while navigating. Does that mean you can just edit the structure tags?
jr: Yes.
jt: At CSUN, there was the general idea that we had a structure view.
jr: If we were to require that, it'd be in 1.5.
jt: What makes content accessible to the author is eliminating the unwieldiness of document structure.
br: Take Flash. No underlying structure to the document. There are multiple views to the content. But the scripting pane doesn't describe the structure of the document. It doesn't have structure per se.
jt: Trying to address the through-a-straw view of editing. How does someone with a screen reader edit things?
jr: Not talking just about collapsing the document.
jr: Want to know delineation into something meaningful.
pj: Can mark a block in an editor, for example. You should be able to mark an item, cut from one point, move to another and paste.
jt: How to select a chunk, navigate and manipulate by structure.
mm: Like the Flash object model.
br: In Flash, the closest to this is the Movie Explorer. But that's more of an OO model.
pj: In Visual Studio, there are similar things. Manipulating items from a list.
br: Other tools that allow authors to navigate through the structure.
pj: In PowerPoint, you can manage clip art, for example.
jr: You can link and group items like this, including code objects.
jt: So we need to be able to group things and be able to copy/paste them. What would we have to deal with that doesn't have inherent structure?
br: GIF editor?
pj: Text-based HTML editor.
br: Need to think about all authors creating WCAG-compliant content.
jt: This is about PWDs using the authoring tool, not WCAG. Guideline 1 only addresses the author's needs.
pj: I think we know the ways to do this. We just need to capture that in the document.
pj: Probably want to keep these together to make sure that conformance is dependent on doing both.
pj: If this is already in your product, it's a P1 to make it accessible. If it's not, it's a P2 to add.
br: Question is, how long do you have before you have to go for P2? May cause tool vendors to look for loopholes.
pj: Social Security, for example, are throwing out things that technically meet 508 but are still unusable.
br: It's easier if it's written down. Where we can close loopholes, we should.
jt: Agreed to collapse these two checkpoints?
AGREED: Collapse 1.4 and 1.5 into one checkpoint
jt: We should have a definition for "structure". We're using it quite liberally.
pj: What if it doesn't have structure, but has a search?
jr: It would pass (part of) 1.6, but not the new combined checkpoint.
jt: Difference is that one deals with navigating the structure, and the other deals with navigating the content.
pj: Does Dreamweaver have views?
br: Yes. Now, what about Notepad? If someone searched on <H1>, would that be sufficient?
pj: I think what it needs is that other view.
jr: Authors need help on navigating structures.
jr: "...navigate the structure and make structure-based edits..." in 1.4. Remove 1.5.
Budapest meeting
jt: Talking about meeting during the conference itself. Everyone has something happening in Dev Day on the 24th. Can rent a suite for the meeting.
br: Commitment in Lisbon on 23rd. Can meet when I'm not talking at Dev Day.
mm: Dinner Friday night?
pj: Yes. Might want to have a BOF meeting to get others involved while there.