Chatlog 2009-06-24

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13:44:26 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #xhtml
13:44:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-xhtml-irc
13:44:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:44:28 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #xhtml
13:44:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
13:44:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:44:31 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
13:44:31 <trackbot> Date: 24 June 2009
13:45:01 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Jun/0015.html
13:45:19 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: aGENDA: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Jun/0015.html
13:45:48 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Jun/0015
13:46:10 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
13:46:17 <Zakim> +Markus
13:47:11 <Zakim> +McCarron
13:47:42 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
13:47:42 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:47:43 <Zakim> +Steven
13:50:56 <Steven> Regrets: Alessio
13:52:59 <Tina> Zakim, code?
13:52:59 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Tina
13:53:38 <Zakim> +Tina
13:53:48 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
13:54:03 <Steven> Topic: The issues
13:54:04 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues
13:55:25 <Steven> Subtopic: @name
13:55:26 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE
13:55:59 <Steven> Steven: I believe this is dealt with
13:56:11 <Steven> Subtopic: Informative references
13:56:23 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE1
13:56:48 <Steven> Steven: I believe also dealt with
13:57:43 <Steven> Subtopic: 5th Ed
13:57:44 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE2
13:57:55 <Steven> Shane: We had agreed we couldn't do that
13:58:01 <Steven> Steven: Yes, it is deliberate
13:58:19 <Steven> Subtopic: SotD
13:58:20 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE3
14:00:40 <Steven> Steven: This is a typo s/A/C/
14:00:50 <Steven> ACTION: Shane to fix the SotD to refer to Appx C
14:00:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-87 - Fix the SotD to refer to Appx C [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-07-01].
14:01:24 <Steven> Subtopic: Appx C
14:01:25 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE4
14:02:13 <Steven> Steven: This was always an informative appx, meant to advise on practise, and moving it to a note is much more suitable for such information
14:02:23 <Steven> Shane: We need to update that note
14:02:28 <Steven> Steven: That's the whole point
14:03:11 <Steven> Steven: Because people were assuming Appx C was normative, and because it was part of the TR, only made for problems
14:03:21 <Steven> ... since it made it difficult to update
14:03:37 <Steven> Shane: Bjoern is one of the worst offenders in taking this appx as gospel
14:04:03 <Steven> Subtopic: Broken links and xml:lang
14:04:04 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE5
14:04:31 <Steven> Steven: He should have talked to us
14:04:45 <Steven> Shane: I put the anchors back
14:05:22 <Steven> ... they go to a pointer to the new doc, which has the same anchors, so it is easy for him to update his document
14:06:09 <Steven> Steven: We don't say that it's compulsory to use both lang and xml:lang
14:06:30 <Steven> Shane: True, though we can still update the doc
14:06:42 <Steven> ACTION: Shane to update use of lang and xml:lang
14:06:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-88 - Update use of lang and xml:lang [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-07-01].
14:07:14 <Steven> Subtopic: Lack of nesting rules
14:07:26 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE6
14:08:34 <Steven> Steven: Not true. He's wrong/ We use exclusions in the formal definitions of the modules
14:09:07 <Steven> Shane: Is this a new issue, or one he has mentioned before?
14:09:17 <Steven> Steven: He doesn't include a link...
14:09:32 <Steven> Subtopic: No nesting rules for Ruby
14:09:42 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE7
14:11:16 <Steven> Steven: We just reference the Ruby spec
14:11:32 <Steven> ... which includes the exclusions.
14:11:36 <Steven> ... So he's wrong
14:12:15 <Steven> Subtopic: Issue 9
14:12:17 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE8
14:13:27 <Steven> Steven: One of his URIs is broken. Need to work out what he is talking about
14:14:18 <Steven> ... maybe about the name attribute
14:15:04 <Steven> ... it's this one: http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/voyager-issues/XHTML-1.0-SE?user=guest;selectid=6504;statetype=-1;upostype=-1;changetype=-1;restype=-1
14:15:31 <Steven> ... which is the same as the issue 1 above
14:15:57 <Steven> Subtopic: References
14:15:57 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE9
14:16:11 <Steven> Steven: I think this has been addressed
14:16:13 <Steven> Shane: It has
14:16:32 <Steven> Subtopic: DOCTYPE Optional
14:16:33 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE10
14:16:40 <Steven> Shane: What do you want to do?
14:17:09 <Steven> Shane: This was TimBL's idea. I disagree with optional DOCTYPEs myself
14:17:27 <Steven> Steven: What do we do?
14:17:40 <Steven> Shane: Change it back
14:17:54 <Steven> Steven: OK by me
14:18:38 <Steven> Steven: He calls this a process violation
14:18:59 <Steven> Steven: Change back?
14:19:04 <Steven> Shane: Sure
14:19:21 <Steven> ACTION: Shane to make doctype required
14:19:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-89 - Make doctype required [on Shane McCarron - due 2009-07-01].
14:19:46 <Steven> Subtopic: @version
14:19:47 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE12
14:20:30 <Steven> Shane: We don't require it
14:20:36 <Steven> ... it is in HTML4 and XHTML 1.0
14:21:34 <Steven> ... and deprecation isn't a problem; you can reprecate
14:21:46 <Steven> ... but what change would he like to make?
14:21:54 <Steven> Steven: True, not actually an issue in that case
14:22:47 <Steven> Subtopic: Change not mentioned
14:23:13 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE13
14:23:50 <Steven> Shane: Modualrization widened the datatype of @version to CDATA
14:24:02 <Steven> ... so in RDFa we used something more friendly
14:24:56 <Steven> ... Not sure which change he is referring to...
14:25:09 <Steven> Steven: We should investigate if there is a case to mention this
14:25:34 <Steven> ... I'm not convinced this really is a change in the sense he means it
14:26:01 <Steven> Subtopic: @lang
14:26:02 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2009/bjoern-issues.html#ISSUE14
14:27:00 <Steven> Steven: He points to a message from someone outside the group and claims that that is our reason
14:27:04 <Steven> ... but it's not
14:27:19 <Steven> Shane: It is not a reason, it is a cause
14:27:47 <Steven> Steven: We asked accessibility people if it would help and they said yes
14:30:11 <Zakim> -McCarron
14:30:35 <Steven> Shane: I have to leave now
14:37:08 <Zakim> -Markus
14:37:09 <Zakim> -Tina
14:37:12 <Zakim> -Steven
14:37:13 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
14:37:14 <Zakim> Attendees were Markus, McCarron, Steven, Tina
14:37:23 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
14:37:30 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:37:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-xhtml-minutes.html Steven
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