ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content?

do regions scroll their flowed content?

State:
CLOSED
Product:
TTML 1.0
Raised by:
Mike Dolan
Opened on:
2012-09-27
Description:
TTML 1.0 is silent about the presentation processor behavior when text is flowed into a region and exceeds the region boundary due to <br>. One might infer from the silence and the clipping discussion that scrolling does not occur. However, the SDP-US Example 5 implies that regions scroll - the region is named "rollup" and the body text says "this could go on all day". If regions do not in fact scroll, then a "roll-up" example would need to be constructed very differently.

TTML 1.0 region behavior needs to be clarified when the flowed text exceeds the region boundary; and depending on the answer, the SDP-US Example 5 corrected.
Related Actions Items:
Related emails:
  1. Minutes - 2013-07-18 (from glenn@skynav.com on 2013-07-18)
  2. Minutes - 2013-06-20 (from glenn@skynav.com on 2013-07-11)
  3. [minutes] Timed Text call June 20, 2013 (from plh@w3.org on 2013-06-27)
  4. Re: TTML Agenda for 20/06/13 -- ADVANCE NOTICE -- (from tai@irt.de on 2013-06-19)
  5. TTML Agenda for 20/06/13 -- update -- (from Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com on 2013-06-19)
  6. Re: TTML Agenda for 20/06/13 -- ADVANCE NOTICE -- (from glenn@skynav.com on 2013-06-19)
  7. Re: TTML Agenda for 20/06/13 -- ADVANCE NOTICE -- (from tai@irt.de on 2013-06-19)
  8. Re: TTML Agenda for 20/06/13 -- ADVANCE NOTICE -- (from glenn@skynav.com on 2013-06-18)
  9. Re: TTML Agenda for 20/06/13 -- ADVANCE NOTICE -- (from glenn@skynav.com on 2013-06-18)
  10. TTML Agenda for 20/06/13 -- ADVANCE NOTICE -- (from Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com on 2013-06-17)
  11. TTWG Agenda March 7, 2013 (from momartin@microsoft.com on 2013-03-07)
  12. Re: TTML Agenda for 28/2/13 (from glenn@skynav.com on 2013-02-28)
  13. RE: TTML Agenda for 28/2/13 (from mdolan@newtbt.com on 2013-02-28)
  14. TTML Agenda for 28/2/13 (from momartin@microsoft.com on 2013-02-28)
  15. TTML Agenda for 21/02/13 (from Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com on 2013-02-21)
  16. TTML Agenda for 14/02/13 (from Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com on 2013-02-14)
  17. TTML Agenda for 07/02/13 (from Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com on 2013-02-07)
  18. RE: TTML Agenda for 28/11/12 (from mdolan@newtbt.com on 2012-11-29)
  19. TTML Agenda for 28/11/12 (from Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com on 2012-11-29)
  20. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from momartin@microsoft.com on 2012-11-17)
  21. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from mdolan@newtbt.com on 2012-11-15)
  22. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com on 2012-11-15)
  23. TTWG Meeting Minutes Nov 15, 2012 (from momartin@microsoft.com on 2012-11-15)
  24. TTML Agenda for 1/11/12 (from Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com on 2012-11-01)
  25. RE: Proposal for Action-110 related to Issue-189 (from momartin@microsoft.com on 2012-10-25)
  26. RE: Proposal for Action-110 related to Issue-189 (from Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com on 2012-10-18)
  27. Proposal for Action-110 related to Issue-189 (from momartin@microsoft.com on 2012-10-18)
  28. RE: Proposal for Action-110 related to Issue-189 (from mdolan@newtbt.com on 2012-10-17)
  29. Re: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-10-11)
  30. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from mdolan@newtbt.com on 2012-10-10)
  31. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from momartin@microsoft.com on 2012-10-10)
  32. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from mdolan@newtbt.com on 2012-10-10)
  33. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from John.Birch@screensystems.tv on 2012-10-01)
  34. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com on 2012-09-29)
  35. Re: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-09-29)
  36. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from mdolan@newtbt.com on 2012-09-28)
  37. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from John.Birch@screensystems.tv on 2012-09-28)
  38. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from mdolan@newtbt.com on 2012-09-28)
  39. RE: Detangling Action-102 and Action-103 (from momartin@microsoft.com on 2012-09-28)
  40. Re: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-09-28)
  41. Re: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from glenn@skynav.com on 2012-09-28)
  42. RE: ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from mdolan@newtbt.com on 2012-09-27)
  43. RE: Detangling Action-102 and Action-103 (from mdolan@newtbt.com on 2012-09-27)
  44. Detangling Action-102 and Action-103 (from momartin@microsoft.com on 2012-09-27)
  45. ISSUE-189: do regions scroll their flowed content? [DFXP 1.0] (from sysbot+tracker@w3.org on 2012-09-27)

Related notes:

TTWG Oct 4: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/04-tt-minutes.html
Relates to Action-109 to create examples in TTML 1.0: https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/109
Relates to Action-110 to update example in SDP-US: https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/110

Monica Martin, 4 Oct 2012, 16:04:27

TTWG Oct 18: http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-tt-minutes.html

Proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0032.html

Mike Dolan commented http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Oct/0032.html

Monica Martin, 18 Oct 2012, 19:11:06

For SDP-US
TTWG Oct 25 resolved to remove example 5 in SDP-US. Reference to TTML 1.0 SE, add note in SDP-US. Issue-189 will result in changes to TTML 1.0 SE.

http://www.w3.org/2012/10/25-tt-minutes.html

Monica Martin, 30 Oct 2012, 19:08:32

Removed comment 5. Did not add a note due to lack of spec ready text.

See http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/rev/fa62712e44f7.

Glenn Adams, 12 Nov 2012, 17:02:53

TTWG Nov 15: http://www.w3.org/2012/11/15-tt-minutes.html

TTML 1.0 SE
Place Dolan example in clean TTML document that has been validated and provide screen shot for editor to include in TTML 1.0 SE.

SDP-US
Add preamble text for R0047 that points to TTML 1.0 SE and this update example: See example on scrolling described in TTML 1.0 Second Edition.

Monica Martin, 15 Nov 2012, 23:14:55

I disagree about the premise of this issue: that TTML 1.0 is silent about overflow. The behavior is perfectly well defined and explicitly so in TTML 1.0 Section 8.2.15 tts:overflow. Specifically, the following language is supplied: "If the value of this attribute is visible, then content should not be clipped outside of the affected region, and region composition and layout must be performed as if the region's width and height were unconstrained, but with a well-defined origin. If the value is hidden, then content should be clipped outside of the affected region."

It is not clear if a further example is need to reinforce this text. If so, it is not clear where to place the example supplied by [1].

[1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Nov/0029.html

Glenn Adams, 29 Nov 2012, 06:04:02

TTWG Nov 29: http://www.w3.org/2012/11/29-tt-minutes.html

Agreed to:
1. Put in separate appendix in TTML 1.0 SE and use updated example from Sean Hayes and commented by Michael Dolan: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2012Nov/0029.html.
Put a shell if nothing else after Section 1.2.
2. Reference from SDP-US - preamble to R0047 that references TTML 1.0 SE. Add #displayAlign feature.

Monica Martin, 2 Dec 2012, 23:17:35

Added appendix M to TTML10SE in order to provide worked out examples of caption styles [1].
Did not add preamble to R0047 because it is not clear what the relation is between this newly added appendix and R0047. Did not add #displayAlign feature as not certain about which edit tasks are required, whether supports is required for all values {before, after, center} or just {before, after}.

[1] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/rev/40a560b280a1

Glenn Adams, 6 Dec 2012, 07:52:18

#displayAlign has been added to SDP-US. See: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html

Update Example 5 if needed.

Monica Martin, 30 Jan 2013, 20:38:08

there is no longer an "overflow: scroll"; see also note at end of 9.3.2

Glenn Adams, 2 May 2013, 05:29:58

[plh]: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#semantics-region-layout-step-1

20 Jun 2013, 14:46:47

Changelog:

Created issue 'do regions scroll their flowed content?' nickname owned by Mike Dolan on product DFXP 1.0, description 'TTML 1.0 is silent about the presentation processor behavior when text is flowed into a region and exceeds the region boundary due to <br>. One might infer from the silence and the clipping discussion that scrolling does not occur. However, the SDP-US Example 5 implies that regions scroll - the region is named "rollup" and the body text says "this could go on all day". If regions do not in fact scroll, then a "roll-up" example would need to be constructed very differently.

TTML 1.0 region behavior needs to be clarified when the flowed text exceeds the region boundary; and depending on the answer, the SDP-US Example 5 corrected.
' non-public

Mike Dolan, 27 Sep 2012, 15:15:06

Status changed to 'open'

Monica Martin, 4 Oct 2012, 16:11:27

Status changed to 'pending review'

Glenn Adams, 2 May 2013, 05:29:58

Status changed to 'closed'

20 Jun 2013, 14:49:21


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