<laura> Scribe: Laura
<alastairc> Noting progress: https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG21/Techniques/#changelog
AC: making good progress with
techniques.
... Now we have a change log.
... we have 10 new ones.
... next updat will be Friday.
... Need new ones now.
... Have a handful that need +1’s
AC: don’t want details now but
overview.
... need some +1s
... setting role=img on icon fonts
... for low vision
AC: The objective of this
technique is to show how to semantically identify an element
that uses a font to create an icon.
... Some low vision users need user stylesheets, scripts, or
extensions to override the fonts on a page to perceive text
content.
... only practical way at the moment to do this.
... speak now if you have any major issues.
... 531 is the topic
... please read it and comment or give it a +1
AC: one of detlev’s
... sufficient technique.
<alastairc> Preview: https://raw.githack.com/w3c/wcag/tech-hover-focus-hoverable/techniques/general/tech-hover-focus-hoverable.html
AC: maybe simplify the
desciption. Seems reasonable.
... any comments on procedure?
... please read it and comment or give it a +1
AC: from andrew.
... is concise.
... maybe tidy up the description
<Detlev> Not easy to understand: "check that the controls can be set to allow checks one and two to be true."
AC: procedure is straight forward.
katie: comment on
description.
... instance of a wall display.
... there are other examples that we may not me thinking
of.
... make sure it is not lmited to one example.
JA: low vision may have an example.
AC: landscape example would be useful.
detlev: procedure “Open the content in ..” why split it?
AC: add a comment.
detlev: failure if it doesn’t immediately respond?
brooks: how do we account for the exception?
AC: wish awk was here.
<jon_avila> I agree that we would have to build the exception language into the technique
david: build it into the language
or drop the failure.
... don’t know of previous tech that had and exception in a
failure.
jf: would make it a success tech.
david: think we are okay not to mention it.
ac: should be in a wcag manual
:-)
... has to be outside the failure.
david: passing would be the
exception.
... it is confusing.
ac: useful example that a tech doesn’t need to be huge.
AC: I wrote it over the weekend.
AC: focused on simpler end of the
scale.
... Description is short.
... inked to appropriate resources.
... Procedure 5 steps.
... questions or comments?
(none)
MG: I gave it a +1
... suggest saying the one that “does not meet” have that in a
caption.
... telephone icon okay?
... yes
AC: will update
detlev: maybe remove the last
example.
... focus on good examples.
<gowerm> I like having the borderline example
AC: including it as a worse case
good example
... dangerous territory. muddy the waters.
... applies to pattered backgrounds.
<Detlev> ok, fair enough..
ac: need to build on the understanding doc.
<gowerm> I HATE gradients, but I realize that this is another one of those 'if you are going to do gradients anyway, here's how to verify'
leave comments an +1s in the issue
AC: this is our todo list
... need volunteers.
anyone know about: “Failure: Using autocomplete for non-user specific examples “
detlev: example on booking
flights. autocomplete for others that don’t apply to the
user.
... confusing for authors.
... take off the autocomplete?
... not sure what out advice should be.
brooks: yes. Issue I brought
up.
... lots of inputs for others than the user themself.
ac: failure case?
jf: hear the confusion.
... html5 doesn’t prescribe.
... nothing happens it you download a new browser.
... not in scope
<alastairc> Wondering if we need to add an issue to the webplat tracker? Can they clarify the usage of autocomplete? (with context from our sc)
jf: data related to other family
members we can be sure of.
... attribute is for the user.
... it is out of scope.
<Detlev> @JF: so what's the advice to authors in this case regarding the other fields?
<Zakim> gowerm, you wanted to say Example 82 may help discussion
<gowerm> https://www.w3.org/TR/html52/sec-forms.html#sec-autofill
MG: the spec had the idea of
section tokens.
... touches on this. wants someone to pour over the spec.
jf: what happens with the HTML
validator?
... would be a concern?
mg: we don’t have to align with
the validator.
... make sure we are on solid ground.
<jon_avila> We can't fail autocomplete mis-used as it's not covered by the SC.
jf: concerned with a failure that the validator disagrees with
brooks: Confused about
this.
... we don’t have clarity.
<JF> help users understand an input *SCOPED to the user*
brooks: we need more clarity.
jf: hear the concern.
... keep it simple: SCOPED to the user.
... the will reduce confusion.
<Detlev> but authors will still ask how they should tackle fields NOT scoped to the user...
jf: putting autocomplete on
things other than the user would be a failure.
... the spec is weak.
... nonspecific in the scoping.
<Detlev> I thought we don't want a WCAG failure for those cases??
jf: it is information about the
user.
... can we make editorial changes to the understanding doc?
AC: yes.
jf: Should I rewrite?
AC: yes.
JA: I disagree that we can fail
putting autocomplete on something input than the user.
... not applicable.
... it is out of scope. orphan information.
jf: scoping is vague.
AC: we can leave it for the moment. Something to investigate.
jf: there is section dash *
... most UA don’t do anything with it.
AC: need some clarity form the HTML spec
detlev: confusion on how to apply this to inputs other than the user.
scribe change?
scribe: real use case.
jf: need examples.
<jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila
AC: good to add techniques about use of appropriate and inappropriate use.
<laura> AC: useful in understanding doc to address what is appropriate.
<laura> …and unappropriate.
*Laura I can take over scribing
<laura> thanks
JF: could wrap autocomplete off
but could still use autocomplete name or what have you to meet
1.3.5 but turn of complete functionality
... you can tell browser to not fill out form but still use
autocomplete on individual fields.
<Detlev> I would explicitly suggest to cover the case of a page with input areas for several users (the aforementioned travel booking example) - and if it is not clear that the user him/herself comes first I would at the current stat od things PASS a page that does not use autocomplete on any of them
AC: Reflow is next SC
... potential techniques left: reflowing simple data tables.
Jake at TPAC was skeptical if it would work. We might leave
that one for the moment
... another fitting data cells within the width of the
viewport.
... does anyone have CSS skills for tackling that one?
... Might have reasonable coverage. Is anyone aware of things
that people are struggling with?
Detlev: Do we have case of reflow cause disappearance of content such as menu or drop down.
ac: add failure when content has reflowed
<alastairc> JonA: The one I see a lot is video or other pop-up content appearing on top of text. A lot of these don't let you close them until 10 second in. When zoomed in, no way to get rid of it. Zoomed out, doesn't block other content.
<alastairc> JonA: Can send a link around
BN: as viewport gets smaller authors will result to CSS truncation.
AC: probably two cases: disappearing or truncated? Would anyone like to take that on?
<laura> s/description /description /
AC: doesn't necessarily need a working example if it's a failure
<laura> s/lmited /limited /
<scribe> ACTION: Detlev to take it on reflow failure if it a working example is not needed.
<trackbot> Created ACTION-342 - Take it on reflow failure if it a working example is not needed. [on Detlev Fischer - due 2018-12-11].
AC: Need for techniques for
contrasting lines between adjoining colors
... David is assigned to losing content when text styles is
applied
... Detlev covered content on hover or focus
... Asking about character key shortcut which were drafted by
someone on mobile TF but not sure where they are. Who might
know?
<alastairc> AC: Contact Kim
AC: we have draft from Detlev on point gestures. We have a potential failure due to functionality that can be operated by pointer input but not single pointer alone.
Rachael: asking about working
example for 2nd -- will handle failure with text.
... working in document form - in progress.
AC: Status messages is last AA
one. We have a lot published for this. Can't see any other high
priority.
... At AAA. Might be more difficult to do. Straight to Timeout
-- probably text description rather than working examples.
<alastairc> Volunteers for "Provide a warning of the duration of user inactivity at the start of a process."?
AC: Providing a warning of the
duration before the start of a process - any volunteers?
... leave there which people can self assign or let me know so
we don't get duplicate. AC to update spreadsheet.
... Any other comments or questions on techniques?
Detlev: Renew call to look at JavaScript in sufficient technique.
<alastairc> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/543
<david-macdonald> http://davidmacd.com/WCAG/wcag2ict-21-discussion.html
DM: Made a pass at reviewing it. Need to get other eyes to look at.
MG: Had filled in the survey.
AC: May need to get into some sort of draft.
AC: Anything else people want to
raise? Comment/question?
... Look at spreadsheet and consider taking one and take one
and draft something. Thank you.
<alastairc> trackbot end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.154 of Date: 2018/09/25 16:35:56 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: Irssi_ISO8601_Log_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/updat/update/ Succeeded: s/commnet /comment / FAILED: s/desciption /description / Succeeded: s/desciption /description / FAILED: s/lmited /limited / Succeeded: s/immediatly /immediately / Succeeded: s/the laguage or dorp /the language or drop / Succeeded: s/suucess /success / Succeeded: s/doen’t /doesn’t / Succeeded: s/qustions /questions / Succeeded: s/autocmplete /autocomplete / Succeeded: s/doen’t/doesn’t/ Succeeded: s/autocompelte /autocomplete / Succeeded: s/anythin/anything/ Succeeded: s/updatee/update/ Succeeded: s/desciption/description/ Default Present: alastairc, Detlev, Rachael, Laura, Brooks, MichaelC, Mike_Elledge, MarcJohlic, stevelee, gowerm, JF, kirkwood, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Glenda WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: alastairc, stevelee, Skotkjerra, EA, Makoto) Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Present+ alastairc Present: alastairc Detlev Rachael Laura Brooks MichaelC Mike_Elledge MarcJohlic stevelee gowerm JF kirkwood Katie_Haritos-Shea Glenda Regrets: Chuck Bruce Jake Found Scribe: Laura Inferring ScribeNick: laura Found Scribe: jon_avila Inferring ScribeNick: jon_avila Scribes: Laura, jon_avila ScribeNicks: laura, jon_avila Found Date: 04 Dec 2018 People with action items: detlev WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: IRC log location not specified! (You can ignore this warning if you do not want the generated minutes to contain a link to the original IRC log.)[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]