IRC log of wot on 2017-10-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:11:05 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
14:12:24 [kaz]
Meeting: WoT IG - TF-LD
14:12:24 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Danh_Le_Phuoc, Taki_Kamiya
14:12:24 [kaz]
present+ Michael_Koster
14:12:24 [kaz]
present+ Aparna_Thuluva, Darco_Anicic, Victor_Charpenay
14:12:24 [kaz]
present+ Uday_Davuluru
14:12:28 [kaz]
regrets: Dave
14:12:53 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
14:12:58 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:12:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz
14:13:04 [mlefranc]
topic: Proposals for PlugFest - preparation
14:13:17 [kaz]
14:13:24 [mlefranc]
* @kaz: did I declare scribenick properly ?
14:14:07 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: <showing list of thing drescription for plugfest 2017-dusseldorf>
14:14:49 [kaz]
-> TD repo
14:15:17 [kaz]
i/DarkoAnicic:/scribenick: mlefranc/
14:15:30 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:15:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz
14:15:51 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: <shows slide on IoT Schema Layer>
14:16:01 [kaz]
Chair: Darko
14:16:04 [mlefranc]
... datatypes -> interation patterns -> capabilities
14:16:33 [mlefranc]
... datatypes specified in could be reused in different interaction patterns
14:16:44 [mlefranc]
... which could be in turn be reused by different capabilities
14:17:48 [mlefranc]
... as an example, datatype could be temperature data that has unit = degree celsius
14:18:13 [mlefranc]
... interaction pattern could be one of an observable temperature
14:18:19 [mlefranc]
... capability could be a thermostat
14:18:33 [mlefranc]
... <now showing the TemperatureSensing.jsonld document>
14:19:20 [mlefranc]
... for now temperature interaction patterns are written again and again in all documents
14:19:35 [kaz]
[@@@ Darko's slides and example json-ld lateer]
14:20:05 [victor]
JSON-LD examples will be pushed to:
14:20:17 [mlefranc]
... one need a website to navigate in the list of interaction patterns
14:20:36 [mlefranc]
... in the json-ld document one sees that temperature is a property and provide an output data that is a temperature data
14:20:41 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:20:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate kaz
14:21:09 [mlefranc]
... in this case temperature data is a subclass of schema:PropertyValue with datatype float and some temperature unit
14:21:28 [mlefranc]
... also, currently all datatypes are repeated again and again in thing descriptions
14:22:11 [mlefranc]
... the iot:TemperatureUnit datatype is a class, that has for instance iot:Unit and iot:Kelvin
14:22:18 [mlefranc]
... this is defined in Unit.jsonld
14:22:24 [mlefranc]
... and aligned to QUDT
14:22:50 [mlefranc]
... there is iot:reference that links to some ISO standard code, that many in the IoT domain actually use
14:23:52 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: Isn't there a book about a list of units ? (approximate scribing)
14:24:22 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: even Siemens doesn't always rely on real standards for units
14:25:20 [mlefranc]
... there are definitions for capabilities in different ontologies, we are currently investigating this
14:25:40 [mlefranc]
... e.g., Temperature, TargetTemperature, ThermostatTemperature
14:26:07 [kaz]
s/Isn't there a book about a list of units ? (approximate scribing)/possible multiple definitions like book catalogs, e.g., ISBN and other codes/
14:26:31 [mlefranc]
... iot:TargetTemperature has input data a iot:TemperatureData and output data a iot:TemperatureData
14:26:43 [mlefranc]
... <this is in interaction-patterns.jsonld>
14:27:12 [mlefranc]
... then iot:TemperatureData has schema:uniCode, schema:minValue and schema:maxValue that describe what the thermostat accepts
14:28:09 [mlefranc]
... currently the namespace iot is
14:28:22 [mlefranc]
... that contains some datatype definition, interaction patterns, and capabilities
14:28:56 [mlefranc]
... which namespace will be chosen at the end of the day is something we need to discuss further
14:29:13 [mlefranc]
... <looking at Airconditioner.jsonld>
14:29:44 [mlefranc]
... we defined iot:Home and a few interaction patterns for iot:AirConditioner:
14:30:26 [mlefranc]
... iot:SleepMode, iot:CountDown etc.
14:30:36 [kaz]
14:30:40 [kaz]
14:30:44 [kaz]
14:31:03 [mlefranc]
... <these are defined in interaction-patterns.jsonld>
14:31:53 [mlefranc]
... there will probably be many different time data depending on (e.g., if they are defined in hours, minutes,...)
14:32:58 [mlefranc]
kaz: This is one possible example of Thing Description, how can we make sure that Panasonic etc woudn't want their own ?
14:33:10 [mjkoster]
14:33:38 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: Indeed, it's an ongoing effort to create the app level semantics, that we really need for the sem interoperability at the end of the day
14:34:04 [mlefranc]
... need to see with plugfest users if they manage to conform to these proposal.
14:34:47 [mlefranc]
... concern about whether plugfest users will manage to implement these capabilities as described here
14:35:19 [mlefranc]
... I hope yes, now I understand there will be many different interaction patterns
14:35:39 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: different layers of things happening here:
14:35:45 [mlefranc]
... first choose property naming
14:36:03 [mlefranc]
... second how to implement interaction patterns,
14:36:28 [mlefranc]
... we are targeting 99% of device that implemetn interaction patterns the same way
14:36:33 [mlefranc]
... at least for properties
14:36:37 [mlefranc]
... actions will be harder
14:37:22 [mlefranc]
... then a last level of composing capabilities together to create a "super-capability"
14:37:45 [mlefranc]
... a set of common features that certain kind of products share
14:38:05 [mlefranc]
... all of these levels are usefull and we might not want to be too prescriptive there
14:38:16 [mlefranc]
... else users might just use something else
14:38:51 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: yes, <taking example of thing description b36d96.jsonld> --> this td example is very difficult to reuse
14:39:18 [kaz]
-> Matsukura-san's draft document
14:39:20 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: yes, not enough semantic annotations in the td sometimes, which makes them hard to be understood
14:40:28 [kaz]
kaz: agree
14:40:36 [mlefranc]
kaz: where do you think these generic TD descriptions should be hosted with respect to Matsukura-san's types of servients ?
14:40:42 [kaz]
14:41:11 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: where the TD should be hosted ? good question
14:41:41 [kaz]
s/Matsukura-san's types of servients/4 types of servients proposed by Koster and Matsukura/
14:41:42 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: what would be great at the next level: should take one property and one action to do something
14:42:38 [mlefranc]
... a device that discovers a td could then recognize that property interaction pattern because it knows the URI for instance
14:43:32 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: in the discovery process, one could implement some capability search functionality
14:43:58 [mlefranc]
kaz: so generic thing description templates would be hosted in a central repo ?
14:44:19 [kaz]
s/central repo/central TD repo/
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14:44:32 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: could host templates for raw complex templates such as "a generic thermostat"
14:44:42 [mlefranc]
... without specifying the exact capabilities it has
14:44:55 [mlefranc]
... the purpose is to encourage reusability
14:45:04 [kaz]
s/templates would be hosted/could be hosted/
14:45:14 [kaz]
s/repo/repo as a template/
14:45:39 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: another point: how to use these specifications for the plugfest
14:46:08 [mlefranc]
... if one creates something useful for the plugfest user, then how to explain it well and promote it ?
14:46:32 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: ideally, these would be templates that would help someone to create a td for a specific kind of device
14:46:42 [mlefranc]
... a bit like works
14:47:05 [mlefranc]
... if I search for a thermostat, then I would see that it should have a bunch of capabilities,
14:47:34 [mlefranc]
... then I can search for those capabilities, if I'm lucky and I find them, then I can incorporate them in my TD
14:47:53 [mlefranc]
... and would just need to add the links to the actual href where these interactions can be triggered
14:48:16 [mlefranc]
... the point is to help users to browse the capabilities, event, action, properties, and how they go together
14:49:01 [mlefranc]
... help the user combine such templates to ultimately create a TD and upload it in their TD
14:49:14 [mlefranc]
s/in their TD/in their device
14:49:17 [mlefranc]
s/in their TD/in their device/
14:50:04 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: good question whether something like that can be done before the plufest
14:50:31 [mlefranc]
... we may ask during the main call to encourage users to reuse / create those capabilities
14:50:41 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: like the idea of reusable interactions !
14:52:06 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: capabilities have coarse granularity, interesting to provide finer granularity
14:52:19 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: ok for Properties, might be more difficult for Actions
14:52:34 [mlefranc]
... next step would be to make some TDs and annotate them
14:52:40 [mlefranc]
14:52:51 [kaz]
ack k
14:53:28 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: someone else that we could engage in TD development ?
14:55:36 [Karen]
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14:56:09 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: doesn't require a capability to have an instance
14:57:05 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: so far we proposed a model for capabilities that is compliant with our model,
14:57:21 [mlefranc]
... we haven't really thought in dept about reusability/modularity yet
14:57:55 [mlefranc]
mlefranc: would like to work on actual examples where capabilities are shared by different thing descriptions
14:58:08 [mlefranc]
Topic: Namespaces for the TD vocabulary (WoT ontology)
14:58:29 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: for now we have td, rdf, rdfs, xsd,
14:58:33 [mlefranc]
... do we need another namespace ?
14:58:57 [mlefranc]
... this requires looking at TD ontology right now
14:59:49 [mlefranc]
victor: xsd namespace is needed because it appears in the datatype schema definition (minExclusive, etc.)
15:00:31 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: if someone thinks that something is needed or missing w.r.t. namespaces, please discuss the issue on github
15:01:01 [mlefranc]
mjkoster: one might want to look at the protocol binding to include namespace such as the http namespace
15:01:59 [mlefranc]
DarkoAnicic: we will work on the capabilities for the next plugfest
15:02:08 [kaz]
15:02:19 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate kaz
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