13:56:14 RRSAgent has joined #webtv 13:56:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/10/05-webtv-irc 14:01:25 Igarashi has joined #webtv 14:02:30 Present+ Tatsuya_Igarashi 14:02:56 mfoltzgoogle has joined #webtv 14:03:28 johnpallett has joined #webtv 14:03:40 alex_deacon has joined #webtv 14:03:42 jluther has joined #webtv 14:03:45 MarkVickers has joined #webtv 14:04:12 paul has joined #webtv 14:04:53 kaz has joined #webtv 14:07:03 Meeting: Media&Entertainment IG 14:07:31 gmandyam has joined #webtv 14:07:47 present+ gmandyam 14:08:17 present: Chris_Nheedam, Kaz_Ashimura, Chris_O'brien, Giri_Mandyam, Tatsuya_Igarashi, John_Luther, John_Pallett 14:08:41 present+ Paul_Jessop 14:08:47 present+ Mark_Vickers 14:09:41 present+ mfoltzgoogle 14:09:45 cn: tx for joining 14:09:51 ... this is the 2nd call of the group 14:10:18 ... focus on topics every month 14:10:30 Chris_OBrien_AMI_ has joined #webtv 14:10:40 ... contribution to possible new development 14:10:55 ... 2nd screen groups, etc. 14:11:09 ... would like update 14:11:17 cn: BBC in London 14:11:28 ... one of the co-Chairs of the IG 14:11:36 ... also participate in the 2nd screen group 14:11:48 mv: also one of the co-Chairs 14:11:56 ... working in US based in LA 14:12:14 ti: Tatsuya Igarashi from Sony 14:12:20 ... also one of the co-Chairs 14:12:39 cn: next Anssi? 14:12:49 ak: working on DAS group 14:13:05 cn: alex? 14:13:12 ad: Alex Deacon 14:13:12 anssik has joined #webtv 14:13:20 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:13:24 ... primary focus is internet technology and policy 14:13:53 pj: from RIAA 14:14:17 kaz: W3C Team 14:14:22 ... would like to help you all 14:15:05 mark: mark from Google 14:15:11 co: clou 14:15:18 ... cloud browser 14:15:26 gm: qualcomm 14:15:43 ... also representative from ATSC 14:16:29 jr: JW player 14:16:42 s/jr/jl/ 14:16:54 jp: John Pallett from Google 14:17:19 pp: Peter Pogrezeba from DT 14:17:56 cn: any topics other than second screen for today? 14:17:59 (none) 14:18:16 topic: second screen work 14:18:41 ak: introduction 14:18:53 ... framework started from an XG 14:18:55 ... and then CG 14:19:05 ... 2014 API work started by the WG 14:19:13 ... I'm the Chair of the WG and the CG 14:19:21 ... WG defines Web APIs 14:19:31 ... presentation API and remote presentation API 14:19:41 ... CG incubating 14:19:51 ... kind of a big picure 14:19:54 picture 14:20:06 ... Mark has been working on presentation API 14:20:21 kazho has joined #webtv 14:20:31 ... and remote playback by Monir(?) from Google as well 14:20:40 ... spec work and implementation in parallell 14:20:56 ... Google, Mozilla and Apple 14:21:08 ... participating in the group 14:21:23 ... 60 participants 14:21:35 ... great to have this joint discussion here 14:21:54 ... proposal to have joint meeting during TPAC on Monday in the afternoon 14:22:07 ... protocol work CG might be interested 14:22:29 mark (cu6): first most mature is presentation api 14:22:43 ... web page to discover and request presentation device 14:22:55 ... presentaation device pretty broadly 14:23:08 ... chrome also suppoer t2 kinds of vertual screens 14:23:24 ... api has 3 parts 14:23:32 ... 1. provide a list of URIs 14:23:43 ... 2. get current availability of the screen 14:23:53 ... search for the URL 14:24:02 ... presentation available object 14:24:17 ... whether the screen is available or not 14:24:35 ... when the user clicks the button the presentation starts 14:24:45 ... the user selects the device 14:24:55 ... the browser starts to present the page 14:25:04 ... message representing the page 14:25:18 ... the most common uc is playing back our cast devices 14:25:34 ... providing nicer APIs like pause/resume 14:26:05 ... richer UX like queuing devices 14:26:16 ... apis can be implemented in 2 ways 14:26:34 s/queuing devices/queuing media to play on devices/ 14:26:49 ... UA mode 14:27:39 ... render the presentation off screen 14:27:48 ... send URI to the device 14:28:14 ... this API is relatively mature 14:28:22 ... going to propose REC soon 14:28:32 ... implementation from Google and Mozilla 14:29:02 ... challenges on authentication for the presentation 14:29:33 ... move on to remote playback API 14:29:54 ... I contributed though not the Editor 14:30:19 ... play it remotely 14:30:34 https://www.w3.org/TR/remote-playback/ 14:30:55 https://www.w3.org/TR/presentation-api/ 14:31:21 mark: select device for remote playback 14:31:28 ... CR recently 14:31:46 ... discussing how to align the capability of the media element with the remote devices 14:31:56 ... github issues there 14:32:06 ... Chrome is shipping the implementation 14:32:18 ... would have second implementer 14:32:40 ... that's work by the WG on the spec 14:32:45 ... next work by the CG 14:32:54 ... issue by TAG 14:32:59 ... not a good story for interop 14:33:25 ... something web standards see when having multiple vendors 14:33:39 ... the end of last year, we rechartered the CG 14:33:53 ... browsers and devices from different vendors 14:34:20 ... decided the scope on the same wifi/network area 14:34:51 ... doesn't require realtime setting 14:35:02 ... a set of tasks to define different aspects 14:35:12 ... how to find what screens are available 14:35:18 https://www.w3.org/community/webscreens/ 14:35:19 ... transport to create connection 14:35:34 ... how to provide strong guarantee to talk with other devices 14:35:34 https://github.com/webscreens/openscreenprotocol 14:35:40 ... app level protocol 14:35:43 q? 14:35:55 ... since last Oct 14:36:04 ... working on template to evaluate 14:36:14 ... compare to other solutions 14:36:27 ... made good progress for the 2 proposals 14:36:39 ... QUIC 14:36:47 ... RTC data channel 14:37:11 ... haven't made as much progress with presentation api, though 14:37:16 ... authentication piece 14:37:24 ... Mozilla and Google kind of agreed 14:37:37 ... trusting something makes sense 14:37:54 ... Open Screen Protoco 14:38:14 ... hoping we could wrap up that 14:38:31 cn: tx! 14:38:36 ... great overview 14:38:43 ... a few comments 14:38:44 q? 14:39:08 gm: comparing to what ATSC is doing 14:39:23 ... opinions? 14:39:40 cn: can give some opinion from HbbTV viewpoint 14:39:57 mark: can't say about ATSC 14:40:06 ... but regarding HbbTV 2.0 14:40:13 ... good alignment 14:40:31 ... how to build robust authentication 14:40:49 ... would be worth while to evaluate them 14:41:02 ... once we could have authentication story 14:41:25 ... something we should visit 14:41:38 cn: from HbbTV viewpoint 14:41:52 ... something we specify for HbbTV 14:42:16 ... TV device to launch 14:42:36 ... content synchronization work 14:42:44 ... exchanging timeline info 14:42:47 ... between devices 14:42:57 ... synch of playinb back contents 14:43:08 ... feature alignment is of interest 14:43:16 ... that's one area 14:43:22 ... and protocols 14:43:32 ... HbbTV use SSTP 14:43:42 ... transport is JSON message on Web Socket 14:43:53 ... handshaking on the app level 14:44:02 ... same channel as the app uses 14:44:25 ... companion app and web app work on the TV device 14:44:41 ... combination of JSON over WebSocket 14:44:52 ... but also UDP things 14:45:05 ... latency of the characteristics 14:45:19 ... one attracting point 14:45:37 ... coming up solution is feature compatible 14:45:43 ... in the security layer 14:46:00 ... we're talking about different mechanisms 14:46:09 ... HTTP, Web Socket, UDP, etc. 14:46:14 ... quite different 14:46:28 s/SSTP/SSDP/ 14:46:43 ... are you familiar with ATSC work? 14:46:48 gm: similar approach 14:47:05 ... TV vendors use similar approach 14:47:17 ... not 100% sure about the detail, though 14:47:25 ti: working on ATSC standards 14:47:39 ... referring second screen use cases 14:47:59 ... a bit different the second screen group's use case 14:48:16 ... primary device is TV 14:48:29 ... delivered by broadcast 14:48:53 tidoust has joined #webtv 14:48:58 ... second device is assumed as a mobile device 14:49:16 ... the use case is focused on applications for second screen 14:49:25 ... done by mobile devices not TV 14:49:40 ... the second screen app is operated by the user 14:49:57 ... another use case is 14:50:26 ... HTML5 app on the main device (=TV) working 14:50:44 ... and mobile device communicate with the HTML5 apps 14:50:50 present+ Francois 14:51:03 cn: tx 14:51:22 ... interested in terminologies 14:51:37 ... remote screen and primary screen 14:51:52 ... 2nd screen group 14:52:02 ... vs ATSC/HbbTV 14:52:12 ... companion app on the TV 14:52:22 ... and mobile app as the 2nd screen 14:52:30 ... but it's opposite 14:52:55 mark: pushing presentation to the mobile device 14:53:31 ... changes the scenario 14:53:54 ... also we could select screen (from more than 2 screens) 14:54:00 ... aware of the content 14:54:11 ... finally from the general web viewpoint 14:54:20 ... how the content comes from broadcasting 14:54:27 ... same origin policy 14:54:45 cn: would like to have discussion within this IG 14:55:10 mark: restricting the presentation api to secure connection 14:55:34 ... there is some trust model there 14:55:46 ti: besides security viewpoint 14:55:56 ... would like to mention some uc 14:56:03 ... presentation api assumes the case of... 14:56:54 ... possible for second screen app to initiate the connection? 14:57:02 ... having 2 UA 14:57:25 ... and both of them already have launched apps 14:57:38 mark: presentations are labeled by URLs 14:57:45 ... browsers know the value 14:57:55 ... to reconnect 14:58:13 ... what we haven't fully specified is... 14:58:31 ... digital sign, etc., being distributed 14:58:46 ... have not been handling IDs 14:59:53 ti: the assumption for UCs covered or not 15:00:12 co: delivering captioning by second screen? 15:00:22 mark: not explicitly 15:00:32 ... don't have concrete UC for that purpose 15:00:55 ... media on the text track 15:01:04 ... could be transferred to the remote side 15:01:21 ... how to handle remote captions 15:01:40 co: familiar with @@@ 15:02:11 ... seems to be optimal way to handle the information to me 15:02:24 ... can send a resource to the group 15:03:10 s/@@@/Active View/ 15:03:38 mark: happy to answer your questions on the list 15:03:59 Igarasshi has joined #webtv 15:04:16 cn: need to organize follow-up discussion during TPAC 15:04:25 ... in the afternoon 15:04:28 ... after lunch 15:04:39 kaz: 1-2? 15:04:43 cn: 2-3pm 15:04:53 gm: suggestion 15:05:02 https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/13/actiview-aims-to-streamline-movie-accessibility-for-millions-of-hearing-and-vision-impaired/ 15:05:15 ... 2nd screen evaluation done via ATSC's formal liaison 15:06:00 kaz: we could send a formal liaison letter to ATSC, HbbTV and IPTVF 15:06:05 gm: good idea 15:06:47 cn: we put links on the resources 15:06:57 ... please review it and give comments 15:07:09 ... remote playback and protocol level as well 15:07:34 ... the next call would be basically Nov. 2 15:07:39 ... right before TPAC 15:07:54 http://actiview.co/theaters/ 15:07:57 ... any other comments before closing? 15:08:07 general overview of their technology 15:08:17 ti: during the joint session 15:08:30 ... would like to give some presentation 15:08:39 ... from high level viewpoint 15:09:25 ... might be useful to think about that before diving into the detail 15:09:36 cn: your presentation on ATSC 15:09:52 ... and I'd like to give presentation on HbbTV 15:10:05 ... key exchange for securiyt 15:10:18 s/key/btw, wanted to talk about key/ 15:10:26 s/securyt/security/ 15:10:58 ... would like to continue discussion on the ML and joint discussion at TPAC 15:11:09 present+ Kazuhiro_Hoya 15:11:33 hbbtv specifications: https://www.hbbtv.org/resource-library/#specifications 15:12:27 ti: short presentation on second screen 15:13:05 ... very high-level 15:13:43 ... could partly cover HbbTV and Hybridcast as well 15:14:44 i/short/[Igarashi-san's clarification]/ 15:14:51 [adjourned] 15:14:55 rrsagent, make log publi 15:14:56 rrsagent, make log public 15:15:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:15:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/05-webtv-minutes.html kaz 15:16:04 https://www.atsc.org/atsc-30-standard/a3382017-companion-device/ 15:16:15 Igarashi has joined #webtv 15:16:23 https://www.atsc.org/atsc-30-standard/a3382017-companion-device/ 15:16:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:16:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/10/05-webtv-minutes.html kaz 16:40:40 Karen has joined #webtv 17:27:22 Zakim has left #webtv 18:14:02 Karen has joined #webtv