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12:54:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:54:45 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:54:45 <trackbot> Date: 13 September 2017
12:54:58 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0029
12:55:06 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0029
12:55:12 <Steven> Chair: Steven
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13:00:26 <alain> alain has joined #forms
13:04:57 <alain> No
13:05:09 <pfennell> No
13:09:04 <ebruchez> we can hear you
13:10:13 <pfennell> Erik and I can hear each other so the problem is still with you Steven.
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13:17:59 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2134: Add the two email types to the spec
13:17:59 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0002
13:18:04 <Steven> Steven: THis is done
13:18:18 <Steven> s/TH/Th
13:18:56 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2131: Adopt new validation rule in text
13:18:56 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0011
13:19:02 <Steven> Steven: Also done
13:19:54 <Steven> Topic: context information for action-error on actions with IDREF
13:19:54 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0012
13:22:37 <Steven> Steven: What should the value of error-type be?
13:22:54 <Steven> Erik: I think we treat it as a binding error in other places.
13:23:00 <Steven> ... see if I can find an example
13:23:34 <Steven> ... maybe I'm wrong
13:25:11 <Steven> Erik: A separate value would be preferable.
13:25:16 <Steven> Steven: ID-error?
13:25:22 <Steven> Erik: yes, or idref
13:25:30 <Steven> Steven: OK
13:25:50 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to make errortype for bad IDs idref-error
13:25:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2137 - Make errortype for bad ids idref-error [on Steven Pemberton - due 2017-09-20].
13:26:10 <Steven> Topic: setvalue context information for action-error
13:26:10 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0013
13:27:12 <Steven> Steven: Two different values?
13:27:21 <Steven> Erik: We don't need to be that sepcific I think
13:27:30 <Steven> ... let me see if there is a precendent
13:27:36 <Steven> s/nd/d/
13:28:07 <Steven> Erik: let's make something up
13:28:45 <Steven> Steven: setvalue-error?
13:30:04 <Steven> Erik: There is a similar case with submission
13:30:12 <Steven> ... replace="text"
13:31:03 <Steven> ... target-non-element in that case.
13:31:18 <Steven> ... so it is different, since setelement can set attributes as well
13:31:47 <Steven> ... maybe reuse "target-xxx"
13:32:00 <Steven> ... target-children
13:32:05 <Steven> ... abit specific.
13:32:10 <Steven> s/abit/a bit/
13:32:42 <Steven> ... just make it up
13:32:56 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to assign anj error name to the settarget errors
13:32:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2138 - Assign anj error name to the settarget errors [on Steven Pemberton - due 2017-09-20].
13:33:12 <Steven> Topic: Email type
13:33:12 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0018
13:34:39 <Steven> Erik: I fully agre that the user doesn't have to do work
13:34:44 <Steven> s/agre/agree/
13:35:15 <Steven> Erik: If the user types leading and trailing spaces, it should not give an error
13:35:32 <Steven> ... whitespace MIP deals with this
13:36:04 <Steven> ... for most fields if not all, you want spacing to be normalised
13:36:25 <Steven> ... and then you don't need spaces in the type.
13:37:24 <Steven> Steven: if incremental="true" then a trailing space would give a validation error, which will go if you tab away.
13:37:27 <Steven> ... rather odd.
13:38:04 <Steven> Erik: Yes there is a tension in this case.
13:38:41 <Steven> ... it's a general problem.
13:39:02 <Steven> ... We would solve it for email, and not for the other cases.
13:39:47 <Steven> Erik: It is seldom that you use incremental.
13:40:31 <Steven> Steven: So in fact, you would paste the email, and tab away, whitespace MIP would come into effect, and so wouldn't show up as a validation error.
13:40:35 <Steven> Erik: Yes
13:40:52 <Steven> Steven: You have convinced me.
13:41:14 <Steven> Erik: the other data types that we import don't include spaces, so this shouldn't either.
13:41:35 <Steven> Topic: Telephone number type
13:41:35 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0016
13:41:35 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Sep/0028
13:41:48 <Steven> Steven: Do we think it's worth adding?
13:41:56 <Steven> Erik: Clearly useful.
13:42:09 <Steven> ... we don't have such a type.
13:42:25 <Steven> ... We are investigating.
13:43:19 <Steven> ... we want to do more than syntax checking but also semantic properties
13:44:13 <Steven> Steven: Comparable to how we do credit cards, one part that does the syntax, and a constraint function that checks the semantics.
13:45:20 <Steven> Erik: So the question is whether a syntax check is enough.
13:46:33 <Steven> Steven: The type does a basic level of consistency checking
13:47:00 <Steven> ... even with emails, you don't know if it is a real email address until you have sent an email and got a reply.
13:48:30 <Steven> Erik: With dates, we have an internal form and a localised external form. This might also be the case for phone numbers.
13:51:13 <Steven> Erik: I'm not sure if you want brackets and dashes in the data.
13:53:11 <Steven> Steven: If you are all OK with adding it.
13:53:32 <Steven> Alain: I'm OK with it. There is an issue with formatting.
13:53:40 <Steven> ... it's not that easy.
13:53:47 <Steven> Philip: I'm OK too.
13:53:57 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to add telephone datatype.
13:53:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2139 - Add telephone datatype. [on Steven Pemberton - due 2017-09-20].
13:55:14 <Steven> Topic: Dynamic dependencies
13:55:14 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2017Mar/0012
13:55:14 <Steven> [Awaiting an example]
13:55:20 <Steven> Steven: Just a reminder
13:55:26 <Steven> Topic: AOB
13:55:52 <Steven> Steven: I'm giving a lecture at the Royal College of Art in two weeks time, so there will be a call next week, but not the week after.
13:55:56 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
13:56:15 <Steven> Present: Alain, Erik, Philip, Steven
13:56:25 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:56:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/09/13-forms-minutes.html Steven
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