13:59:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
13:59:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-tt-irc
13:59:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:59:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
13:59:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
13:59:18 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:59:18 <trackbot> Date: 20 July 2017
14:00:27 <nigel> scribe: nigel
14:00:38 <nigel> Present: Nigel, Pierre, Andreas
14:00:40 <nigel> Regrets: Glenn
14:00:44 <nigel> Chair: Nigel
14:00:53 <pal> pal has joined #tt
14:01:52 <pal> Audio sounds great
14:02:04 <pal> I am in the middle of another meeting so cannot really participate
14:02:22 <nigel> s/I am in the middle of another meeting so cannot really participate/
14:02:30 <nigel> s/Audio sounds great/
14:02:51 <atai> atai has joined #tt
14:03:39 <nigel> Topic: This meeting
14:04:15 <nigel> Nigel: Today, we will look at the PQ in PNG Note, and the CSS features in TTML wiki page,
14:04:31 <nigel> .. which I need to be able to share with TAG tomorrow prior to meeting them next week,
14:05:48 <nigel> Nigel: I don't think there's much to discuss for IMSC or TTML or WebVTT this week. AOB?
14:05:53 <nigel> Andreas: No other business from me.
14:06:35 <nigel> Topic: HDR in PNG
14:06:49 <nigel> Nigel: We said we'd propose to publish this week. Any feedback received?
14:07:01 <nigel> Pierre: I've not received any further feedback.
14:07:09 <nigel> Nigel: I don't have anything to add on this.
14:07:14 <nigel> Andreas: Not from me either.
14:07:31 <nigel> PROPOSAL: Publish the png-hdr-pq document as a WG Note
14:08:05 <nigel> Nigel: I'm not sure about the practicalities of publishing this.
14:08:10 <nigel> Pierre: Can we use echidna?
14:08:13 <nigel> Nigel: I don't know@
14:08:16 <nigel> s/@/!
14:08:23 <nigel> Pierre: I'm happy to follow up with Thierry.
14:08:52 <nigel> .. The Echidna tool says it can publish Notes with a group decision and a token.
14:09:02 <nigel> .. I should be able to request the token if it doesn't have one already and just do it.
14:09:06 <nigel> Nigel: Great.
14:10:03 <nigel> RESOLUTION: Publish the png-hdr-pq document as a WG Note.
14:10:32 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
14:10:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-tt-minutes.html nigel
14:11:26 <nigel> Nigel: I raised this as an issue on the repo:
14:11:33 <nigel> -> https://github.com/w3c/png-hdr-pq/issues/5 Publish as a Note #5
14:11:58 <nigel> Topic: CSS styling equivalents of TTML2 and IMSC features
14:12:05 <nigel> action-497?
14:12:05 <trackbot> action-497 -- Nigel Megitt to Invite csswg to joint meeting at tpac 2017, with list of topics. -- due 2017-06-15 -- OPEN
14:12:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/497
14:12:20 <nigel> Nigel: I've been in discussion with Alan Stearns about this - there has been a bit of early
14:12:33 <nigel> .. discussion of CSS WG feedback for TTML2 in the CSSWG reflector.
14:12:43 <nigel> .. I've also updated the CSS Requirements wiki page.
14:13:06 <nigel> -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/CSSRequirements TTML and IMSC styling features that are hard to reproduce in CSS
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14:15:33 <nigel> Present+ Thierry
14:17:34 <nigel> Nigel: I think this is okay now but I don't know if anyone has any comments on it or suggestions
14:17:37 <nigel> .. for anything to change?
14:17:43 <nigel> Andreas: I haven't had the chance to review it.
14:18:05 <nigel> Nigel: I plan to share it by end of play tomorrow so any feedback really needs to come soon please.
14:18:37 <nigel> Pierre: David Baron went to some length previously.
14:19:00 <nigel> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2016Nov/0106.html David Baron email feedback 2016-11-23
14:19:32 <nigel> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2017Jul/0007.html Florian's email discussion thread to www-style 2017-07-14
14:20:03 <nigel> Pierre: It would be good to involve them in the discussion at least.
14:20:14 <nigel> Nigel: Yes, I assume David will be there at TAG next week but I'm not certain.
14:20:31 <nigel> .. It's a good point I should make sure his analysis is represented in the wiki page.
14:22:14 <nigel> .. I also noticed that there are some attributes like rubyOverhang and rubyOverhang class
14:22:30 <nigel> .. that are missing from Dae's list on imsc#218 so I pinged him there to ask but he hasn't
14:22:33 <nigel> .. yet replied.
14:22:39 <nigel> Pierre: Do you have textOutline on there too?
14:22:46 <nigel> Nigel: No, can that not be done with text-shadow?
14:23:04 <nigel> Pierre: No, it cannot be done in CSS except with one proprietary (Apple) extension.
14:23:15 <nigel> Nigel: OK I'll add that.
14:23:51 <nigel> .. Oh, rubyOffset seems missing too.
14:24:03 <nigel> Pierre: I think everything else you've already covered or it has good support already.
14:24:41 <nigel> Nigel: Oh I've just spotted inlineAreaBreak too, which is needed for linePadding - that's
14:24:58 <nigel> .. something that needs an extension relative to CSS, but I think that's already being
14:25:06 <nigel> .. discussed in CSSWG if I remember rightly.
14:25:51 <nigel> .. If there's anything else you see, especially in terms of accuracy of language, please let
14:25:58 <nigel> .. me know and/or edit the document to fix it.
14:26:31 <nigel> Pierre: I think the key step is to get agreement to include subtitles and captions in the core
14:26:46 <nigel> .. functionality of CSS, then the details can follow from there, with give and take as needed.
14:28:55 <nigel> Nigel: It's interesting to compare tts:displayAlign with CSS, and how it can be implemented.
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14:29:32 <nigel> Pierre: It turns out that you need to use flex to meet the vertical positioning and I believe
14:29:39 <nigel> .. horizontal positioning too.
14:30:31 <nigel> .. Flex is the only way to preserve aspect ratio as well.
14:30:41 <nigel> .. To make TTML work reliably in my experience you must use flex.
14:31:06 <nigel> .. You may be able to do it with tables but that has other implications, like its not
14:31:14 <nigel> .. recommended - everyone says don't do it!
14:31:52 <nigel> Nigel: Okay I have some actions to tweak the document for now, as well as incorporating
14:32:02 <nigel> .. any review comments over the next 24 hours.
14:32:27 <nigel> Topic: IMSC
14:32:46 <nigel> Pierre: I fixed the tests so line breaks are consistent and created two pull requests to
14:32:58 <nigel> .. do that and also to fix some broken renders.
14:33:35 <nigel> Topic: TTML2
14:33:48 <nigel> Thierry: I had some responses for the wide review, but mainly "I'm submitting your liaison
14:34:00 <nigel> .. to the appropriate people". I should forward them to the member list to track them.
14:34:02 <nigel> Nigel: Yes please.
14:34:08 <nigel> Thierry: No substantial comments so far.
14:35:41 <nigel> Nigel: OK given that half of us have to disappear off for other things and we've covered
14:35:56 <nigel> .. as much of our agenda as we usefully can today, let's adjourn until next week. [adjourns meeting]
14:36:02 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
14:36:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-tt-minutes.html nigel
14:40:44 <nigel> scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
14:40:45 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
14:40:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/20-tt-minutes.html nigel
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