16:59:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #social
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16:59:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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16:59:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SOCL
16:59:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
16:59:28 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
16:59:28 <trackbot> Date: 11 July 2017
16:59:30 <sandro> present+
17:00:15 <rhiaro> present+
17:01:04 <rhiaro> is webex working? it's not asking me for my attendee id number or doing anything else after I put the code in
17:01:06 <tantek> tantek has joined #social
17:01:22 <rhiaro> oh wait I heard something
17:01:37 <tsyesika> present+
17:01:49 <ajordan> rhiaro++ for general enthusiasm
17:01:49 <Loqi> rhiaro has 151 karma in this channel (269 overall)
17:01:54 <ajordan> even after last week!
17:01:58 <ajordan> present+
17:02:12 <cwebber2> present+
17:02:54 <rhiaro> scribenick: rhiaro
17:03:38 <tantek> present+
17:03:48 <ben_thatmustbeme> present+
17:04:17 <tantek> sandro++
17:04:17 <Loqi> sandro has 46 karma in this channel (53 overall)
17:04:47 <tantek> Zakim, who is here?
17:04:47 <Zakim> Present: sandro, rhiaro, tsyesika, ajordan, cwebber, tantek, ben_thatmustbeme
17:04:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see tantek, Zakim, RRSAgent, xmpp-social, prtksxna, albino, cwebber2, wilkie, ajordan, JanKusanagi, trackbot, rhiaro, sandro, Loqi, MMN-o, nightpool, DenSchub, raucao,
17:04:50 <Zakim> ... saper, puckipedia, tsyesika, jet, bwn, lambadalambda, jaywink, tcit, aaronpk, saranix, astronouth7303, dwhly, bitbear, mattl, csarven, sknebel, ben_thatmustbeme, Gargron,
17:04:50 <Zakim> ... bigbluehat
17:05:31 <ben_thatmustbeme> thanks amy
17:06:14 <cwebber2> yesss?
17:06:41 <cwebber2> yeah I didn't move it I guess sorry
17:06:44 <cwebber2> I'll do ti
17:06:51 <rhiaro> Topic: Last week's minutes
17:06:57 <rhiaro> tantek: we're doing it next week, theyr'e not on the wiki yet
17:07:03 <rhiaro> Topic: Summer schedule
17:07:16 <rhiaro> tantek: we discussed having telecons every other week. what are peoples' feelings? What works for august?
17:07:21 <rhiaro> ... Telecon next week?
17:07:35 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> Unclear if I can make it next week
17:07:59 <rhiaro> ... lack of enthusiasm says to me we don't need one
17:08:06 <rhiaro> ... but if someone wants one we can do that
17:08:09 <rhiaro> ... anyone?
17:08:25 <aaronpk> present+
17:08:50 <rhiaro> ... unless something comes up or this meeting runs over, we skip next week
17:08:54 <rhiaro> ... What dates work in august?
17:09:02 <rhiaro> sandro: two weeks from now is still july?
17:09:31 <rhiaro> tantek: We should do two weeks from now, at least every 2 weeks
17:09:37 <rhiaro> ... No meeting on 18, yes meeting on 25
17:09:40 <rhiaro> ... Any objections?
17:09:47 <cwebber2> +1
17:09:51 <rhiaro> ... some verbal +1s
17:09:57 <rhiaro> ... August?
17:10:02 <Loqi> Sandro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2017-07-11-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=103704&oldid=0
17:10:02 <Loqi> Cwebber2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2017-07-11-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=103705&oldid=103704
17:10:02 <Loqi> Cwebber2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2017-06-27-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=103706&oldid=0
17:10:16 <rhiaro>  ... August 1 opinions?
17:10:29 <ben_thatmustbeme> i will be regrets for the 25th actually, but thats ok
17:10:38 <rhiaro> sandro: at risk, schedule wise
17:10:44 <rhiaro> tantek: -0, less convenient
17:10:56 <ajordan> +1
17:11:03 <rhiaro> sandro: compared to the 8th?
17:11:06 <rhiaro> tantek: I'm on vacation
17:11:25 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> Should we find out if evan can chair on the 8th?
17:11:32 <ben_thatmustbeme> 8th is fine for me
17:11:44 <rhiaro> tantek: 15th?
17:12:01 <sandro> For me  1=maybe, 8=good, 15=maybe, 22=bad, 29=maybe
17:12:46 <tantek> for me 1=maybe, 8=bad, 15=good, 22=bad, 29=good
17:12:50 <cwebber2>  i'm good for all days afaik
17:12:52 <rhiaro> sandro: doodle, we don't have to decide today
17:13:01 <rhiaro> tantek: rough agreement for people here
17:13:18 <aaronpk> august is pretty open for me
17:13:19 <ajordan> I'm good for all days except the 22nd(?)
17:13:31 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> probably all fine for me, maybe1st and 8th at risk
17:13:37 <ajordan> oh and the 15th
17:13:45 <rhiaro> actually no 1st is fine
17:14:07 <ben_thatmustbeme> i'm good for whenever in august
17:14:12 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> Can we assume people who didn't express opinions are fine for all?
17:14:18 <ajordan> clarification: bad the 15th
17:14:22 <rhiaro> sandro: sounds like we should do the 1st as well
17:14:26 <rhiaro> tantek: I wouldn't want to chair on that date
17:14:32 <rhiaro> ... So contingent evan can chair?
17:14:40 <rhiaro> ... and then 15th and 29th?
17:14:42 <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
17:14:52 <cwebber2> +1
17:15:12 <rhiaro> sandro: Cancelling 22nd and 8th
17:15:13 <ajordan> I don't know what my day-to-day schedule will look like on the 29th
17:15:27 <ajordan> I think I'll have started classes then
17:15:36 <sandro> CANCELING July 18, ug 8, Aug 22
17:16:29 <tantek> for sure: 7/25, 8/15, 8/29. 8/1 contingent on Evan chairing
17:16:37 <rhiaro> Topic: ActivityPub
17:16:51 <rhiaro> cwebber2: implementation report from puckipedia, who has implemented nearly everything if not everything
17:17:03 <rhiaro> ... a bunch of PRs from aj that I haven't gone through yet
17:17:21 <rhiaro> ... Test suite.. I've done all client to server tests, execept Block requires that I implement federation in the test suite
17:17:41 <rhiaro> ... because there's no meaningful test of the block activity unless you are actually federating
17:17:50 <rhiaro> ... so thats' where I stopped. When that's done, client to server test suite will be done
17:17:59 <rhiaro> ... And got a bunch of issues to go through today
17:18:01 <ajordan> q+
17:18:22 <rhiaro> sandro: did puckipedia use your test suite?
17:18:41 <rhiaro> cwebber2: they gave me access to their server and I haven't run it against the test suite yet, but we talkeda bout it. I tested with my client
17:18:48 <rhiaro> ... Plan on doing that over the next week and a half
17:19:01 <ajordan> s/talkeda bout/talked about/
17:19:03 <rhiaro> ... As soon as I put the test suite up publicly that's that I'll do
17:19:17 <rhiaro> sandro: When other people use the test suite that helps us get feedback on whether it's working
17:19:35 <rhiaro> tantek: Anyone able to play with the test suite, or right now it's just in a place where only you can run stuff against it
17:19:46 <rhiaro> cwebber2: I can expose it but haven't because I've been working on it
17:20:17 <rhiaro> tantek: On ething I remember from webmention and micropub test suite development was that even while in development was having the tests incrementally added publicly helped people find problems in their implementations and in the test suite sooner rather than later
17:20:21 <rhiaro> ... Woud highly advise doing the same
17:20:28 <rhiaro> ... Even an incomplete test suite is is better than none
17:20:33 <rhiaro> ... even if it's not testing the right things
17:20:43 <rhiaro> cwebber2: By the next call in two weeks I will have it exposed and tested against puckipedia
17:21:12 <rhiaro> sandro: you can say no.. but.. would you be willing to commit to definitely releasing it before the next meeting, whatever state it is in
17:21:20 <rhiaro> ... to get over the hurdle of the release
17:21:33 <rhiaro> cwebber2: I can do teh thing where I'm proxying to my home machine and people can see my tests locally
17:21:40 <rhiaro> ... I will have it up and demonstrate it to the group by next call
17:21:47 <rhiaro> sandro: If you need a server I think I can give that out
17:21:53 <rhiaro> cwebber2: I have a server.. that's not the issue
17:22:05 <rhiaro> ... Issues?
17:22:08 <rhiaro> q?
17:22:24 <rhiaro> ajordan: Questiona bout the Block thing
17:22:36 <rhiaro> ... Why you can only meaningfully test it if it's federated?
17:22:44 <rhiaro> ... Seems like you should be able to test someone on a local instance?
17:23:12 <rhiaro> cwebber2: It would require that I have users put in two accounts rather than one, and I'm going to need to put in support so I can .. I would have to have people enter in two accounts even though that's not normally really necessary. Feels like a lot of extra input
17:23:18 <rhiaro> ... Going to need to put the federation support up anyway
17:23:29 <rhiaro> ... It would be extra/other work to add support for that
17:23:48 <rhiaro> ... I need add federation anyway.. I don't think it would be a lot less work to do it that way and would be more irritating for the user of the test suite
17:24:03 <rhiaro> ... Figured I might as well just get this in
17:24:08 <rhiaro> ajordon: that makes sense
17:24:20 <ajordan> ack ajordan
17:24:22 <rhiaro> tantek: Anyone else have test suite questions?
17:24:33 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> I have some stuff to run, needs some fixing up
17:25:02 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> (clients)
17:25:05 <ajordan> s/ajordon/ajordan/
17:25:35 <rhiaro> tantek: I would encourage everyone to implement some other pieces to implement and run against the test suite
17:25:52 <rhiaro> ... Most normative issue first
17:25:54 <cwebber2> https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/239
17:25:55 <Loqi> [puckipedia] #239 mediaUpload: only post to outbox if it's a Create activity?
17:26:18 <rhiaro> cwebber2: This is a suggestion from puckipedia. Saying well they would like to attach multiple images to a post
17:26:36 <rhiaro> ... attach multiple media items to one object, like how twitter has multiple images
17:27:23 <rhiaro> ... So the idea is if you upload a video it uploads to the media endpoint it doesn't post to your outbox right away, so youc an attach them as attachment to posts later
17:27:24 <rhiaro> q+
17:27:29 <rhiaro> ... I thought this was a  good way to do it
17:27:44 <rhiaro> ... I want to incorporate this, but wanted opinions
17:27:57 <rhiaro> sandro: any problem with me uploading a few tens of thousnads of photos and never putting any of them in a stream?
17:28:19 <rhiaro> cwebber2: Could be an issue that I imagine.. one thing tha toriginally I thought you could get around.. but I know that this would also be working with the way twitter and micropub does things
17:28:31 <rhiaro> ... ?? if you were concerned about that
17:28:41 <rhiaro> s/??/youd' have to garbage collect
17:28:52 <rhiaro> sandro: you could garbage collect if something hasnt' been referenced by a post for some period of time
17:28:57 <ben_thatmustbeme> that is what twitter does as well
17:28:57 <rhiaro> cwebber2: pump.io does that
17:29:00 <rhiaro> tantek: and micrpub
17:29:11 <rhiaro> cwebber2: are people fine with this?
17:29:15 <rhiaro> tantek: normative change?
17:29:28 <rhiaro> cwebber2: Specific condition about whether or not something is wrapped in ..??
17:29:57 <rhiaro> ... Whether or not somethig is wrapped ina create is whether or not it is posted to the outbox
17:30:06 <rhiaro> ... if it's not wrapped in a create, it indicates it's meant to be attached to another object
17:30:14 <rhiaro> ... if it is, it's a full fledged post
17:30:36 <rhiaro> sandro: that seems like a bad thing to use an implicit action
17:30:43 <rhiaro> ... making everything as explicit as possible usually plays well
17:30:57 <rhiaro> cwebber2: the alternate that tsyesika suggested is that ??
17:31:38 <rhiaro> ... Two other routes are you can have a multipart form ??? outbox or maybe you could have one post with multiple file fields and refernecing that in the current object some way. The latter is trickier
17:32:51 <ben_thatmustbeme> q+
17:32:56 <rhiaro> ... The alternates are to have the multipart form that has a boolean field that says whether it's going to the outbox. Or to allow it to be all in one go and upload multiple file objects in one post but then you'd reference them some way inside the activitystream object, but trickier to slot in temporary names
17:32:59 <tantek> q?
17:33:05 <sandro> I like Boolean, but lets hear from q
17:33:29 <ben_thatmustbeme> i can scribe
17:33:33 <ben_thatmustbeme> scribenick: ben_thatmustbeme
17:34:13 <ben_thatmustbeme> rhiaro: not providing a solution, but how i do things right now, i upload images seperately, and i have a client that lets me choose the images i already have on the server and that creates the create object
17:34:46 <ben_thatmustbeme> ... i don't have a media-endpoint, but if i did, i would have it create the 'create' object
17:34:55 <tantek> https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/239
17:34:56 <Loqi> [puckipedia] #239 mediaUpload: only post to outbox if it's a Create activity?
17:35:00 <tantek> q?
17:35:02 <tantek> ack rhiaro
17:35:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> cwebber2: i'm not completely sure how you would add to a note object
17:36:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> rhiaro: yeah, i reference the url in the body
17:36:25 <rhiaro> scribenick: rhiaro
17:36:30 <tantek> ack ben_thatmustbeme
17:36:58 <rhiaro> ben_thatmustbeme: I was wondering more, rather than break anything for anyone, could you just do the micropub route of having a separate endpoint and what the problem would be there?
17:37:19 <rhiaro> ... you can use the attachment for a single item, and if you want multiple you upload them to the media endpoint first and then you add them
17:37:31 <rhiaro> ... and then could it be exactly the same as micropub and we only have to implement it once?
17:37:53 <rhiaro> cwebber2: Unlike micropub, you give the shell activity. The uploading process, especially for video, might be adding extra data attached to the object. In micropub I think that's not the case
17:37:55 <aaronpk> q+
17:38:33 <rhiaro> ... We could do it where it's exactly like micropub. Part of the motivation here was that you were explicitly making .. I don't know, a certain amount of going back on the issue to the drawing board. I feel like we need a clean description of how this would be done in this issue, and we need to thrash this out on the issue cos it's pretty different
17:38:36 <tantek> ack aaronpk
17:38:48 <rhiaro> aaronpk: I just want to clarify some of the goals around mediaendpoint in general
17:39:08 <ajordan> aaronpk: this is micropub's mediaendpoint?
17:39:25 <rhiaro> ... THe idea is that it is just for the file itself, which is potentially very large and the rason it is separate is because of things like retrying failures, pausing and resuming, and to get the file up to the server so that it can be used in a post in the future
17:39:37 <sandro> https://www.instagram.com/developer/endpoints/media/
17:39:38 <rhiaro> ... With micropub we looked at the twitter api, and saw the separate endpoint and based it off that design
17:39:56 <rhiaro> ... twitter also have a chunked media endpoint where you can upload files in parts, which lets you do very large files in small pieces, which is way better for the client
17:40:05 <rhiaro> ... We could extend the micropub media endpoint to use the chunking idea
17:40:21 <rhiaro> ... What I'm getting at is that there's value in completely separating the file handling from the rest of the data
17:40:25 <rhiaro> ... I think AP woudl benefit from that as well
17:40:49 <sandro> +1 binary attachments going to a separate endpoint
17:40:54 <rhiaro> ... I think handling media in a media specific way would benefit it
17:41:00 <ben_thatmustbeme> twitter has a media-metadata endpoint too i think doesn't it?
17:41:16 <rhiaro> cwebber2: I'm open to reapproaching this, but doing so would mean we're going to have to take some time to work through what that would look like
17:41:18 <aaronpk> ben_thatmustbeme, i think so, and in activitypub that would be done in an activitypub-specific way
17:41:37 <rhiaro> ... One case where this would be tricky - you upload a half a terabyte video file, and you need to give it a title etc
17:41:49 <aaronpk> twitter api docs: https://dev.twitter.com/rest/media/uploading-media
17:42:02 <sandro> q?
17:42:04 <rhiaro> ... You're not actually just attaching a single URL to the thing that's uploaded, youre' attaching 4 urls that get extracted and several bits of metadata extracted from the video itself
17:42:08 <sandro> q+
17:42:08 <rhiaro> ... three different transcoded versions
17:42:12 <rhiaro> ... that's where it gets tricky
17:42:35 <rhiaro> ... I would like to see how that case where you have somehting that gets split up to multiple resolutiosn of the same file, and each of their metadata, incorporated into an object that you upload later
17:42:53 <ben_thatmustbeme> i think twitter does that as well, multiple version after upload
17:43:04 <rhiaro> aaronpk: Worth looking at how twitter and flickr and places that handle transcoding do it
17:43:10 <rhiaro> ... twitter transcodes gifs to mp4s
17:43:33 <rhiaro> cwebber2: do they have a single canonical file that exists? or youtube style where there's multiple outputs with their own individual metadata
17:43:38 <rhiaro> aaronpk: I haven't looked at that in enough detail to know
17:43:50 <rhiaro> cwebber2: that's the quesiton because that's the motivation for having this shell object for the metadata
17:44:05 <rhiaro> aaronpk: in any case, I think you can do that with AP, creating a shell/meta object, and still handle binary uploads separately
17:44:32 <rhiaro> cwebber2: would require two separate uris at that point.. even if you're posting it to your outbox, you need some way of indicating that this ojbect needs to be completed in some way by this previous media that I uploaded
17:45:04 <tantek> q?
17:45:06 <rhiaro> ... One thing I liked about the design puckipedia suggested is that it permitted having multiple uploads of different objects is that it had ac lear way of having multiple attachments for even something as complicated as what we just discussed, which I'm not seeing in these other designs
17:45:16 <rhiaro> ... If anyone has clear thoughts on how this alternate route would work I'd like to look at it
17:45:48 <rhiaro> ... I'm hearing that there are reasons to have an endpoint just for files, that's potentially fine, if it can do the things we need. It doesn't seem like we have all the answers to show that it can yet.
17:46:21 <tantek> ack sandro
17:46:29 <ajordan> q+ for a logistical issue re: this issue
17:47:05 <rhiaro> sandro: Multimedia resource management is an orthogonal service and all the transcoding and multiple representations and potentially metadata and sometimes metadata about only a particular representation.. all of those are issues that have been around for a while, not necessarily a clean solution, but largely orthogonal to social networking
17:47:30 <rhiaro> ... So to the extent that we can treat that as an orthogonal problem.. maybe there's nothing off the shelf, but somehow tryign to keep them separate and separate extensibility points and all that seems like a good idea
17:47:45 <rhiaro> tantek: Chris, how many more issues?
17:47:49 <rhiaro> cwebber2: 2
17:48:11 <cwebber2> https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/236
17:48:12 <Loqi> [strugee] #236 Perhaps move Likes/Shares Collection to an AS2 extension
17:48:22 <rhiaro> ... This was raised by strugee at the end of last weekend
17:48:38 <ajordan> q- but if someone can summarize the different proposals for the mediaendpoint thing that would be nice
17:48:38 <rhiaro> ... We agreed that vocab extensions are unrelated to the protocol and shouldn't be handled by the protocol
17:48:49 <rhiaro> ... So why not move likes/shares collections out of the spec?
17:48:54 <ajordan> since I'm having a bit of trouble keeping them straight
17:48:54 <tantek> q?
17:49:02 <ajordan> q-
17:49:13 <rhiaro> ... The reason why I don't want to do that is that they are referenced by the protocol
17:49:22 <cwebber2> https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/#like-activity-inbox
17:49:40 <rhiaro> ... the like activity here in the server-to-server specifically says you increment the likes collection counter as a side effect
17:49:46 <rhiaro> ... so it's relevant to the protocol and thus we shouldn't remove it
17:49:50 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> +1 what chris said
17:49:52 <ben_thatmustbeme> q+
17:49:59 <tantek> ack ben_thatmustbeme
17:50:21 <ben_thatmustbeme> speaker died again?
17:50:47 <ajordan> q+
17:50:59 <rhiaro> tantek: if we accept your proposal chris, the outcome is no change?
17:50:59 <rhiaro> cwebber2: right
17:51:14 <rhiaro> tantek: unless there are objections to that I'd like to move forward with that. if there's new information we can reopen the issue
17:51:21 <tantek> ack ajordan
17:51:26 <rhiaro> ajordan: my point is on the issue
17:51:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> i was going to say that, the idea is the LIkes and Shares are useful outside of AP
17:51:43 <ben_thatmustbeme> which was sort of the reasoning to moving it out of the spec
17:52:08 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> ben, there's no reason nodoby else can use them just because they're in AP...
17:52:16 <tantek> q?
17:52:26 <rhiaro> cwebber2: my point is that if you take this resolution  you're saying it's within scope because its part of the protocol
17:52:37 <rhiaro> tantek: I can see it argued either way, looking forward to seeing comments on the issue
17:52:58 <rhiaro> ben_thatmustbeme: likes and shares are useful outside of AP, which was the point of moving it to an extension
17:53:07 <ajordan> async++
17:53:07 <Loqi> async has 1 karma in this channel (2 overall)
17:53:09 <rhiaro> tantek: let's discuss this written down on the issue
17:53:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> async++
17:53:19 <Loqi> async has 2 karma in this channel (3 overall)
17:53:26 <rhiaro> Topic: Websub
17:53:45 <rhiaro> aaronpk: Two new implementationr eports this week. One is from a system that implements all thre epieces. One is from a hub
17:53:48 <ajordan> \o/ whoooo!
17:53:59 <rhiaro> ... the other news is that I can't merge the PR because I no longer have write access to the repository..
17:54:14 <rhiaro> tantek: do we have 2 of each publisher, hub and subscriber?
17:54:19 <rhiaro> aaronpk: we do now
17:54:33 <rhiaro> sandro: any comments or feedback or issues?
17:54:46 <rhiaro> aaronpk: they just went through the test suite and checked off the ones that they supported. I don't see any specific notes in here
17:55:02 <rhiaro> sandro: are these new?
17:55:08 <rhiaro> aaronpk: One I recognise from a couple of years ago
17:55:12 <rhiaro> ... the other one I haven't seen before
17:55:36 <rhiaro> tantek: good.. we should start discussing PR transition at some point
17:55:54 <rhiaro> ... that takes a little while anyway
17:56:05 <rhiaro> aaronpk: I still have to correlate the individual features
17:56:08 <rhiaro> tantek: coverage is important
17:56:40 <rhiaro> sandro: do we have implementation reports from any of the ostatus type folks? GNU Social or Mastodon?
17:56:40 <rhiaro> aaronpk: does not look like it
17:56:41 <rhiaro> sandro: that would be nice.. we should make some effort there
17:57:22 <rhiaro> tantek: aaron, could you reach out to the implementations that sandro mentioned and ask for an implementation report?
17:57:26 <rhiaro> ... Or at the CG
17:57:46 <rhiaro> ... They're outside the WG?
17:57:50 <rhiaro> aaronpk: correct
17:58:02 <rhiaro> tantek: we need a summary for the PR transition
17:58:06 <tantek> q?
17:58:11 <rhiaro> sandro: there was that private email..
17:58:17 <rhiaro> tantek: I wasn't going to bring that up
17:58:21 <rhiaro> sandro: I'd like to wait for them
17:58:37 <rhiaro> tantek: we can ping them again and say we're about to transition and ask for ETA
17:58:40 <rhiaro> sandro: I'll do that
17:58:55 <rhiaro> Topic: JF2
17:59:16 <rhiaro> ben_thatmustbeme: there is a validator up and some sample test files that need expanding
17:59:28 <rhiaro> ... I have feedback on potential implementations, but no template yet. Not sure what that will look like
17:59:48 <rhiaro> ... I know AS2 went through all the vocabulary, but jf2 doesn't use its own vocab it uses microformats
17:59:52 <rhiaro> ... I could list the stable microformats
17:59:59 <rhiaro> ... But i'm not quite sure if that's really enough of a report
18:00:05 <rhiaro> ... or exactly what that should look like
18:00:26 <rhiaro> tantek: if you can show multiple implementations doing the same thing, demonstrating interop for publishing and consuming, think about that as the objective of the reports
18:00:31 <tantek> q?
18:00:52 <ben_thatmustbeme> jf2.rocks for the validator
18:01:10 <ajordan> I can extend
18:01:13 <tsyesika> I have to go also, but folks can continue
18:01:14 <ben_thatmustbeme> i'm okay
18:01:34 <tantek> q?
18:01:51 <rhiaro> ajordan: does this mean we should schedule for next week?
18:01:53 <rhiaro> tantek: potentially
18:02:30 <cwebber2> I'm fine with a meeting next week
18:02:33 <ajordan> +1
18:02:35 <rhiaro> ... Meet next week??
18:02:35 <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
18:02:40 <cwebber2> +1
18:02:47 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> +0 not sure if I'll make it
18:03:01 <cwebber2> my promise to have the test suite up "by next meeting" applies to the 25th though :)
18:03:21 <rhiaro> tantek: telecon next week, hoepfully evan can chair
18:03:26 <ben_thatmustbeme> ajordan++
18:03:26 <Loqi> ajordan has 12 karma
18:03:30 <ajordan> :-)
18:03:58 <rhiaro> ben_thatmustbeme: section about ?? needs adding
18:04:14 <rhiaro> s/??/conformance classes
18:04:21 <rhiaro> ... to say that they actually are consuming or producing
18:04:44 <rhiaro> ... the rest is just what do you publish and do you validate
18:04:49 <rhiaro> ... I don't know what else there is to say
18:04:54 <tantek> q?
18:04:57 <rhiaro> tantek: okay
18:05:02 <rhiaro> ... any other input?
18:05:36 <rhiaro> ... Informally in irc .. chair hat off.. there was a whole discussion about social embedding widgets and the charter, but I promised I'd have something working by this week that uses jf2 to do social embedding
18:05:55 <tantek> http://tantek.com/2017/193/e1/homebrew-website-club
18:05:56 <Loqi> Homebrew Website Club SF
18:05:59 <rhiaro> ... with federated RSVPs via an embed of a series of services that are processing things including jf2
18:06:03 <rhiaro> ... scroll down
18:06:35 <rhiaro> ... the rsvps are originating on the facebook copy of the event. Bridgy is picking them up, sending a webmention
18:06:59 <rhiaro> ... and then I'm using webmention.io receiving service, and that service provides an API that returns jf2 of all the received rsvps
18:07:18 <rhiaro> ... and I'm pumping that jf2 result through another service, the stream that turns jf2 into html+mf2
18:07:22 <rhiaro> ... including an optional stylesheet
18:07:36 <rhiaro> ... and I was able to with some CSS style the rsvps that you're seeing, with peoples' faces and checkmarks
18:07:41 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek++
18:07:41 <Loqi> tantek has 64 karma in this channel (365 overall)
18:07:50 <cwebber2> q+
18:08:03 <rhiaro> ... it's a social embed in an iframe
18:08:04 <tantek> ack cwebber2
18:08:32 <rhiaro> cwebber2: it's great to see the functionality, but it seems to me that the syntax and vocab are not really the discussion of embedding right? We can do it via jf2, and we can do it via AS2, doesn't matter which we end up using
18:08:37 <rhiaro> ... The challenging thing is the API and workflow
18:08:43 <rhiaro> ... like the whole workflow of using the iframe and stuff
18:08:59 <rhiaro> ... It's great to see the implementation, but ti doesn't seem like the syntax and vocabulary is the big challenge of this
18:09:08 <rhiaro> tantek: mostly I just wanted to see if I could get it working, and then I was surprised I was
18:09:14 <rhiaro> ... I agree, those are the more important issues
18:09:19 <rhiaro> ... The cool thing here is there is no js involved
18:09:27 <rhiaro> ... just iframes, services, declarative markup, which is super powerful
18:09:41 <rhiaro> ... the specific APIs are something that needs to be figured out. more of a tech demo than any kind of design
18:09:45 <rhiaro> cwebber2: cool
18:10:28 <tantek> q?
18:10:30 <rhiaro> tantek: anything else?
18:10:31 <tantek> ack cwebber2
18:10:36 <tantek> ack cwebber
18:11:01 <rhiaro> tantek: I dno't have any PTD updates. Any others?
18:11:20 <rhiaro> ... Update from SWCG?
18:11:32 <ben_thatmustbeme> it met, informally
18:11:38 <rhiaro> cwebber2: if I can remember what we did..
18:12:26 <rhiaro> ... We ended up talking about how you do embedding
18:12:57 <rhiaro> ... Not far off what you did tantek.. via iframe, and general agreement that having either a browser extension or reader would be best, but for embedding things on a page using the iframe route makes a lot of sense
18:13:01 <ben_thatmustbeme> thats sort of out of context
18:13:16 <ben_thatmustbeme> context being for like/reply/etc
18:13:21 <rhiaro> ... one of the big challenges was should you pu tthe widgets at the top of a page or should you have a bar that lets you do like and reply for the entire page.. or buttons on each sub item on a page..
18:13:23 <ben_thatmustbeme> buttons/actions
18:13:26 <rhiaro> ... Deicded it was an implementation detail
18:13:32 <cwebber2> https://www.w3.org/2017/07/05-social-minutes.html
18:14:20 <rhiaro> sandro: after the meeting I tracked down the implementation of this that google did for web intents, and that Digital Bazaar did for identity credentials and web payments, all of which use the trusted domain iframe technquie
18:14:35 <rhiaro> ... viewing that as a polyfill until the browsers have support
18:14:39 <rhiaro> ... probably the way forward
18:14:52 <rhiaro> ... don't think this is chartered for this WG, CG problem from my perspective
18:15:01 <rhiaro> tantek: that discussion helped inspire me
18:15:19 <rhiaro> ... glad to see cross pollination
18:15:45 <rhiaro> ... Last topic is about bridging indieweb and AP.. you want a general discussion or something specific?
18:16:03 <rhiaro> ajordan: Last call Evan requested that we talka bout it in depth on a call, that's why it's on the agenda
18:16:08 <rhiaro> ... Fine to move to next week
18:16:13 <rhiaro> tantek: probably should have evan here for that
18:16:23 <rhiaro> ajordan: nothing urgent
18:16:25 <ben_thatmustbeme> kick it down the road again
18:16:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> :)
18:16:29 <rhiaro> tantek: postponing that
18:17:20 <rhiaro> ... VICTORY
18:17:34 <ajordan> rhiaro
18:17:40 <ajordan> :/
18:17:45 <ajordan> rhiaro++
18:17:45 <Loqi> rhiaro has 152 karma in this channel (270 overall)
18:18:56 <tantek> rhiaro++
18:18:56 <Loqi> rhiaro has 153 karma in this channel (271 overall)
18:19:22 <ajordan> tantek++ for chairing too!
18:19:22 <Loqi> tantek has 65 karma in this channel (366 overall)
18:19:50 <tantek> trackbot, end meeting
18:19:50 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:19:50 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been sandro, rhiaro, tsyesika, ajordan, cwebber, tantek, ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk
18:19:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:19:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/07/11-social-minutes.html trackbot
18:19:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:19:59 <RRSAgent> I see no action items