16:00:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dnt
16:00:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/06/19-dnt-irc
16:00:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:00:09 <Moneill2> Moneill2 has joined #dnt
16:00:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TRACK
16:00:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Tracking Protection Working Group Teleconference
16:00:11 <trackbot> Date: 19 June 2017
16:00:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
16:01:21 <dsinger> present+ dsinger
16:01:24 <dsinger> zakim, who is here?
16:01:24 <Zakim> Present: dsinger
16:01:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see Moneill2, RRSAgent, Zakim, fielding, dsinger, rvaneijk, hober, mkwst, hadleybeeman, adrianba, Bert, walter, trackbot
16:01:40 <dsinger> present+ moneill
16:01:49 <dsinger> present+ fielding
16:01:51 <Moneill2> present+
16:01:52 <Brendan> Brendan has joined #dnt
16:02:11 <dsinger> present+ rvaneijk
16:02:20 <dsinger> present+ aleecia
16:02:36 <dsinger> present+ brendan
16:02:59 <dsinger> present+ vincent
16:03:57 <dsinger> scribenick: aleecia
16:04:13 <at> at has joined #dnt
16:04:41 <Brendan> Brendan can scribe
16:04:48 <dsinger> scribenick: brendan
16:05:01 <Brendan> dsinger - we have 2 things on agenda
16:05:05 <Brendan> Resolution 22
16:05:09 <Brendan> Final CTA
16:05:17 <Brendan> Anything else to discuss?
16:05:24 <Brendan> What to do next?
16:05:33 <Brendan> Yes - Direct to recommendation.
16:05:46 <dsinger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2017Jun/thread.html
16:05:52 <Brendan> 3 rd topic - what to do next to get to recommendation.
16:05:58 <dsinger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2017Jun/0038.html
16:06:08 <Brendan> Dsinger: In the mail you will see 2 copies of the mail from Mattias.
16:06:20 <fielding> q+
16:06:25 <Brendan> Is there any follow-up to do.  General consensus offline seems to be "we can live with it".
16:06:42 <wileys> wileys has joined #dnt
16:06:42 <Brendan> Fielding: OK with general direction, but need to make words better
16:06:56 <rvaneijk> q+
16:07:00 <Brendan> Fielding will take action to massage the language.
16:07:27 <Brendan> Any other editorial comments?
16:07:42 <fielding> yes, that can move to privacy -- the pull request is fine
16:07:44 <Brendan> rvaneijk - section 7 is fingerprinting, should it be moved to privacy?
16:08:33 <rvaneijk> ack rvaneijk
16:08:36 <Brendan> Dsigner: Consensus.  OK, we'll move it.
16:08:43 <wileys> What was just moved to security and privacy considerations?  UGEs?
16:09:03 <rvaneijk> @wileys: 7.10 fingerprinting risk
16:09:23 <Brendan> Also we were going to change the API names?
16:09:40 <Brendan> Mike: If we are going to change the names, then we need to have a discussion to take into account the MS implementation.
16:10:05 <Brendan> The only change is confirm, the others were not existing.
16:10:29 <Brendan> If we wanted to add a line of text, the confirm can return the results immediately, to support legacy implementation.
16:11:00 <Brendan> dsinger: Roy, can you do an analysis?
16:11:24 <Brendan> Fielding: it's relatively easy to replace APIs, it's much harder to replace.
16:11:58 <Brendan> Mike: The implementation is different, because it's started at a different time.
16:12:25 <Brendan> Do we have agreement to change names? Fielding: There was discussion on issue tracker, there was consensus to change.
16:12:36 <wileys> With the understanding it breaks the MS IE implementation
16:12:43 <Brendan> dsinger: Roy, make the changes.
16:13:03 <Brendan> Fielding: Draft will be posted with all the changes, so that's cook.
16:13:12 <dsinger> and if there are open technical questions, Roy will raise with the list
16:13:27 <Brendan> dsinger: any other editorial or pending issues?
16:13:58 <Brendan> Aleecia: I don't want to hold up the draft, but there's open issue on "should" vs "may"
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16:14:25 <Brendan> Dsinger: which specific issue?
16:14:40 <fielding> https://github.com/w3c/dnt/issues/35
16:15:07 <Brendan> Aleecia: Has submitted text multiple times.  This might be it.
16:15:17 <Brendan> Aleecia: Confirmed, it's issue 35.
16:15:39 <Brendan> 6.5.8 "should" provide policy.
16:15:51 <dsinger> Thread starting https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2017May/0022.html
16:15:54 <Brendan> "should inform what changes between DNT 0 and DNT 1"
16:16:02 <wileys> Still stand by MAY as the appropriate path as not legal jurisdictions require this element
16:16:14 <wileys> not “all” legal jurisdictions
16:16:22 <dsinger> sorry, thread starts https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2017Apr/0036.html
16:16:32 <Brendan> Aleecia: I can live with what these as not diff, but prefer requiring diff.
16:16:44 <wileys> It is supposed to be!
16:16:57 <Brendan> dsinger - is UA responsible for UX?  I thought it was site.
16:17:06 <Brendan> Aleecia: Agree - it should be site not UA.
16:17:20 <wileys> +q
16:17:21 <Brendan> Fielding: I think that this is non-blocking, discussing it in parallel is fine.
16:17:46 <Brendan> Aleecia: No harm in discussing it now?
16:18:35 <Brendan> Aleecia: If I'm willing to give up "Should" and go for "May", is that fine?
16:18:39 <dsinger> Shane’s response: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2017Apr/0040.html
16:18:53 <Brendan> Fielding: I can include that, not in any huge rush.
16:19:06 <dsinger> ack w
16:19:40 <Brendan> wileys: Thanks for linking my response.  Some is appropriate in California, but rest of the world may differ.
16:20:03 <Brendan> I still side on the "may" instead of "should" to account for varying global legal environments.
16:20:19 <Brendan> Aleectia: I backed off "Must" because of IoT, where there's no UI.
16:20:55 <wileys> This language belongs in a compliance document - not the TPE
16:20:56 <Brendan> Discussion on Informed Consent.
16:20:59 <dsinger> Roy will integrate all of Issue 35 that is editorial; continued discussion of SHOULD vs. MAY
16:21:14 <wileys> Don’t disagree with the discussion - the TPE is just the wrong place for this
16:22:16 <Brendan> wileys: The use of "should" is a compliance decision.  It shouldn't be in TPE.  The use of "may" is neutral, and enables the scenario in varying jurisdictions.
16:22:29 <fielding> q+
16:22:30 <Brendan> The technical specification is not where we need to dictate compliance.
16:22:50 <Brendan> Aleecia: Since technical spec is the only one we have, it's the only place we can put it.
16:22:51 <wileys> +q
16:23:10 <Brendan> Mike: Can't see why there's objection to this.
16:23:15 <dsinger> q?
16:23:19 <fielding> I just wanted to say that we could add examples and an explanation of how to use the compliance array.
16:23:22 <dsinger> ack f
16:23:38 <Brendan> Fielding: We could add examples on how people can use the compliance array.
16:23:58 <Brendan> The reason for not making it normative is to constrain the space in which compliance would be implemented.
16:24:12 <Brendan> We'd have to agree to one universal standard.  This isn't the way of the world.
16:24:35 <Brendan> discussion about examples / best practices.
16:24:37 <dsinger> ack w
16:25:16 <Brendan> wileys: we do still have a compliance doc, but we've decided not to go forward with.
16:25:37 <Brendan> dsinger: Wileys - can you make example?
16:25:52 <Brendan> Wileys: Maybe aleecia: Aleecia, you OK with making this examples?
16:26:00 <Brendan> Aleecia: Yeah.  I can live with.
16:26:15 <Brendan> Dsigner: Please work to make normative may and non-normative examples?
16:26:35 <rvaneijk> q-
16:27:03 <Brendan> Wileys: OK with "may" in the normative text, and non-normative examples.
16:27:58 <Brendan> Fielding: It's already possible to include a compliance spec.  Anyone can provide a compliance spec.
16:28:18 <Brendan> dsigner: Aleecia, wileys, fielding - put something together?
16:28:41 <wileys> That text should be placed in the compliance and scope document
16:28:59 <dsinger> let’s try changing SHOULD to MAY, leave UX with the site not UA, add an example
16:29:00 <Brendan> Aleecia - I was imagining two changes to text in 35: "should" to "may" and change the party responsible from UA to Site.
16:29:11 <wileys> Attempts to pull C&SD text into the TPE doesn’t make sense
16:29:13 <Brendan> Aleecia: plus add example.
16:29:36 <Brendan> dsigner: while this is redundant, it's probably useful.
16:29:37 <wileys> Examples of how the Compliance array is a great way to go in a technical specification
16:30:17 <Brendan> dsinger: If this is done in a day or so, we can probably include by end of week
16:30:30 <Brendan> dsigner: Make the incantations!
16:30:33 <rvaneijk> from aleecia to everyone: Scribing here,  from aleecia to everyone: Roy: ok with general direction but would like to fix working.  from aleecia to everyone: David: you'll take the action to polish? from aleecia to everyone: Roy: yes from aleecia to everyone: ... will get that done this week. from aleecia to everyone: David: other things needed before 2nd CR? from aleecia to everyone: Rob: editorial, section on fingering printing could move from section 7.1[CUT]
16:31:35 <wileys> wileys has left #dnt
16:31:50 <Brendan> Aleecia notes:
16:32:08 <Brendan> to be sent via email.
16:48:45 <fielding> Aleecia's notes are are at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tracking/2017Jun/0044.html
16:48:55 <fielding> zakim, list attendees
16:48:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dsinger, moneill, fielding, rvaneijk, aleecia, brendan, vincent
16:49:29 <fielding> present+ wiley
16:50:08 <fielding> zakim, list attendees
16:50:08 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dsinger, moneill, fielding, rvaneijk, aleecia, brendan, vincent, wiley
16:50:40 <fielding> trackbot, end meeting
16:50:40 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:50:40 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dsinger, moneill, fielding, rvaneijk, aleecia, brendan, vincent, wiley
16:50:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:50:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/19-dnt-minutes.html trackbot
16:50:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:50:49 <RRSAgent> I see no action items