IRC log of social on 2017-06-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:00:18 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #social
17:00:18 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/06/06-social-irc
17:00:20 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:00:20 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #social
17:00:22 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SOCL
17:00:22 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot
17:00:23 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
17:00:23 [trackbot]
Date: 06 June 2017
17:00:26 [ajordan]
see ya next week cwebber2!
17:00:26 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: no problem :)
17:00:31 [ajordan]
I just skimmed the new section
17:02:05 [tantek]
be right there :)
17:02:06 [Loqi]
tantek: saranix left you a message 4 days, 14 hours ago: I was wondering what were the reasons that W3 started switching to github 'issues' and what are they 'switching' from?
17:02:20 [ajordan]
present+
17:02:32 [sandro]
present+
17:02:42 [ben_thatmustbeme]
present+
17:02:45 [tantek]
present+
17:03:09 [tantek]
zakim, who is here?
17:03:09 [Zakim]
Present: ajordan, sandro, ben_thatmustbeme, tantek
17:03:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, tantek, jankusanagi_, KjetilK, ajordan, saper, wilkie, tcit, ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk, MMN-o, jaywink, bwn, sknebel, albino, saranix, rhiaro,
17:03:11 [Zakim]
... astronouth7303, cwebber2, sandro, Gargron, mattl, DenSchub, trackbot, csarven, nightpool, raucao, jet, bigbluehat, dwhly, bitbear, lambadalambda, Loqi
17:05:09 [ben_thatmustbeme]
i can scribe
17:05:19 [ben_thatmustbeme]
scribenick: ben_thatmustbeme
17:05:24 [ben_thatmustbeme]
scribe: Ben Roberts
17:05:26 [ben_thatmustbeme]
Chair: tantek
17:05:33 [tantek]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-05-30-minutes
17:05:35 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: I can scribe while we talk about JF2 if you want
17:05:35 [ben_thatmustbeme]
TOPIC: review of minutes of last week
17:06:00 [sandro]
+1
17:06:07 [tantek]
+1
17:06:13 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1
17:06:34 [ajordan]
+1
17:07:03 [rhiaro]
present+
17:07:25 [ben_thatmustbeme]
RESOLVED: accept https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-05-30-minutes of minutes from last week
17:07:37 [ben_thatmustbeme]
TOPIC: update for extension
17:08:07 [ben_thatmustbeme]
sandro: no update yet, i created a new w3c.social mastodon instance to hopefully show some support
17:08:21 [ben_thatmustbeme]
... not sure how to show off that link
17:08:31 [ben_thatmustbeme]
tantek: well at least on the WG website
17:08:47 [ben_thatmustbeme]
sandro: i don't think that would be noticablel enough
17:08:52 [ben_thatmustbeme]
ajordan: twitter?
17:08:56 [ben_thatmustbeme]
sandro: oh yeah
17:09:05 [ben_thatmustbeme]
(laughs all around)
17:09:14 [ben_thatmustbeme]
TOPIC: specs
17:09:28 [ben_thatmustbeme]
tantek: with cwebber2 not here i don't know we can do much on activitypub
17:09:37 [ben_thatmustbeme]
... anyone have any hot topics to raise on it
17:09:52 [ben_thatmustbeme]
ajordan: nothing has been raised recently in the issues
17:10:11 [ajordan]
q+
17:10:15 [ben_thatmustbeme]
tantek: we don't have aaronpk or julien here, so i don't know we can do much with websub
17:10:39 [ajordan]
q+ to mention the direct-message issue resolution
17:10:41 [aaronpk]
not on the call, but my only update is that pfefferle submitted an implementationreport for wordpress https://github.com/w3c/websub/blob/master/implementation-reports/PUBLISHER-wordpress-pubsubhubbub.md
17:10:42 [ben_thatmustbeme]
... aaronpk did get some websub implementation report for wordpress
17:10:48 [ben_thatmustbeme]
... its a plugin for worpress
17:10:51 [aaronpk]
also julien seems to have just gone through a bunch of websub issues
17:10:58 [aaronpk]
so there is more to discuss on github
17:11:15 [tantek]
ack ajordan
17:11:15 [Zakim]
ajordan, you wanted to mention the direct-message issue resolution
17:11:31 [ajordan]
https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/196
17:11:32 [Loqi]
[annando] #196 How to differentiate between posts and private (direct) messages?
17:11:42 [ben_thatmustbeme]
ajordan: i happen to have last weeks minutes open, and we were goign to discuss the direct message issue
17:11:51 [ajordan]
https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/196#issuecomment-304958984
17:11:51 [Loqi]
[cwebber] Note that Pump.io already does this, and I think this may be the answer: inbox is still used for federation, but multiple streams can be presented to the user in terms of inbox / the "major" feed (which is all the main posts and comments and etc) / t...
17:11:53 [ben_thatmustbeme]
... i just wanted to mention it because it seems like its been resolved
17:12:08 [ben_thatmustbeme]
.. it seems like everyone is on the same page
17:12:37 [ben_thatmustbeme]
tantek: sounds good, i leave it cwebber2 to prompt the original opener to ask if they are satisfied
17:13:09 [ben_thatmustbeme]
tantek: but good to see the updates there
17:13:47 [ben_thatmustbeme]
tantek: the only thing i have to report on post type discovery is in a little bit of messaging with sandro, i have had some ...
17:14:31 [ben_thatmustbeme]
... mastodon works well with other mastodon instances, but not much with others outside of mastodon
17:14:43 [ben_thatmustbeme]
sandro: some others have written plugins to make it work here and there
17:14:49 [rhiaro]
PostActiv is not GNU Social but is OStatus, also works, I think that counts
17:14:56 [ben_thatmustbeme]
tantek: does mastodon have a character limit?
17:15:05 [ben_thatmustbeme]
sandro: yes, but only on the input
17:15:14 [sandro]
(I think)
17:15:50 [ben_thatmustbeme]
tantek: if we were to hlep make mastodon accept webmention, it would need to figure those out by post type discovery or a subset of the PTD algorithm
17:16:20 [ben_thatmustbeme]
... i think i will look in to doing that subset, and it should be even easier to get more interop on it
17:16:25 [tantek]
agenda+ interop
17:16:38 [ben_thatmustbeme]
sandro: since we have such an open agenda, i wonder if we could talk more on that
17:16:46 [ben_thatmustbeme]
TOPIC: JF2
17:17:00 [tantek]
scribenick: ajordan
17:18:09 [sandro]
q+
17:18:30 [ajordan]
scribe: AJ Jordan
17:18:31 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: two of the guys behind micro.blog ??? RSS and Atom released(?) JSON Feed
17:18:32 [ajordan]
... looking at it there was very little difference, but there are some values differently. most of it is a change in vocabulary
17:18:56 [tantek]
s/???/Manton Reece & Brent Simmons, who have implemented
17:19:20 [tantek]
ack sandro
17:21:34 [ajordan_]
ajordan_ has joined #social
17:21:40 [ben_thatmustbeme]
https://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social
17:21:43 [ben_thatmustbeme]
oops
17:21:50 [ajordan_]
scribenick: ajordan_
17:21:54 [ben_thatmustbeme]
http://dissolve.github.io/jf2/#jsonfeed_to_jf2feed
17:23:10 [ajordan]
... I added a section that defines a profile that pretty much matches JSON Feed
17:23:18 [ajordan]
... people can turn microformats into JF2 that way, and can use things like JSON Feed
17:23:22 [ajordan]
... I'd like to publish a new WD of it for that reason
17:23:25 [ajordan]
... let's see if we can unify JSON Feed and JF2 a little more
17:23:28 [ajordan]
sandro: great thing to work on ben_thatmustbeme, I'm curious what you mean when you say "pretty much"
17:23:30 [ajordan]
... why can't it be the same?
17:23:33 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: for anyone using JSON Feed you have to break on anything you don't recognize
17:23:35 [ajordan]
... in JSON Feed any extensions have to be prefixed with an _
17:24:07 [sandro]
sandro: the _prefix this is an anti-pattern, like x-foo headers
17:24:16 [tantek]
q?
17:24:19 [sandro]
sandro: also, version numbers? no thanks!
17:24:35 [ajordan]
... the other is mainly vocabulary. either you have to start adding JF2 vocab that isn't referenced anywhere out of JSON Feed, or you convert it over
17:24:44 [ajordan]
... there's a section on how to convert it
17:25:15 [ajordan]
scribenick: ajordan
17:26:12 [ajordan]
tantek: great work ben_thatmustbeme on JF2, in particular in finding a profile for JF2 that gets it very close to JSON Feed while keeping it generic AFAICT
17:26:21 [ajordan]
... to the point where essentially it's mostly a property renaming conversion
17:26:32 [ajordan]
... as sandro pointed out this is mostly just a few lines of code
17:26:51 [ajordan]
... generally I think this is an excellent approach to take to kinda bring add'l efforts into interop with our specs
17:27:14 [sandro]
q+ to ask about jf2->html & media type
17:27:15 [ajordan]
... we see where you are, we specify things in the direction you're talking about, and we specify how to interop.
17:27:31 [ajordan]
... I really like us saying this publicly
17:27:48 [ajordan]
... don't read issue 49 on JF2 right now, but basically it's a massive flamewar
17:27:56 [ajordan]
s/JF2/JSON Feed/
17:28:15 [ajordan]
... where someone said "here's how to fix your spec" instead of trying to work with them
17:28:28 [tantek]
q?
17:28:30 [ajordan]
... I think ben_thatmustbeme's approach is better in the long term and builds community better
17:28:31 [tantek]
ack sandro
17:28:31 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to ask about jf2->html & media type
17:29:01 [ajordan]
sandro: I haven't really been paying attention to JF2 since it didn't seem to matter in the way I saw the universe until recently
17:29:09 [ajordan]
... is there code that converts JF2 to HTML?
17:29:17 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: there certainly can be? I've written some
17:29:42 [ajordan]
... it basically takes HTML microformats and puts it into JSON
17:29:47 [ajordan]
... you could go back to HTML
17:29:55 [ajordan]
... it's completely vocabulary-independent
17:30:05 [ajordan]
... the idea of doing the profile is now you have things because you say "this field'
17:30:19 [ajordan]
s/field'/field's `url` has to be a URL/
17:30:26 [ajordan]
... now it becomes much more useful
17:30:48 [ajordan]
... a lot of what aaronpk and ??? have been doing is using additional requirements that haven't been codified everywhere
17:31:00 [ajordan]
... perhaps another profile that says "this is how you represent an object"
17:31:05 [sandro]
application/json+jf2feed
17:31:21 [ajordan]
sandro: so something could have a media type something like that? if you were passing around?
17:31:35 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: yeah and I actually define that as the media type
17:32:04 [ajordan]
sandro: IndieWeb community is fine with microformats but there are lots of people who'd rather pass around JSON
17:32:11 [ajordan]
... this seems like a good bridge between worlds
17:32:28 [ajordan]
... if someone was gonna modify Mastodon to export something that interop'd with IWC stuff
17:32:38 [ajordan]
... the proper way would be to change the HTML
17:32:43 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: Mastodon already has all the markup
17:32:59 [ajordan]
... I can see someone using a separate service that did all that conversion for me
17:33:18 [ajordan]
... just make rel=alternate for this page <some-url>?convert=<this page>
17:33:33 [ajordan]
... then you only have to maintain one codebase cause all it does is run through the standard parsing and convert
17:33:46 [tantek]
q?
17:34:15 [tantek]
http://dissolve.github.io/jf2/#changes-from-28-july-2016-fpwd-to-this-version
17:34:25 [ajordan]
tantek: ben_thatmustbeme you put in a request to publish a new JF2 WD?
17:34:29 [ajordan]
... my next question is the change log
17:34:34 [sandro]
q+ to suggest adding media type registration appendix
17:34:55 [tantek]
ack sandro
17:34:55 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to suggest adding media type registration appendix
17:35:07 [ajordan]
... Security Considerations is good
17:35:24 [ajordan]
sandro: do you want to go ahead and add the media type registration information into this section? that seems reasonable
17:35:32 [ajordan]
application/json+jf2feed
17:35:45 [ajordan]
s/application/... application/
17:35:51 [ajordan]
... there's an example of how to use it, but there isn't the thing to register it with IANA
17:36:09 [ajordan]
tantek: if you look at ActivityStreams I believe that has a registration for a similar media type
17:36:20 [sandro]
https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#media-type
17:36:21 [ajordan]
... application/json+as2?
17:36:27 [ajordan]
... probably a good place to copy stuff from
17:36:38 [ajordan]
sandro: actually +json goes on the end
17:36:43 [ajordan]
... activity+json
17:36:50 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: I thought the order didn't matter?
17:36:58 [ajordan]
sandro: I think the order matters very much
17:37:12 [ajordan]
tantek: I think it's just an opaque string and any introspection of that string is just convention?
17:37:16 [ajordan]
... probably an RFC about it
17:37:24 [ajordan]
sandro: I think there's an RFC about +xml
17:37:33 [ben_thatmustbeme]
sandro++
17:37:33 [Loqi]
sandro has 43 karma in this channel (50 overall)
17:37:34 [ajordan]
... if it ends in +xml you can parse it as XML
17:37:39 [ajordan]
... probably one for JSON too
17:37:59 [ajordan]
tantek: good catch, don't want multiple, possibly malformed MIME types
17:38:27 [ajordan]
tantek: would you be okay publishing that working draft? with an Appendix and such?
17:38:47 [ajordan]
tantek: sandro does this sound good to you to publish a new WD with the changes you requested?
17:39:13 [tantek]
PROPOSED: Publish new jf2 WD including changes requested to fix content-type and add an appendix for the IANA registration of the application/jf2+json content-type
17:39:26 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1
17:39:27 [ajordan]
+1
17:39:33 [sandro]
+1
17:40:51 [tantek]
RESOLVED: Publish new jf2 WD including changes requested to fix content-type and add an appendix for the IANA registration of the application/jf2+json content-type
17:40:54 [wilkie]
+1
17:41:14 [tantek]
agenda?
17:41:24 [ajordan]
tantek: CG chairs aren't here so let's go to interop
17:41:24 [tantek]
topic: interop
17:41:38 [ajordan]
sandro: today I was thinking interop between Mastodon and IWC sites
17:41:46 [ajordan]
... what needs to happen to make that work?
17:41:59 [ajordan]
... obviously there's a bunch of stuff around Webfinger that ben_thatmustbeme and I have been talking about
17:42:05 [sandro]
- webfinger
17:42:13 [ajordan]
... without necessarily going into that what are the major ones
17:42:22 [ben_thatmustbeme]
q+ to talk about various parts
17:42:40 [tantek]
ack ben_thatmustbeme
17:42:40 [Zakim]
ben_thatmustbeme, you wanted to talk about various parts
17:42:42 [ajordan]
... salmentions, I get lost as to what they're used for
17:43:01 [ben_thatmustbeme]
not sure why my mic isn't working
17:43:21 [ben_thatmustbeme]
brb
17:43:27 [ajordan]
sandro: because someone asked you a question, that's why your mic isn't working?
17:44:37 [tantek]
aside: PTD issue filed for RTD https://github.com/tantek/post-type-discovery/issues/24
17:44:37 [Loqi]
[tantek] #24 add a subset algorithm for Response Type Discovery
17:44:48 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: starting with IndieWeb being able to read from Mastodon
17:44:50 [ajordan]
... for context
17:45:06 [ajordan]
... if an IndieWeb site replies to someone on Mastodon they can read any post for the context of where they were
17:45:24 [ajordan]
... the piece that's missing there is if an IndieWeb site replies to Mastodon, they're gonna send a Webmention to Mastodon and not find an endpoint
17:45:41 [ajordan]
... Mastodon just needs a working Webmention endpoint that would take in comments on their posts from outside
17:45:55 [tantek]
and that's where Mastodon will need Response Type Discovery to turn the Webmention into a reply, like, repost
17:45:55 [ajordan]
... the other biggest limitation is being able to reply to something that's not on Mastodon
17:46:02 [ajordan]
... you have no way to reply to "a URL"
17:46:10 [ajordan]
sandro: can a Mastodon user even see anything outside?
17:46:19 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: it seems they can if you add certain bits to your website?
17:46:28 [ajordan]
... seems that Mastodon only gets posts via WebSub and ???
17:46:48 [ajordan]
... I haven't tried subscribing to a non-Mastodon instance and then replying to it to see if you even can reply
17:47:09 [ajordan]
... the GitHub issues seemed to indicate you _could_ if it had a Salmon endpoint? and if that's there it should show up as they're able to reply to it?
17:47:19 [ajordan]
... right now you can just "mention" someone which is obviously missing
17:47:33 [tantek]
q+ to note or adding Webmention discovery as an option / fall back if Salmon is missing
17:47:34 [ajordan]
... and sending Webmentions when they do that I guess would instead be over Salmon
17:47:48 [ajordan]
sandro: it sounds like if we're gonna change this on the Mastodon side one would have to add basically h-feed parsing
17:47:51 [ajordan]
... and Webmention
17:47:55 [ajordan]
... into Mastodon
17:48:14 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: I think Mastodon is Ruby right?
17:48:21 [ajordan]
... so I did rewrite the entire Ruby mf2 parser
17:48:28 [ajordan]
... it's much more stable, should do everything they need
17:48:40 [ajordan]
... it's even already included as a dev dep, because it's used for the testing
17:48:53 [tantek]
Mastodon already has the mf2 parser in core for testing?
17:48:53 [ajordan]
sandro: so we have no idea at this point whether they're amenable to adding these things
17:48:58 [ajordan]
... we could add them to an instance
17:49:12 [ajordan]
... upgrading decentralized systems is so hard... you gotta get everyone on board
17:49:21 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: getting everyone in the same room is tricky too
17:49:33 [ajordan]
tantek: seems like a proof of concept would be nice to show usefulness
17:49:43 [ajordan]
sandro: yeah having it on some instances and then sending patches seems useful
17:49:53 [ajordan]
... sometimes devs want to be involved early on and sometimes they want to wait
17:50:11 [ajordan]
tantek: ben_thatmustbeme have you filed issues on Mastodon based on this analysis?
17:50:25 [ajordan]
... since you've already done a bunch of work getting the mf2 there
17:50:31 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: I started on Micropub support
17:50:48 [ajordan]
... seems like it's an easier piece to tackle and avoids a lot of this stuff since it's just client to server
17:50:58 [ajordan]
... other than that no
17:51:11 [tantek]
ack tantek
17:51:11 [Zakim]
tantek, you wanted to note or adding Webmention discovery as an option / fall back if Salmon is missing
17:51:19 [ajordan]
sandro: it'll only participate in sites that offer Salmon, but one would argue there's a case for Salmon and Webmention
17:51:23 [tantek]
because Sandro already said it
17:51:28 [ajordan]
... they don't want people to comment on dead sites
17:51:42 [ajordan]
... this brings me back to "what is Salmention for"?
17:51:58 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: Webmention simply says when you create a post you gotta notify who you reference
17:52:05 [ajordan]
... if I reply to you my code notifies your endpoint
17:52:15 [ajordan]
... if someone responds to me they're gonna notify me but it never gets back to you
17:52:21 [ajordan]
... if you want to know the full thread you don't have that info
17:52:33 [ajordan]
sandro: it would if A is the first post, B is a reply to that, and C is a reply to that
17:52:37 [ajordan]
... C doesn't get back to A
17:52:44 [ajordan]
... C notifies B via Webmention
17:53:08 [tantek]
https://indieweb.org/salmention
17:53:23 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: you've just defined salmention
17:53:38 [ajordan]
... when you get an update, send a Webmention again
17:54:03 [ajordan]
sandro: ???
17:54:11 [ajordan]
tantek: I think that's the part that's different
17:54:15 [sandro]
https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#sending-webmentions-for-updated-posts
17:55:05 [ben_thatmustbeme]
https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#updating-existing-webmentions
17:55:07 [ajordan]
... there's a Webmention CRUD protocol which is for updates to your post (stuff that you wrote)
17:55:25 [ajordan]
... salmention expands that and specifies how and when to send mentions for stuff you receive to your post
17:55:31 [ajordan]
sandro: through a strange lens
17:55:38 [ajordan]
... when you update a page, you send all the mentions on the page
17:55:56 [ajordan]
... I would say salmention is "when there is a reply, you should link to it from your page too, everything else follows"
17:56:14 [ajordan]
tantek: when the post initially sends out Webmentions, it has no responses yet
17:56:20 [ajordan]
... it's a noop
17:56:29 [ajordan]
sandro: when B is created, it sends a reply to A
17:56:38 [ajordan]
... when C is created, it's gonna send a mention to B
17:56:53 [ajordan]
... when B gets that Webmention from C it's gonna update the page to include "C is a reply to me"
17:57:06 [ajordan]
... because it's changed its content it's going to send a mention to A (and C)
17:57:10 [ajordan]
... because it's been modified
17:57:30 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: I always interpreted it as "webmention says you _may_ send a webmention again if you send updates"
17:57:37 [ajordan]
... you should if you update your own content
17:57:43 [ajordan]
... you may if you receive from others
17:57:50 [ajordan]
... salmention basically says "you must if you receive from others"
17:57:52 [tantek]
https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#sending-webmentions-for-updated-posts
17:58:06 [ajordan]
sandro: how do you detect that salmentions are being implmented by peers?
17:58:13 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: you'll be receiving webmentions for post updates
17:58:22 [ajordan]
sandro: which as I read the webmention spec you already should do
17:58:30 [ajordan]
... if you're changing a SHOULD to a MUST that's undetectable
17:58:38 [tantek]
https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/#updating-existing-webmentions
17:58:59 [ajordan]
tantek: so here's the link in webmention where it mentions salmentions(?)
17:59:15 [ajordan]
... I think the difference here sandro is, is a webmention sent in response to receiving a webmention
17:59:21 [ajordan]
... which is why it's different for implementations
17:59:38 [ajordan]
... specifically that knowledge of "oh I've got other stuff that's depending on me"
17:59:52 [ajordan]
sandro: I don't get it, it seems like you'd have to do that anyway if you're being a good webmention citizen
17:59:59 [ajordan]
... maybe I understand webmention differently somehow
18:00:10 [ajordan]
tantek: reading webmention it does allow impl'
18:00:19 [ajordan]
s/impl'/impl's to send update only when the content changes/
18:00:21 [ajordan]
... that's intentional
18:00:30 [ajordan]
... you're expanding requirements
18:00:52 [ajordan]
... sending webmentions at all is something implementations aren't required to do
18:00:55 [ajordan]
... they could send mentions for some links but not all and still be conformant
18:01:07 [ajordan]
... sending mentions for stuff you link to but not stuff in comments seems okay
18:01:18 [ajordan]
... e.g. "I don't want to send random links people put in my comments"
18:01:23 [ajordan]
... salmention _does_ require that
18:01:46 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: it does seem that a lot of that stuff made it in the webmention spec
18:02:27 [ajordan]
tantek: there's sending a salmention, which is sending a webmention in response to sending a webmention
18:02:39 [ajordan]
... then there's receiving a webmention for something you yourself sent a webmention too
18:02:54 [ajordan]
ben_thatmustbeme: there's the additional piece where receiving a webmention might not just be an update to the content
18:03:20 [ajordan]
... if you have links in a comment thread, you may not send webmentions
18:03:31 [ajordan]
sandro: so this only comes up in a situation where there's A B C and D?
18:03:37 [ajordan]
tantek: no it comes up in A B and C
18:03:43 [ajordan]
... salmentions solve the SWAT0 problem
18:03:49 [ajordan]
... A posts a photo of B
18:03:54 [ajordan]
... tags B in the photo
18:03:57 [ajordan]
... C comments on the photo
18:04:15 [ben_thatmustbeme]
ajordan++ for taking a hard day of scribing
18:04:15 [Loqi]
ajordan has 4 karma
18:06:48 [ajordan_]
tantek: if B comments on A, B sends a webmention to A
18:07:58 [ajordan_]
scribenick: ajordan_
18:08:10 [ajordan]
... as a result B gets a salmention that there's a comment on the photo
18:08:11 [ajordan]
... that's the usecase that inspired the protocol
18:08:12 [ajordan]
sandro: so A would get notified that B had changed
18:08:14 [ajordan]
... if B included that content from C
18:08:16 [ben_thatmustbeme]
If a response to the source URL is shown on the source URL page (e.g. as a comment), then sender should treat that as an update of the source URL and re-send any previously sent Webmentions.
18:08:17 [ajordan]
tantek: B doesn't have any content
18:08:20 [ajordan]
... just happens to be in A's post
18:08:22 [ajordan]
sandro: B is a user who's in A's post?
18:08:24 [ajordan]
tantek: correct
18:08:26 [ajordan]
... C comments on A's post
18:08:28 [ajordan]
... /replied to
18:09:15 [ajordan]
sandro: in response to that A changed their content to show a link to that comment?
18:09:17 [ajordan]
... the webmention requirement at that point is that A send a webmention again and that includes B
18:09:27 [ajordan_]
tantek: assumption is impl's will do the minimum to get it to work. salmention expands requirements
18:09:43 [tantek]
https://indieweb.org/Salmentions
18:11:03 [ajordan_]
q+
18:14:18 [ajordan_]
tantek: sandro from your description/reading of webmention and trying to see things from your perspective
18:14:31 [ajordan_]
... I see how a lot of what salmention is trying to solve is at least present in the spec
18:14:35 [ajordan_]
... if not completely explicit
18:14:40 [ajordan_]
... webmention is already a REC
18:14:59 [ajordan_]
... one q I'd like to ask is: would adding more details to the sections you've cited just to make it clear that that's the expectation
18:15:14 [ajordan_]
... is that the kind of thing we could do an errata for? would we need webmention 1.1?
18:15:29 [ajordan_]
... I'm asking you sandro since you're the one that pointed out you see this in the existing spec
18:15:41 [ajordan_]
sandro: whether there's an eratta or 1.1 has to do with how other people see it
18:15:55 [ajordan_]
... if other people see it as being there we could do eratta
18:16:07 [timbl]
timbl has joined #social
18:16:11 [tantek]
q?
18:16:17 [tantek]
ack ajordan_
18:16:18 [ajordan_]
tantek: I vaguely recollect there being something in the test suite about this?
18:18:49 [ajordan_]
q+
18:19:08 [tantek]
ack ajordan_
18:20:29 [tantek]
https://webmention.net/implementation-reports/summary/
18:20:45 [ajordan_]
tantek: so if you scroll down to receiver tests
18:20:48 [ajordan_]
... and sender tests
18:20:55 [ajordan_]
... there are tests for salmention extensions
18:21:10 [ben_thatmustbeme]
that was just a check box as i remember
18:21:14 [ajordan_]
... so it'll test salmention stuff though as sandro pointed out there seems to be overlap
18:21:29 [ajordan_]
... there are a couple impl's from outside the WG
18:21:57 [ajordan_]
sandro: maybe people implemented it and didn't even know they were implementing it then
18:22:10 [ajordan_]
tantek: we definitely don't have time to revise the spec by the end of this month
18:22:21 [ajordan_]
... but we'll find out in 1-2 weeks if we get the charter extension
18:22:43 [ajordan_]
... one thing I've been advocating for is that any WG that gets extended do maintenance on their specs
18:23:00 [ajordan_]
... if there are missing pieces we can cross that bridge when we get there
18:23:06 [ajordan_]
... file issues accordingly against webmention
18:23:33 [ajordan_]
... if we do need to add a few words here or there to clarify terminology we can make a judgement call as to whether it's errata or 1.0.1 or 1.1
18:23:47 [ajordan_]
... sandro can double-check this but I believe that would be within the charter's scope?
18:24:11 [ajordan_]
... so if we got extended we'd be allowed to do that. though if we did 1.1 we'd be required to go through the full WD->CR cycle
18:24:14 [tantek]
q?
18:24:24 [ajordan_]
sandro: I believe that'd be within scope but let's deal with that later
18:24:40 [ben_thatmustbeme]
sandro++ good discussion
18:25:35 [tantek]
sandro++
18:25:35 [Loqi]
sandro has 44 karma in this channel (51 overall)
18:25:49 [ajordan_]
sandro++
18:25:49 [Loqi]
sandro has 45 karma in this channel (52 overall)
18:25:50 [tantek]
ajordan++ for scribing an extra long telcon!
18:25:50 [Loqi]
ajordan has 5 karma
18:26:00 [ben_thatmustbeme]
ajordan++
18:26:16 [ajordan_]
lol
18:26:52 [sandro]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2017-06-07
18:27:52 [tantek]
trackbot, end meeting
18:27:52 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
18:27:52 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been ajordan, sandro, ben_thatmustbeme, tantek, rhiaro
18:28:00 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:28:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/06/06-social-minutes.html trackbot
18:28:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
18:28:01 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items