17:01:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #social
17:01:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/05/30-social-irc
17:01:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:01:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #social
17:01:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SOCL
17:01:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
17:01:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
17:01:50 <trackbot> Date: 30 May 2017
17:01:56 <eprodrom> present+
17:02:16 <sandro> present+
17:02:19 <ajordan> present+
17:02:30 <eprodrom> cwebber2: are you calling in?
17:02:36 <cwebber2> eprodrom:  yes
17:02:40 <eprodrom> Awesome
17:02:56 <eprodrom> scribe?
17:03:13 <sandro> scribe: sandro
17:03:38 <sandro> scribenick: sandro
17:03:52 <cwebber2> present+
17:04:18 <ben_thatmustbeme> present+
17:04:31 <aaronpk> present+
17:05:20 <eprodrom> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-05-30
17:05:41 <sandro> eprodrom: This is our new meeting time
17:05:46 <eprodrom> TOPIC: Approval of previous minutes
17:05:50 <tantek> tantek has joined #social
17:06:04 <eprodrom> PROPOSED: approve https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-05-23-minutes as minutes for 23 May 2017 meeting
17:06:41 <sandro> +1
17:06:42 <eprodrom> +1
17:06:45 <tantek> good morning
17:06:46 <tantek> present+
17:06:54 <cwebber2> +1
17:07:02 <ajordan> +1
17:07:04 <tantek> +1 from what I recall reading it later that day
17:07:08 <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
17:07:12 <aaronpk> +1
17:07:23 <eprodrom> RESOLVED: approve https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-05-23-minutes as minutes for 23 May 2017 meeting
17:08:29 <sandro> sandro: Please keep trying to find AC Reps to vote
17:08:47 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/socialweb-exnt/
17:08:56 <sandro> (access controlled link)
17:09:11 <sandro> until June 16
17:09:31 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/Member/ACList
17:10:17 <sandro> I think Evan can read this, but maybe not.
17:10:21 <sandro> tantek: curious
17:10:38 <eprodrom_> eprodrom_ has joined #social
17:11:22 <tantek> can you see this? https://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=33280
17:11:22 <ben_thatmustbeme> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Member/List
17:11:39 <sandro> eprodrom: okay, we'll try to figure out who we know
17:12:03 <sandro> sandro: to remind them to give feedback
17:12:09 <ajordan> tantek: not authorized for me
17:12:46 <sandro> tantek: we'd love feedback as part of those conversations as well
17:12:55 <sandro> topic: Next Telcon
17:12:58 <sandro> June 6
17:13:34 <sandro> topic: ActivityPub
17:13:39 <sandro> eprodrom: test suite?
17:14:09 <sandro> cwebber2: life took over, family emergency, etc, still not ready
17:14:29 <sandro> ... one issue for discussion
17:14:51 <tantek> eprodrom_ vs eprodrom
17:15:02 <cwebber2> https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/225
17:15:03 <Loqi> [brianolson] #225 Needs provisions for encrypting content for privacy
17:15:16 <sandro> cwebber2: someone's asking for end-to-end encryption
17:15:18 <eprodrom> Fixed!
17:15:32 <sandro> cwebber2: Can we say it's worth exploring, but not feasible in the spec at this time
17:15:35 <sandro> +1
17:15:40 <ajordan> +1
17:16:14 <sandro> eprodrom: If you literally are going to encrypt activities as posted to your outbox, so they're only readable to recipients who know it, the server couldn't do the routing
17:16:20 <cwebber2> https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/225#issuecomment-304938193
17:16:20 <Loqi> [cwebber] So there are two ways to encrypt things.  You can encrypt things between servers, which is done via SSL/TLS.  You could also give each user a public/private keypair on the server, but at that point you're nearly in "as good/bad" of a situation as HTT...
17:16:37 <sandro> cwebber2: I think I captured that in the issue.
17:17:03 <sandro> .. If you just want an encrypted wrapper, we could maybe support that in extension, but s2s side effects wouldn't work
17:17:21 <sandro> .. server can't, eg, increase likes, add someone to list, etc
17:17:37 <sandro> .. encrypted wrapper would have lots of side effects.  Just delivery of an object.
17:17:57 <sandro> eprodrom: it would be possible to do encrypted-content property
17:18:38 <sandro> .. or to have an encrypted-note type, that has much of the same properties as node, but we expected 'content' value to be opaque.  That would cover much of what people expect from end-to-end.
17:19:17 <sandro> cwebber2: or encrypted-payload field, with json object.
17:19:44 <sandro> .. like email, as far as envelope being visible
17:20:06 <sandro> .. still, not something we're going to do in this WG
17:20:13 <tantek> runyourownserver++ :)
17:20:14 <Loqi> runyourownserver has 1 karma
17:20:14 <sandro> eprodrom: the usual answer is 'run your own server'
17:20:34 <sandro> eprodrom: I agree, closing that
17:21:14 <sandro> sandro: invite commenter to propose extension in CG
17:21:15 <sandro> cwebber2: Sure
17:21:33 <sandro> cwebber2: I will have a better update next week
17:21:54 <sandro> ajordan: Did we ever cover Direct-Message issue?
17:22:02 <tantek> issue number?
17:22:07 <cwebber2> https://github.com/w3c/activitypub/issues/196
17:22:07 <Loqi> [annando] #196 How to differentiate between posts and private (direct) messages?
17:22:39 <sandro> ajordan:We talked about this, but I can't remember what we said
17:22:46 <tantek> ajordan, you can bring up any substantive issue in github on our CRs, the agenda items for those specs are inclusive of that "open issues"
17:23:23 <sandro> cwebber2: evan made the case we covered this with to,bto,cc,bcc
17:23:42 <sandro> ajordan: Let's remember our state on this for next week
17:24:03 <sandro> eprodrom: it was two weeks ago
17:24:15 <sandro> ajordan: let's move on for today
17:24:24 <sandro> topic: websub
17:24:45 <aaronpk> https://github.com/w3c/websub/issues/106#issuecomment-304121737
17:24:46 <Loqi> [aaronpk] Here is some proposed text to add this to the spec.
17:24:46 <Loqi> Before:
17:24:46 <Loqi> > The successful response from the subscriber's callback URL MUST be an HTTP [[!RFC7231]] success (2xx) code. The hub MUST consider all other subscriber response codes as failures; tha...
17:24:47 <ben_thatmustbeme> grep of minutes list shows #196 mentioned on 4/25, 5/2 and 5/9 cwebber2
17:24:49 <sandro> aaronpk: Last week we agreed to incorporate this HTTP 410 issue
17:25:08 <sandro> aaronpk: Julian wanted MAY instead of SHOULD.
17:25:24 <sandro> aaronpk: New WG
17:25:28 <ajordan> tantek: yeah
17:25:59 <sandro> sandro: contingent on clarification
17:26:14 <sandro> sandro: although with MAY it's hard to imagine it being a problem
17:26:57 <sandro> tantek: I agree, the MAY makes it even less likely to raise concerns.   It's pointing direction for implementation.   Is it possible to test this?
17:27:24 <sandro> aaronpk: I do plan on test, waiting for text to be in
17:27:45 <sandro> tantek: if it's widely implemented, than in a 1.1 we could upgrade it to a SHOULD
17:28:27 <sandro> aaronpk: In that case I'll go ahead with a new CR
17:29:00 <sandro> tantek: I think this would be normal WG post-REC maintenance
17:30:34 <sandro> sandro: I'll still check with Ralph, don't want to get this wrong
17:30:49 <sandro> aaronpk: I checked on github's impl
17:30:58 <sandro> .. turns out they don't implement discovery
17:31:14 <sandro> .. their topic URLs don't return anything when you touch them
17:31:23 <sandro> .. and their subscription request requires Access-Token
17:31:35 <sandro> .. so it's not really PubSubHubbub
17:31:39 <sandro> .. they do send fat pings
17:31:49 <sandro> .. but it's undefined if they match URL, since URLs don't work
17:31:55 <sandro> .. not a lot of good news
17:32:14 <sandro> .. I'm asking someone at github to look into it
17:32:24 <sandro> .. but not optimistic because of their general need for authentication
17:32:36 <sandro> topic: Post Type Discovery
17:32:49 <sandro> tantek: Nothing new
17:33:01 <sandro> .. hopefully soon
17:33:24 <sandro> topic: Any other documents?
17:33:34 <ajordan> Zakim: who is on the call?
17:33:37 <sandro> eprodrom: We approved pub of social web protocols
17:33:49 <ben_thatmustbeme> I have been working on updates to JF2
17:33:55 <ben_thatmustbeme> but that will be a bit before done
17:34:02 <sandro> sandro: rhiaro is at conf this week
17:34:17 <sandro> ajordan, comma not colon
17:34:34 <sandro> topic: Social Incubator CG
17:34:40 <sandro> cwebber2: Tomorrow!  Show Up!
17:34:47 <ajordan> sandro: :/
17:35:03 <sandro> eprodrom: Nice.  Short meetings are good.
17:35:11 <tantek> +1 to that
17:35:30 <cwebber2> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2017-05-31
17:35:39 <sandro> sandro: help add to CG agenda and get the word out
17:35:39 <ajordan> q+
17:35:50 <sandro> ack ajordan
17:35:58 <Loqi> hehe
17:36:00 <eprodrom> ack ajordan
17:36:21 <ajordan> cwebber2: might want to announce on the CG page
17:36:25 <sandro> eprodrom, adjourned, see you tomorrow and next week!
17:36:28 <cwebber2> ajordan, yes probably
17:36:35 <eprodrom> trackbot, end meeting
17:36:35 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:36:35 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been eprodrom, sandro, ajordan, cwebber, ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk, tantek
17:36:35 <ben_thatmustbeme> sandro++
17:36:35 <Loqi> sandro has 39 karma in this channel (46 overall)
17:36:38 <tantek> sandro++ for minuting
17:36:38 <Loqi> sandro has 40 karma in this channel (47 overall)
17:36:39 <ben_thatmustbeme> eprodrom++
17:36:39 <Loqi> eprodrom has 46 karma in this channel (47 overall)
17:36:39 <cwebber2> eprodrom++
17:36:39 <Loqi> slow down!
17:36:41 <cwebber2> sandro++
17:36:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:36:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/30-social-minutes.html trackbot
17:36:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:36:44 <RRSAgent> I see no action items