19:57:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdwssn
19:57:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/05/30-sdwssn-irc
19:57:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:57:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdwssn
19:57:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
19:57:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
19:57:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
19:57:49 <trackbot> Date: 30 May 2017
19:57:55 <mlefranc> *Hello, the webex link points to a webpage that says: The meeting has been cancelled. Is there a problem ?
19:58:33 <DanhLePhuoc> I have the same problem
19:58:34 <tidoust> tidoust has joined #sdwssn
19:58:46 <ahaller2> Well, looks like. tidoust, can you please set up a new Webex link?
19:59:41 <ahaller2> thanks!
20:03:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdwssn
20:03:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/05/30-sdwssn-irc
20:03:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
20:03:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
20:03:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
20:03:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
20:03:47 <trackbot> Date: 30 May 2017
20:04:20 <Kjanowic> Kjanowic has joined #sdwssn
20:04:27 <Kjanowic> present+
20:04:32 <tidoust> present+
20:04:47 <DanhLePhuoc> present+ DanhLePhuoc
20:04:49 <Kjanowic> I am getting  'The meeting has been cancelled' from Webex
20:04:52 <Kjanowic> [resent+
20:04:55 <Kjanowic> present+
20:05:25 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #sdwssn
20:05:47 <ahaller2> present+
20:06:09 <SimonCox> webex problem?
20:06:15 <ahaller2> yes
20:07:56 <ahaller2> topic: Approving last meeting's minutes https://www.w3.org/2017/05/16-sdwssn-minutes
20:08:07 <Kjanowic> +1
20:08:10 <SimonCox> +1
20:08:15 <ahaller2> +1
20:08:19 <mlefranc> +1
20:08:29 <DanhLePhuoc> +1
20:08:58 <ahaller2> scribe: SimonCox
20:09:05 <ahaller2> scribenick: SimonCox
20:09:13 <ahaller2> topic: Patent Call https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
20:09:15 <SimonCox> Patent call
20:09:40 <ahaller2> topic: Discuss further responses to Public Review, and https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/199 in response to Markus Stocker's feedback
20:10:19 <SimonCox> Markus Stocker feedback resolved and merged.
20:10:41 <mlefranc> q+
20:10:47 <SimonCox> Comments provided from Nick Car (GA) -
20:10:49 <ahaller2> ack mlefranc
20:10:56 <SimonCox> ... re feature of interest
20:11:20 <Kjanowic> q+
20:11:24 <SimonCox> mlefranc: "platform" used slightly differnet in WoT
20:11:41 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
20:11:46 <SimonCox> ... WoT may need additional class
20:12:19 <SimonCox> Kjanowic: sosa:Platform supports composition of sensors - e.g. smartphone
20:12:28 <SimonCox> ... or if need to talk about geometry
20:12:45 <ahaller2> q?
20:12:59 <SimonCox> (WoT needs 'platform' for software platform)
20:13:09 <SimonCox> q+
20:13:53 <SimonCox> is platform just *hardware* platform
20:14:17 <SimonCox> mlefranc: also asking issue about sub-system
20:14:18 <Kjanowic> q+
20:14:19 <ahaller2> ack SimonCox
20:14:51 <Kjanowic> Sorry, Id did not mean that. We  include virtual as well. My point was that it is not an API platform
20:14:53 <Kjanowic> q+
20:15:02 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
20:15:40 <SimonCox> in IT world platform=API
20:16:12 <SimonCox> in SOSA we mean host for system, sensor, but not API platform. Not restricted to hardware
20:16:33 <DanhLePhuoc> q+
20:16:34 <ahaller2> q?
20:16:35 <Kjanowic> q+
20:16:37 <ahaller2> ack DanhLePhuoc
20:16:55 <SimonCox> ahaller2: don't need to change definition/annotation
20:17:27 <Kjanowic> Wintel is a platform but not in our sense
20:17:51 <ahaller2> q?
20:18:10 <SimonCox> DanhLePhuoc: must delegate to WoT group - they are still struggling around what is central point of modelling
20:18:23 <SimonCox> ... we don't need to change.
20:18:27 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
20:18:33 <SimonCox> ... wot still a moving target
20:19:06 <SimonCox> ... haven't agreed thing-description in JSON, JSON-LD yet ... difficult to align until they have stablised
20:19:12 <mlefranc> q+
20:19:12 <DanhLePhuoc> +1
20:19:16 <Kjanowic> q+
20:19:21 <DanhLePhuoc> q+
20:20:07 <SimonCox> topic: to explain sub-system relationships
20:20:16 <ahaller2> ack mlefranc
20:20:40 <SimonCox> mlefranc: best explained through examples
20:21:01 <SimonCox> ... subsystem vs ishostedby
20:21:16 <SimonCox> ... also isSampleOf and hasSubSystem
20:21:33 <SimonCox> q+
20:22:44 <ahaller2> create ISSUE What is the difference between subsystem vs ishostedby
20:22:45 <Kjanowic> q-
20:23:06 <DanhLePhuoc> q-
20:23:08 <mlefranc> ISSUE What is the difference between subsystem vs ishostedby
20:23:19 <SimonCox> ISSUE: What is the difference between subsystem vs ishostedby
20:23:20 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-202 - What is the difference between subsystem vs ishostedby.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/202/edit>.
20:23:46 <ahaller2> q?
20:23:49 <ahaller2> ack SimonCox
20:23:59 <Kjanowic> q+
20:26:18 <SimonCox> isSampleOf is to get a sub-feature which is intended to be 'representative of' a bigger thing in the context of observations
20:27:37 <SimonCox> ACTION: SimonCox to add text to explain role of sampling in SSN examples room/ice sheet
20:27:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-364 - Add text to explain role of sampling in ssn examples room/ice sheet [on Simon Cox - due 2017-06-06].
20:27:46 <ahaller2> q?
20:27:46 <Kjanowic> This is a dangerous example btw "<Room145/east> a sosa:Sample , sosa:FeatureOfInterest , sosa:Platform ;"
20:27:49 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
20:29:02 <SimonCox> Kjanowic: danger of mixing sample/foi/platform in examples
20:29:29 <SimonCox> ... don't conflate too many things in examples as it is a rare case
20:30:04 <SimonCox> ... need to be careful about conflating sampling locations
20:30:15 <Kjanowic> Sorry for jumping ahead
20:30:21 <ahaller2> topic: Progress on https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/362 - Extend canonical examples with coastal water body example using rdfs:subclassing and punning
20:30:23 <Kjanowic> but it relates to sample vs system and foi
20:30:51 <Kjanowic> yes, absolutely
20:31:06 <Kjanowic> but the example is, correct?
20:31:17 <ahaller2> q?
20:31:21 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
20:32:20 <ahaller2> q+
20:33:58 <Kjanowic> <Room145/east> a sosa:Sample , sosa:FeatureOfInterest , sosa:Platform ;     rdfs:label "East wall of room #145."@en ;     rdfs:comment "This wall hosts PCB Board 1 with DHT22 temperature and humidity sensor #4578."@en ;     sosa:hosts <PCBBoard1> .
20:34:31 <ahaller2> q?
20:34:34 <ahaller2> ack ahaller
20:34:43 <Kjanowic> Thanks Maxime for providing these examples
20:35:26 <Kjanowic> yes to very simple examples
20:35:49 <SimonCox> ahaller2: are these examples too complex? need v simple examples at beginning
20:35:51 <ahaller2> q?
20:36:02 <SimonCox> ... build up to these more complex examples
20:36:19 <ahaller2> ACTION: ahaller2 to create simple SOSA example with smartphone and sensors
20:36:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-365 - Create simple sosa example with smartphone and sensors [on Armin Haller - due 2017-06-06].
20:36:21 <SimonCox> q+
20:36:44 <ahaller2> ack SimonCox
20:37:06 <Kjanowic> I like this idea!
20:37:33 <Kjanowic> q+
20:37:44 <SimonCox> ACTION: SimonCox to add examples from O&M converted to SOSA/SSN
20:37:44 <trackbot> Created ACTION-366 - Add examples from o&m converted to sosa/ssn [on Simon Cox - due 2017-06-06].
20:37:49 <ahaller2> q?
20:37:52 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
20:38:22 <ahaller2> q+
20:39:02 <mlefranc> q+
20:39:06 <SimonCox> Kjanowic: need variety in samples to capture audience
20:39:11 <ahaller2> ack ahaller
20:39:32 <Kjanowic> Okay, I see your point.
20:39:42 <SimonCox> Everyone seems to agree that multiple examples are better
20:40:06 <SimonCox> ahaller2: single example in SOSA, more in SSN?
20:40:14 <ahaller2> q?
20:40:16 <ahaller2> ack mlefranc
20:40:16 <SimonCox> ... need small document in sosa
20:40:18 <SimonCox> q+
20:40:44 <Kjanowic> q+
20:40:51 <SimonCox> are we talking about (a) examples listed against definition in ontology, or (b) fully worked instances in document
20:41:06 <ahaller2> ack SimonCox
20:41:24 <Kjanowic> but liked it in the end
20:42:55 <SimonCox> mlefranc: in document - at beginning of each section included links to worked examples in later chapter
20:43:27 <SimonCox> ahaller2: in ontology document how to use skos:example? one or many?
20:43:43 <SimonCox> ... multiple examples are helpful in ontology document
20:44:15 <SimonCox> ... wide review seems to indicate that multiiple examples useful
20:44:22 <ahaller2> q?
20:44:25 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
20:44:29 <SimonCox> ... all worked examples should be mentioned in ontology annotations
20:45:29 <SimonCox> Kjanowic: would be good to ensure that ontology document is balanced, similar number of skos:example for each class
20:46:09 <SimonCox> ... like mlefranc suggestion that each of us makes extended example using as may classes as possible
20:46:29 <SimonCox> ... this will verify that we share understanding of the ontology
20:46:48 <ahaller2> ACTION: ahaller SimonCox mlefranc Kjanowic DanhLePhuoc to create one example each that uses as many classes/properties as possible
20:46:48 <trackbot> Error finding 'ahaller'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
20:46:53 <Kjanowic> Yes
20:46:56 <Kjanowic> like a scenario
20:47:04 <ahaller2> q?
20:47:27 <mlefranc> +1
20:47:41 <ahaller2> ACTION: armin SimonCox mlefranc Kjanowic DanhLePhuoc to create one example each that uses as many classes/properties as possible
20:47:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-367 - Simoncox mlefranc kjanowic danhlephuoc to create one example each that uses as many classes/properties as possible [on Armin Haller - due 2017-06-06].
20:48:00 <ahaller2> q?
20:48:33 <SimonCox> ahaller2: Canonical examples around water bodies?
20:48:44 <ahaller2> q?
20:49:24 <ahaller2> q?
20:49:47 <ahaller2> topic: Progress on https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/363 - Fix hierarchy in pull request around measurement capabilities
20:50:15 <SimonCox> ahaller2: has been closed
20:51:04 <ahaller2> q?
20:51:17 <Kjanowic> q+
20:52:10 <mlefranc> ok with the new tructure
20:52:11 <SimonCox> ahaller2: location and forecasting was in own section, too prominent
20:52:24 <Kjanowic> q+
20:52:24 <SimonCox> ... but not much content?
20:52:41 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
20:52:47 <SimonCox> ... now moved to subsections 6.3 6.4
20:53:39 <SimonCox> Kjanowic: location is not part of SSN - shoudl be delegated
20:53:54 <SimonCox> ... when we didn't have any real horizontal modules
20:54:23 <SimonCox> ... suggest moving the things which are not SSN components into yet another chapter after the examples
20:54:43 <ahaller2> q?
20:54:47 <Kjanowic> q+
20:54:52 <mlefranc> q+
20:55:06 <SimonCox> ahaller2: since we haven't actually modeled them as part of SOSA/SSN they need to be moved to annex?
20:56:03 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
20:56:26 <SimonCox> Kjanowic: the other horizontal modules contain axioms
20:56:45 <SimonCox> ... for forecasting and locations there is no axioms so no module
20:56:56 <SimonCox> ... rather this is how to link out to other
20:57:18 <SimonCox> ... alternatively: we could build an actual alignment
20:57:30 <SimonCox> ... its a scenario or best practice
20:57:48 <ahaller2> q?
20:57:50 <SimonCox> q+
20:57:51 <ahaller2> ack mlefranc
20:58:20 <SimonCox> mlefranc: should not be pushed into annex. New section "modeling issues'
20:58:21 <Kjanowic> I like Maxime's proposal
20:58:24 <ahaller2> q?
20:58:26 <Kjanowic> have a modleing section
20:58:29 <ahaller2> ack SimonCox
20:59:18 <SimonCox> would 'alignment module' include stub classes for geometry etc
20:59:40 <SimonCox> Kjanowic: yes - to clarify that sensors are not geometries, etc
21:00:27 <ahaller2> ISSUE: Location and Forecasting are not modules at the moment, either they need alignments or move to a seperate section
21:00:27 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-203 - Location and forecasting are not modules at the moment, either they need alignments or move to a seperate section.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/203/edit>.
21:00:43 <ahaller2> q?
21:01:13 <ahaller2> scribe: mlefranc
21:01:17 <ahaller2> scribenick: mlefranc
21:01:26 <Kjanowic> I will have to leave soon so I cannot scribe
21:01:29 <ahaller2> topic: Implementation of proposal for alignment as of https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Events_and_Situations for ssn:Observation
21:02:04 <mlefranc> Kjanowic: do it for next week
21:02:33 <ahaller2> q?
21:02:42 <ahaller2> q?
21:02:48 <ahaller2> topic: Progress on Action-356 to create a list of axioms that do not need implementation evidence
21:03:38 <SimonCox> present+
21:03:49 <ahaller2> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/ssn-usage/
21:04:16 <mlefranc> ahaller2: about implementation evidence: need to update ssn-usage document
21:04:48 <mlefranc> ahaller2: plug new implementation evidence in ssn-usage directly
21:05:07 <ahaller2> q?
21:05:58 <mlefranc> q+
21:06:21 <ahaller2> ACTION: ahaller2 update ssn-usage with links to working draft classes/properties and add new classes/properties where necessary
21:06:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-368 - Update ssn-usage with links to working draft classes/properties and add new classes/properties where necessary [on Armin Haller - due 2017-06-06].
21:06:32 <ahaller2> q?
21:06:34 <mlefranc> mlefranc: also, draw a graph that show the dependencies (existential relations) between terms
21:06:34 <ahaller2> ack mlefranc
21:06:37 <DanhLePhuoc> q+
21:07:14 <Kjanowic> q+
21:07:56 <DanhLePhuoc> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Implicit_Implementations_entailed_by_Axioms
21:08:12 <ahaller2> q?
21:08:14 <ahaller2> ack DanhLePhuocn
21:08:18 <ahaller2> ack DanhLePhuoc
21:08:45 <Kjanowic> Yes, this was a task we discussed sometime ago
21:09:09 <mlefranc> DanhLePhuoc: entailment regime make that class system is instantiate whenever someone instantiates sensor (under ssn)
21:09:26 <mlefranc> ... also with owl:inverseOf
21:09:46 <Kjanowic> q+
21:09:48 <mlefranc> ahaller2: reflect that in ssn-usage document ?
21:10:38 <mlefranc> ... separate section (table) for the instance that are implemented "behind entailement"
21:10:40 <ahaller2> q?
21:10:42 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
21:11:31 <ahaller2> q?
21:11:54 <Kjanowic> afk
21:12:32 <ahaller2> topic: Implementation Evidence Progress http://w3c.github.io/sdw/ssn-usage/
21:13:05 <mlefranc> ahaller2: @tidoust, please explain the agenda again
21:13:18 <tidoust> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2017Mar/0231.html Timeline to reach REC
21:13:20 <mlefranc> tidoust: worried about candidate recommendation phase
21:14:00 <mlefranc> ...meant to be 15th may
21:14:23 <mlefranc> ... still have time to work on the implementation, need to finalize CR
21:14:54 <mlefranc> ... still need the "exit criteria" in the spec
21:14:56 <tidoust> -> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/time/#exit Exit criteria for Time Ontology
21:15:43 <mlefranc> ... also need the whole group to accept to switch to CR
21:16:10 <mlefranc> ... and how the wide reviews were handled
21:16:28 <ahaller2> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Wide_Review
21:16:46 <mlefranc> q+
21:17:10 <SimonCox> I need to leave now
21:17:24 <ahaller2> ACTION: ahaller write Disposition of Wide Review comments in Wiki, add exit criteria to document and ask Ed for Plenary meeting to get into RecTrack
21:17:25 <trackbot> Error finding 'ahaller'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
21:17:29 <ahaller2> q?
21:17:35 <ahaller2> ack mlefranc
21:18:28 <Kjanowic> q+
21:18:40 <mlefranc> tidoust: still work on non-normative sections in document while CR
21:19:49 <ahaller2> ack Kjanowic
21:20:07 <mlefranc> ... can work tomorrow and wait for a few days, 2 weeks, for a consensus (list and director)
21:20:17 <mlefranc> ... but it needs to happen soon
21:20:53 <mlefranc> Kjanowic: what about use of MUST BE and SHOULD BE ?
21:21:42 <mlefranc> ... quantification, in text box, we use MUST BE
21:21:55 <mlefranc> ... the axioms and the text are not in sync
21:22:31 <mlefranc> ... only is forall quantifiers, exists is for existential quantifiers, need to check consistence in the figure
21:26:39 <ahaller2> change axiom language, must be -> only, at least one -> exists one
21:26:43 <Kjanowic> \forall --> only
21:26:49 <Kjanowic> \exists --> some
21:27:08 <Kjanowic> cardinality --> exactly 1 or at least 1 or at most 5
21:27:09 <Kjanowic> ....
21:28:03 <mlefranc> Kjanowic: *discussing the wording for every axiom in the spec and the figures*
21:28:37 <mlefranc> ahaller2: need to be done before vote tomorrow
21:29:19 <ahaller2> action: ahaller to change language for axioms to match best practice
21:29:19 <trackbot> Error finding 'ahaller'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/users>.
21:29:28 <ahaller2> action: armin to change language for axioms to match best practice
21:29:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-369 - Change language for axioms to match best practice [on Armin Haller - due 2017-06-06].
21:29:36 <ahaller2> q?
21:29:55 <ahaller2> q?
21:30:05 <ahaller2> topic: Discuss ISSUE-201, Hash URIs for System Capabilities
21:30:12 <Kjanowic> I have to leave now
21:30:35 <mlefranc> q+
21:30:50 <ahaller2> ack mlefranc
21:32:48 <mlefranc> mlefranc: why do we use slash-based URIs anyways ?
21:34:16 <ahaller2> ACTION: mlefranc to harmonise hash URIs to slash URIs for horizontal modules
21:34:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-370 - Harmonise hash uris to slash uris for horizontal modules [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2017-06-06].
21:34:26 <ahaller2> topic: Outreach - Requested Talks and Siemens Plugfest https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/353
21:34:39 <mlefranc> ... only important if one can get different documents from the same namespace
21:35:12 <mlefranc> DanhLePhuoc: plan to demo something next plugfest in July
21:35:19 <ahaller2> ... next plug fest in Duesseldorf
21:35:37 <mlefranc> ... plan to use SSN for anything relevant to sensor and actuator
21:35:50 <mlefranc> ahaller2: can use that for implementation evidence  ?
21:35:53 <mlefranc> DanhLePhuoc: yes
21:36:04 <ahaller2> q?
21:36:37 <ahaller2> q?
21:37:38 <ahaller2> RRSAgent, make logs public
21:37:43 <ahaller2> RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:37:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/30-sdwssn-minutes.html ahaller2
21:44:39 <tidoust> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:44:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/30-sdwssn-minutes.html tidoust