16:52:21 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
16:52:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-aria-apg-irc
16:52:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria-apg
16:53:08 <mck> rrsagent, make log world
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16:53:47 <mck> meeting: May 8, 2017 ARIA Authroing Practices
16:55:59 <mck> it says the meeting code is invalid when I try to call on the phone
16:56:02 <sirib> no meeting to day?
16:56:11 <sirib> I can't access the link
16:56:13 <mck> yes, there is a meeting if we can have one
16:56:38 <sirib> can you send me webex link
16:57:08 <aaronlev> aaronlev has joined #aria-apg
16:57:30 <sirib> https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m4b54b847795d432ef8a2ba82e488fea2
16:57:42 <sirib> getting meeting has ended or cancelled
16:58:02 <sirib> oops , sorry
16:59:17 <AnnAbbott> AnnAbbott has joined #aria-apg
16:59:54 <mck> ann, our meeting line has a problem
17:00:51 <jamesn> <MichaelC> which usually means a sysadmin unilaterally canceled it without telling me
17:00:51 <jamesn> <MichaelC> I´ll schedule a new one
17:01:32 <mck> OK, Michiel, I'll make a point of trying to annoy you further.
17:01:34 <AnnAbbott> Yes, meeting call in has a problem
17:01:56 <MichielBijl> mck, we’ll see who wins that battle :P
17:02:04 <mck> don't push me
17:02:32 <jamesn> jamesn has changed the topic to: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=me6dd6407966ea6b8da76b4f40e8df903
17:04:46 <aaronlev> sorry forgot the pwd
17:05:07 <AnnAbbott> What is the WebEx password?
17:05:17 <MichielBijl> scribe: MichielBijl
17:05:27 <aaronlev> erm what was that
17:05:42 <AnnAbbott> 666 444 732?
17:06:18 <AnnAbbott> I've never joined WebEx for this call before - sorry!
17:06:32 <AnnAbbott> I've always dialed in
17:07:22 <jamesn> oh dial in number?
17:07:39 <jamesn> 644 895 856
17:07:40 <AnnAbbott> Sorry - typo in my password above - it has always been 646 444 732
17:08:53 <AnnAbbott> when I try 644 895 856, it tells me password is incorrect
17:10:05 <MichielBijl> agenda+ Modal Dialog
17:10:18 <MichielBijl> agenda+ Treeview Examples
17:10:25 <MichielBijl> agenda+ Menu Button
17:10:33 <MichielBijl> agenda+ Focus for coming week
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17:13:37 <MichielBijl> zakim, take up item 1
17:13:37 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Modal Dialog" taken up [from MichielBijl]
17:13:56 <mck> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/May-8%2C-2017-Meeting
17:14:29 <sirib> what is the password
17:15:11 <mck> present+ matt_king
17:15:16 <MichielBijl> present+
17:15:29 <AnnAbbott> present+ AnnAbbott
17:17:20 <jemma> present+ JaEunJemmaKu
17:18:41 <MichielBijl> Related links:
17:18:42 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/325
17:18:47 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/321
17:18:55 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/334
17:19:11 <sirib> present+ shirishaBalusani
17:19:57 <MichielBijl> MK: Some people aren’t satisfied with the current text
17:20:03 <MichielBijl> AA: I made a suggestion
17:20:40 <MichielBijl> MK: You suggested focus should always return to the element that invoked the dialog, unless that element doesn’t exist.
17:20:56 <MichielBijl> What about cases where that element isn’t the most logical place for it to go?
17:20:59 <MichielBijl> AA: ??
17:21:12 <MichielBijl> JN: isn’t maintaining a logical workflow the most important thing?
17:22:05 <MichielBijl> AA: if you got a design that’s so flaky, that focus is returned to the element that invoked it, and you can’t get to the element in the logical work flow, that’s a design flaw.
17:22:30 <MichielBijl> JN: We have a table where you enter new data, after you add one, we set focus to the row after the newly generated one, it’s the most logical place.
17:22:56 <MichielBijl> In that case it’s quite clear what the user wants to do.
17:23:00 <MichielBijl> MK: I agree with James
17:23:07 <MichielBijl> I think there’re some finer points to it
17:23:41 <MichielBijl> For example if you pressed the “add row” button three times it be useless to have to navigate back to it three times.
17:23:48 <MichielBijl> These are design decisions.
17:24:09 <MichielBijl> What we don’t want to do is to limit people that want to make a good design
17:26:12 <MichielBijl> AA: When a dialog closes return focus to the element that invoked it and have something for edge cases where that element no longer exists.
17:26:19 <MichielBijl> JN: I agree with that.
17:26:28 <MichielBijl> MK: I’m not totally fine with that.
17:26:54 <MichielBijl> MK: Given the contents of this conversation, I have enough to work on something that’s similar to what we have, but shorter.
17:27:37 <MichielBijl> zakim, take up item 2
17:27:37 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Treeview Examples" taken up [from MichielBijl]
17:27:58 <MichielBijl> MK: First thing is this question
17:28:41 <mck> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/223#issuecomment-298267313
17:29:09 <MichielBijl> SB: Matt did you get a chance to look at my comments?
17:29:24 <MichielBijl> MK: Do remember looking at them, don’t remember replying to them.
17:29:45 <MichielBijl> My question is about specific text.
17:30:16 <MichielBijl> *Ann reads the issues linked to above*
17:30:25 <MichielBijl> MK: This point is under the accessibility features.
17:30:35 <MichielBijl> On all the treeview example pages.
17:30:43 <MichielBijl> We have a custom focus and hover.
17:31:11 <MichielBijl> Link to code example: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/treeview/treeview-1/treeview-1a.html
17:36:08 <MichielBijl> MK: What are the differences between the hover and focus state?
17:36:30 <MichielBijl> MB: On focus the treeitem gets a black border and a light grey background
17:36:43 <MichielBijl> When you hover the treeitem gets a slightly darker background
17:36:50 <MichielBijl> In addition to the custom focus state
17:36:59 <MichielBijl> You also get the default one
17:37:30 <MichielBijl> I suggest we remove the default one as it usually lacks sufficient indication depending on background.
17:37:54 <MichielBijl> MK: I’m okay with that
17:38:00 <MichielBijl> Should we have any guidance on it
17:38:20 <MichielBijl> JN: People are going them themselves, if not, we can ask them to.
17:39:27 <MichielBijl> MB: that does sound helpful (a section about focus indication)
17:43:47 <MichielBijl> *back to focus / hover styles*
17:44:42 <MichielBijl> MB: The hover and focus styles are applied through JS
17:44:54 <MichielBijl> Why aren’t these applied through CSS?
17:45:10 <MichielBijl> The last browser to not support :hover on <li> was IE 6
17:46:30 <MichielBijl> I’ll make a note of it in the issue
17:46:46 <MichielBijl> JN: We shouldn’t get stuck on this, perfection won’t get us to ship anything
17:47:10 <MichielBijl> MK: Agreed, but we should use correct techniques for things because it adds to the credibility of the document
17:47:13 <MichielBijl> JN: Agreed.
17:47:28 <MichielBijl> MK: Anything else someone wants to say about treeview before me move on?
17:47:33 <MichielBijl> zakim, take up next item
17:47:33 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Modal Dialog" taken up [from MichielBijl]
17:47:43 <MichielBijl> zakim, take up item 3
17:47:43 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Menu Button" taken up [from MichielBijl]
17:48:00 <mck> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aopen%20is%3Aissue%20milestone%3A%22Jan%202017%20Clean%20Up%22%20sort%3Aupdated-desc%20review%20menu%20button%20NOT%20menubar
17:49:03 <mck> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/383
17:51:02 <MichielBijl> JN: The issue occurs Firefox, not in Chrome
17:52:29 <MichielBijl> s/occurs/occurs in/
17:52:34 <MichielBijl> s/not/but not/
17:54:21 <MichielBijl> JN: You mention the thing in the thing so they’re cross referenced
17:57:57 <AnnAbbott> Navigation Menu Button Example: http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/menu-button/menu-button-links.html
18:00:36 <MichielBijl> *James sneezes*
18:00:47 <sirib> lol
18:02:01 <MichielBijl> MK: When I try to reproduce it it’s not happening for me
18:02:13 <MichielBijl> AA: James you still have all those browsers still up?
18:02:19 <MichielBijl> All those you tested in?
18:02:25 <MichielBijl> JN: Can open them again
18:02:44 <MichielBijl> Do you want me to test the menu opening again in other browsers?
18:02:57 <MichielBijl> AA: Yeah, Chrome and IE11
18:03:12 <MichielBijl> JN: Moves to the typed character, but doesn’t close the menu
18:03:19 <MichielBijl> Works fine in IE as well
18:03:39 <MichielBijl> MK: What happens for me in FF 43
18:04:04 <MichielBijl> If I hit the letter A, it moves the focus to the first item with that letter, but it doesn’t close the menu for me.
18:04:11 <MichielBijl> JN: Doesn’t for me either
18:04:49 <sirib> can you please tell which issue we are looking at
18:07:21 <MichielBijl> 383, I think
18:10:02 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:10:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/08-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
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