IRC log of shapes on 2017-05-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:00:35 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/05/03-shapes-irc
13:00:37 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs rdf-data-shapes
13:00:37 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be SHAPES
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ok, trackbot
13:00:40 [trackbot]
Meeting: RDF Data Shapes Working Group Teleconference
13:00:40 [trackbot]
Date: 03 May 2017
13:00:57 [TallTed]
present+
13:00:58 [hknublau]
present+
13:01:03 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:01:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/03-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
13:01:10 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:02:16 [ipolikof]
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13:02:37 [simonstey]
present+
13:03:04 [ipolikof]
present+
13:04:03 [Jack_]
+present
13:04:05 [TallTed]
Zakim, who's here?
13:04:06 [Zakim]
Present: TallTed, hknublau, simonstey, ipolikof, present
13:04:07 [Zakim]
On IRC I see ipolikof, Zakim, RRSAgent, hknublau, TallTed, Jack_, simonstey, trackbot, sandro
13:04:09 [sandroid]
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13:04:21 [Jack_]
present+
13:04:26 [TallTed]
-present
13:04:30 [TallTed]
Zakim, who's here?
13:04:31 [Zakim]
Present: TallTed, hknublau, simonstey, ipolikof, Jack_
13:04:32 [Zakim]
On IRC I see sandroid, ipolikof, Zakim, RRSAgent, hknublau, TallTed, Jack_, simonstey, trackbot, sandro
13:05:01 [hknublau]
scribenick: hknublau
13:05:19 [ipolikof]
PROPOSED: Approve minutes of the 26 April 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/04/26-shapes-minutes.html
13:05:20 [pano]
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13:05:21 [hknublau]
+1
13:05:25 [simonstey]
+1
13:05:31 [ipolikof]
+1
13:05:38 [TallTed]
+1
13:05:57 [Jack_]
+1
13:05:57 [ipolikof]
RESOLUTION: Approve minutes of the 26 April 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/04/26-shapes-minutes.html
13:06:00 [pano]
present+
13:06:21 [hknublau]
TOPIC: Formal Objections
13:07:02 [hknublau]
ipolikoff: Procedural objection on cut off of tests may need Sandro's input
13:07:26 [ipolikof]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-shapes/2017May/0001.html
13:07:54 [hknublau]
ipolikof: Summary of objection
13:08:22 [hknublau]
... sequence path does allow other triples than rdf:first and rdf:rest
13:08:51 [hknublau]
... Peter then created scenarios where this may confuse users or tools
13:09:50 [hknublau]
... Peter suggested alternative definition
13:10:05 [hknublau]
... Would require republishing another CR
13:10:14 [simonstey]
+q
13:10:20 [hknublau]
ack simonstey
13:11:21 [hknublau]
simonstey: Proposed solution would be OK in principle as long as it doesn't break other parts of SHACL
13:13:25 [hknublau]
ipolikof: No strong reason to put comments on the path itself
13:13:56 [hknublau]
hknublau: Process is there for a reason. Late changes should only be made for very strong reasons.
13:14:01 [simonstey]
+q
13:14:29 [hknublau]
ack simonstey
13:14:38 [TallTed]
q+
13:14:56 [hknublau]
simonstey: I am fine with that too, but we need a rational explanation beside process
13:15:06 [hknublau]
ack TallTed
13:18:50 [hknublau]
TallTed: We need a good explanation.
13:19:06 [simonstey]
+q
13:19:53 [hknublau]
hknublau: We have test cases that exclude the cases that Peter created.
13:20:10 [hknublau]
ack simonstey
13:20:37 [hknublau]
simonstey: If this small change would not change implementations I hope this doesn't require a new CR
13:21:56 [hknublau]
... we need to confirm this from Sandro.
13:22:48 [ipolikof]
PROPOSAL: Make an editorial clarification that sequence paths are subjects of only 2 triples - as long as sandro confirms it can go in as editorial only
13:25:51 [hknublau]
TallTed: We have tests to double-check and confirm the spec, I think this is viable.
13:26:03 [ipolikof]
PROPOSAL: Make an editorial clarification that sequence paths should be subjects of only 2 triples, any other triples are ignored by implementations
13:27:08 [TallTed]
PROPOSAL: Make an editorial clarification that sequence paths should be subjects of only 2 triples, any other triples shall be ignored by implementations, bringing the prose of the spec in line with the tests which have always carried the intent.
13:27:25 [ipolikof]
+1
13:27:30 [TallTed]
+1
13:27:36 [simonstey]
+1
13:27:38 [Jack_]
+1
13:27:40 [pano]
+1
13:28:01 [hknublau]
0
13:28:03 [ipolikof]
RESOLUTION: Make an editorial clarification that sequence paths should be subjects of only 2 triples, any other triples shall be ignored by implementations, bringing the prose of the spec in line with the tests which have always carried the intent.
13:28:33 [hknublau]
Topic: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-shapes/2017May/0004.html
13:29:03 [hknublau]
ipolikof: I wrote an email, just summarizing it.
13:29:23 [hknublau]
... 1) "Large" number of queries now disallowed
13:29:44 [hknublau]
... As soon as you disallow a single keyword, you disallow a large number of queries (of course)
13:30:08 [hknublau]
... But we just disallowed SERVICE (which has security and technical issues), MINUS and VALUES, which are syntactic sugar.
13:30:56 [hknublau]
... 2) Interoperability: what if some implementations allow them, others don't - ill-formed is rather soft
13:31:26 [hknublau]
... we could make this stricter, saying IF a query violates those rules, an impl MUST throw a failure.
13:32:00 [hknublau]
... Would require changes to implementations and tests
13:33:08 [simonstey]
+q
13:33:17 [hknublau]
ack simonstey
13:34:40 [hknublau]
simonstey: Peter also mentioned equals
13:34:44 [ipolikof]
PROPOSAL: Require SHACL_SPARQL processors to throw an error if queries contain MINUS, VALUES or SERVICE keywords
13:34:57 [hknublau]
hknublau: This (and other parts of the objection) are outdated and should be resubmitted
13:35:08 [simonstey]
http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl/#EqualsConstraintComponent
13:35:45 [simonstey]
https://www.w3.org/TR/shacl/#EqualsConstraintComponent
13:36:00 [hknublau]
+1
13:36:52 [sandroid]
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13:37:00 [simonstey]
+1
13:37:30 [ipolikof]
PROPOSAL: Require SHACL_SPARQL processors to throw an error if queries contain MINUS, VALUES or SERVICE keywords or violate any restrictions in the pre-binding appendix
13:38:14 [hknublau]
+1
13:38:21 [Jack_]
+1
13:38:24 [pano]
+1
13:38:25 [TallTed]
+1
13:38:33 [simonstey]
+1
13:38:38 [ipolikof]
+1
13:39:01 [ipolikof]
RESOLUTION: Require SHACL-SPARQL processors to throw an error if queries contain MINUS, VALUES or SERVICE keywords or violate any restrictions in the pre-binding appendix
13:39:47 [hknublau]
Topic: Open Issues
13:43:29 [hknublau]
hknublau: We could add label to indicate they are covered by Formal Objections
13:43:53 [hknublau]
TallTed: We could post comment that we will consider they are satisfied in a few days
13:47:43 [hknublau]
hknublau: New tests were added, so not everything is green right now.
13:49:29 [hknublau]
ipolikof: We should not allow further tests since we are a week over the deadline.
13:50:44 [ipolikof]
PROPOSAL: No additional tests from the community will be used in the recommendation process, unless the WG votes to allow them
13:50:51 [hknublau]
+1
13:51:01 [TallTed]
+1
13:51:03 [pano]
+1
13:51:04 [Jack_]
+1
13:51:06 [ipolikof]
+1
13:51:07 [simonstey]
+1
13:51:29 [ipolikof]
RESOLUTION: No additional tests from the community will be used in the recommendation process, unless the WG votes to allow them
13:52:02 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:52:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/03-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
13:52:08 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:52:27 [TallTed]
chair: ipolikof
13:52:38 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:52:38 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/03-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
13:52:44 [TallTed]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:53:21 [TallTed]
trackbot, end meeting
13:53:21 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
13:53:21 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been TallTed, hknublau, simonstey, ipolikof, present, Jack_, pano
13:53:29 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:53:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/03-shapes-minutes.html trackbot
13:53:30 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
13:53:30 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items