13:00:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #shapes
13:00:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/05/03-shapes-irc
13:00:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs rdf-data-shapes
13:00:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #shapes
13:00:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SHAPES
13:00:39 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
13:00:40 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Data Shapes Working Group Teleconference
13:00:40 <trackbot> Date: 03 May 2017
13:00:57 <TallTed> present+
13:00:58 <hknublau> present+
13:01:03 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:01:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/03-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
13:01:10 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:02:16 <ipolikof> ipolikof has joined #shapes
13:02:37 <simonstey> present+
13:03:04 <ipolikof> present+
13:04:03 <Jack_> +present
13:04:05 <TallTed> Zakim, who's here?
13:04:06 <Zakim> Present: TallTed, hknublau, simonstey, ipolikof, present
13:04:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see ipolikof, Zakim, RRSAgent, hknublau, TallTed, Jack_, simonstey, trackbot, sandro
13:04:09 <sandroid> sandroid has joined #shapes
13:04:21 <Jack_> present+
13:04:26 <TallTed> -present
13:04:30 <TallTed> Zakim, who's here?
13:04:31 <Zakim> Present: TallTed, hknublau, simonstey, ipolikof, Jack_
13:04:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see sandroid, ipolikof, Zakim, RRSAgent, hknublau, TallTed, Jack_, simonstey, trackbot, sandro
13:05:01 <hknublau> scribenick: hknublau
13:05:19 <ipolikof> PROPOSED: Approve minutes of the 26 April 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/04/26-shapes-minutes.html
13:05:20 <pano> pano has joined #shapes
13:05:21 <hknublau> +1
13:05:25 <simonstey> +1
13:05:31 <ipolikof> +1
13:05:38 <TallTed> +1
13:05:57 <Jack_> +1
13:05:57 <ipolikof> RESOLUTION: Approve minutes of the 26 April 2017 Telecon: https://www.w3.org/2017/04/26-shapes-minutes.html
13:06:00 <pano> present+
13:06:21 <hknublau> TOPIC: Formal Objections
13:07:02 <hknublau> ipolikoff: Procedural objection on cut off of tests may need Sandro's input
13:07:26 <ipolikof> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-shapes/2017May/0001.html
13:07:54 <hknublau> ipolikof: Summary of objection
13:08:22 <hknublau> ... sequence path does allow other triples than rdf:first and rdf:rest
13:08:51 <hknublau> ... Peter then created scenarios where this may confuse users or tools
13:09:50 <hknublau> ... Peter suggested alternative definition
13:10:05 <hknublau> ... Would require republishing another CR
13:10:14 <simonstey> +q
13:10:20 <hknublau> ack simonstey
13:11:21 <hknublau> simonstey: Proposed solution would be OK in principle as long as it doesn't break other parts of SHACL
13:13:25 <hknublau> ipolikof: No strong reason to put comments on the path itself
13:13:56 <hknublau> hknublau: Process is there for a reason. Late changes should only be made for very strong reasons.
13:14:01 <simonstey> +q
13:14:29 <hknublau> ack simonstey
13:14:38 <TallTed> q+
13:14:56 <hknublau> simonstey: I am fine with that too, but we need a rational explanation beside process
13:15:06 <hknublau> ack TallTed
13:18:50 <hknublau> TallTed: We need a good explanation.
13:19:06 <simonstey> +q
13:19:53 <hknublau> hknublau: We have test cases that exclude the cases that Peter created.
13:20:10 <hknublau> ack simonstey
13:20:37 <hknublau> simonstey: If this small change would not change implementations I hope this doesn't require a new CR
13:21:56 <hknublau> ... we need to confirm this from Sandro.
13:22:48 <ipolikof> PROPOSAL: Make an editorial clarification that sequence paths are subjects of only 2 triples - as long as sandro confirms it can go in as editorial only
13:25:51 <hknublau> TallTed: We have tests to double-check and confirm the spec, I think this is viable.
13:26:03 <ipolikof> PROPOSAL: Make an editorial clarification that sequence paths should be subjects of only 2 triples, any other triples are ignored by implementations
13:27:08 <TallTed> PROPOSAL: Make an editorial clarification that sequence paths should be subjects of only 2 triples, any other triples shall be ignored by implementations, bringing the prose of the spec in line with the tests which have always carried the intent.
13:27:25 <ipolikof> +1
13:27:30 <TallTed> +1
13:27:36 <simonstey> +1
13:27:38 <Jack_> +1
13:27:40 <pano> +1
13:28:01 <hknublau> 0
13:28:03 <ipolikof> RESOLUTION: Make an editorial clarification that sequence paths should be subjects of only 2 triples, any other triples shall be ignored by implementations, bringing the prose of the spec in line with the tests which have always carried the intent.
13:28:33 <hknublau> Topic: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-shapes/2017May/0004.html
13:29:03 <hknublau> ipolikof: I wrote an email, just summarizing it.
13:29:23 <hknublau> ... 1) "Large" number of queries now disallowed
13:29:44 <hknublau> ... As soon as you disallow a single keyword, you disallow a large number of queries (of course)
13:30:08 <hknublau> ... But we just disallowed SERVICE (which has security and technical issues), MINUS and VALUES, which are syntactic sugar.
13:30:56 <hknublau> ... 2) Interoperability: what if some implementations allow them, others don't - ill-formed is rather soft
13:31:26 <hknublau> ... we could make this stricter, saying IF a query violates those rules, an impl MUST throw a failure.
13:32:00 <hknublau> ... Would require changes to implementations and tests
13:33:08 <simonstey> +q
13:33:17 <hknublau> ack simonstey
13:34:40 <hknublau> simonstey: Peter also mentioned equals
13:34:44 <ipolikof> PROPOSAL: Require SHACL_SPARQL processors to throw an error if queries contain MINUS, VALUES or SERVICE keywords
13:34:57 <hknublau> hknublau: This (and other parts of the objection) are outdated and should be resubmitted
13:35:08 <simonstey> http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl/#EqualsConstraintComponent
13:35:45 <simonstey> https://www.w3.org/TR/shacl/#EqualsConstraintComponent
13:36:00 <hknublau> +1
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13:37:00 <simonstey> +1
13:37:30 <ipolikof> PROPOSAL: Require SHACL_SPARQL processors to throw an error if queries contain MINUS, VALUES or SERVICE keywords or violate any restrictions in the pre-binding appendix
13:38:14 <hknublau> +1
13:38:21 <Jack_> +1
13:38:24 <pano> +1
13:38:25 <TallTed> +1
13:38:33 <simonstey> +1
13:38:38 <ipolikof> +1
13:39:01 <ipolikof> RESOLUTION: Require SHACL-SPARQL processors to throw an error if queries contain MINUS, VALUES or SERVICE keywords or violate any restrictions in the pre-binding appendix
13:39:47 <hknublau> Topic: Open Issues
13:43:29 <hknublau> hknublau: We could add label to indicate they are covered by Formal Objections
13:43:53 <hknublau> TallTed: We could post comment that we will consider they are satisfied in a few days
13:47:43 <hknublau> hknublau: New tests were added, so not everything is green right now.
13:49:29 <hknublau> ipolikof: We should not allow further tests since we are a week over the deadline.
13:50:44 <ipolikof> PROPOSAL: No additional tests from the community will be used in the recommendation process, unless the WG votes to allow them
13:50:51 <hknublau> +1
13:51:01 <TallTed> +1
13:51:03 <pano> +1
13:51:04 <Jack_> +1
13:51:06 <ipolikof> +1
13:51:07 <simonstey> +1
13:51:29 <ipolikof> RESOLUTION: No additional tests from the community will be used in the recommendation process, unless the WG votes to allow them
13:52:02 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:52:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/03-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
13:52:08 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:52:27 <TallTed> chair: ipolikof
13:52:38 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:52:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/03-shapes-minutes.html TallTed
13:52:44 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:53:21 <TallTed> trackbot, end meeting
13:53:21 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
13:53:21 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been TallTed, hknublau, simonstey, ipolikof, present, Jack_, pano
13:53:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
13:53:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/05/03-shapes-minutes.html trackbot
13:53:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
13:53:30 <RRSAgent> I see no action items