13:53:52 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:53:52 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/04/20-dap-irc 13:53:54 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:53:54 Zakim has joined #dap 13:53:56 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:53:56 ok, trackbot 13:53:57 Meeting: Device and Sensors Working Group Teleconference 13:53:57 Date: 20 April 2017 13:54:10 fjh has changed the topic to: das agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0018.html 13:54:17 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0018.html 13:54:43 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 13:54:48 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 13:57:01 Present+ Alexander_Shalamov 13:57:16 Regrets+ Mikhail_Pozdnyakov 13:58:15 zkis has joined #dap 14:01:09 anssik has joined #dap 14:03:01 Present+ Tobie_Langel 14:03:08 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:05:21 Scribenick: tobie 14:05:29 Present+ Wanming_Lin 14:05:37 Topic: Welcome, scribe selection, agenda review, announcements 14:05:46 New WDs published for Accelerometer, Gyroscope, Magnetometer , https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0017.html 14:05:59 hi anssi :) 14:06:00 TPAC F2F planning, please respond before 1 May, https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0014.html 14:06:42 anssik: there might be overlaps, but that's the best effort. 14:07:03 anssik: if we find funding could fjh travel? 14:07:27 fjh: that would really help. 14:07:45 github week 1 : https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0019.html 14:08:10 github week 2: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0020.html 14:08:52 s/help./help, however still need to understand if I can go/ 14:10:23 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0021.html 14:11:05 tobie: suggests F2F in Europe outside of TPAC 14:13:04 action: fjh discuss F2F alternatives/approach with dom 14:13:04 Created ACTION-793 - Discuss f2f alternatives/approach with dom [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2017-04-27]. 14:13:33 dom has joined #dap 14:13:42 Topic: Minutes approval 14:13:51 Approve minutes from 6 April 2017 14:13:51 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/att-0013/minutes-2017-04-06.html 14:13:58 proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 6 April 2017 are approved 14:14:05 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 6 April 2017 are approved 14:14:16 Topic: FPWD of Orientation Sensor specification and FPWD of Motion Explainer Note 14:14:36 CfC completed successfully https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Apr/0022.html 14:14:43 Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 14:15:01 action: fjh to send transition request for Orientation Sensor specification and FPWD of Motion Explainer Note 14:15:04 Created ACTION-794 - Send transition request for orientation sensor specification and fpwd of motion explainer note [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2017-04-27]. 14:22:30 Topic: HTML Media Capture update 14:22:53 CR transition request sent and approved, sent publication request. 14:22:54 fjh: transition request sent and approved 14:23:27 Topic: Screen Orientation API 14:23:49 shalamov: was busy with other things. Will do next week 14:24:26 fjh: suggests fwd the message to the group 14:24:43 dom: request was for GH issue 14:25:01 fjh: suggests responding on the list first so the group is aware 14:25:23 shalamov: what mailing list? 14:25:34 dom: public-webapps@ 14:25:48 Topic: Generic Sensor API 14:25:50 Topic: Generic Sensor API 14:26:05 fjh: github summary is super useful. Thanks dom et al. 14:26:56 fjh: permissions are hard 14:28:35 tobie: great that implementers are getting involved with permissions and security work 14:28:49 … have some stuff available in different places 14:29:19 … new threats keep emerging 14:29:36 … want to first write a paper and discuss and use as basis for moving forward 14:29:53 … do not have shared understanding of goals, use cases and risks 14:30:32 … material is in various issues, which is why need to pull together; lost original draft 14:31:05 … discussions on new threats, issues, mechanisms, implementer notes 14:31:46 … re high level versus low level and security - put tighter permissions on low level APIs 14:32:32 … thus provide incentive for higher level APIs, e.g. fewer user prompts etc 14:33:40 … fingerprinting , eavesdropping using sensors etc - so many threats and many unexpected. Hard to explain to non-experts 14:34:24 s/permissions are hard/two questions - concern about security risks with low level APIs , though you make good argument in email; and permsissions approach/ 14:35:07 … some sensor use cases need low level access, others might not (e.g. ambient light). 14:35:16 … different sensors have different use cases, threats and issues 14:35:32 … just starting, need to create shared goals 14:35:58 anssik: tobie will have F2F time with Lucaz next week 14:36:03 tobie: yes, good 14:36:14 s./Lucaz/Lucasz/ 14:36:26 s/Lucaz/Lucasz/ 14:36:59 +1 on "permission prompt" being a bad approach 14:37:09 +1 14:37:10 tobie:promiting for permissions is bad 14:37:17 (but that's distinct from binding sensors to a permission system à la Permission API) 14:37:29 right, just train users to say yes to prompts 14:37:46 s/tobie:promiting/tobie: prompting/ 14:39:06 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:39:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/20-dap-minutes.html fjh 14:39:46 tobie: would like more conversations with Google implementers working on security 14:39:51 … on this topic 14:39:58 do we need a workshop> 14:40:03 s/>/?/ 14:40:22 @dom does this sound like a W3C workshop? 14:41:41 tobie: mistake to assume magic number for security, like sensor frequency of 60Hz, need to understand use cases 14:42:08 q+ 14:42:33 ack dom 14:42:57 fjh: propose workshop of security and permissions on sensors - focus might be good, ratther than generic F2F 14:43:07 dom: had a F2F similar to this in Paris 14:43:27 dom: in 2015> 14:43:31 s/>/?/ 14:43:55 fjh: might be worth doing again, first look at what the result of the earlier workshop was 14:43:58 https://www.w3.org/2014/07/permissions/ 14:44:31 dom: new workshop on new threats, new lessons, new work 14:44:35 +1 14:44:49 https://www.w3.org/2014/privacyws/ 14:44:56 https://www.w3.org/2014/07/permissions/minutes.html 14:45:19 tobie: lacking work now on permissions API, not a priority 14:45:22 … concern 14:45:37 fjh: can make permsissions a priority if we get interest and agreement on goals at workshop 14:45:51 s/permsissions/permissions/ 14:46:18 tobie: issues arise, e.g. revocation of permissions, policy; there is a whole ecosystem of work to consider 14:47:16 action: fjh to review outcome of W3C Workshop on trust and permissions for web applications 14:47:16 Created ACTION-795 - Review outcome of w3c workshop on trust and permissions for web applications [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2017-04-27]. 14:47:51 dom: rough agreement on this? 14:48:55 dom: I'll start conversation internally 14:49:04 fjh: think useful to consider this as part of the conversation of whether to have a F2F 14:51:46 dom: need to answer the question as to why another workshop and what is new 14:52:27 ACTION: Dom to look at potential for a permissions-oriented w3c meeting/workshop 14:52:28 Created ACTION-796 - Look at potential for a permissions-oriented w3c meeting/workshop [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2017-04-27]. 14:53:29 action: tobie to provide a list of important questions and concerns that need answers - for which a workshop might help 14:53:30 Created ACTION-797 - Provide a list of important questions and concerns that need answers - for which a workshop might help [on Tobie Langel - due 2017-04-27]. 14:56:02 https://w3c.github.io/permissions/ 14:56:19 Topic: Wake Lock 14:56:19 https://github.com/w3c/permissions 14:56:44 fjh: wakelock API had an issue with secure context 14:57:02 dom: spec was re-written based on TAG feedback 14:57:14 dom: TAG was happy with proposed changes 14:57:44 dom: I saw old issue with secure context which needed to be revisited 14:58:17 fjh: seems like an issue we could easily fix 14:58:30 fjh: should we ping Andrej? 14:58:53 fjh: we'll just leave it in the minutes 14:59:08 Ajourn 14:59:37 Topic: Other Business 14:59:39 none 14:59:44 Topic: Adjourn 14:59:47 Thanks everyone 14:59:49 wanming has left #dap 14:59:52 good call 15:00:20 Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 15:00:26 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:00:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/20-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:00:48 s/hi anssi :)// 15:01:18 s/github week/github weekly summary/g 15:01:48 Note we discussed F2F issues with Dom on call so no need for follow up action 15:02:11 ACTIONB-793: discussed during teleconference 15:02:23 ACTION-793: discussed during teleconference 15:02:23 Notes added to ACTION-793 Discuss f2f alternatives/approach with dom. 15:02:30 s/ACTIONB-793: discussed during teleconference// 15:02:40 close ACTION-793 15:02:40 Closed ACTION-793. 15:03:27 s/transition request sent and approved/transition request sent and approved; I also sent publication request/ 15:03:52 s/suggests responding on the list first so the group is aware/suggests responding on the list first so the group is aware, noting that issues will be entered into GH/ 15:04:26 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:04:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/20-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:38:38 zkis has joined #dap 17:24:53 Zakim has left #dap