06:32:28 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 06:32:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/04/07-wot-td-irc 06:32:49 Meeting: WoT WG - TF-TD 06:33:08 present: Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Feng_Zhang, Taki_Kamiya 06:33:29 present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch 06:33:59 present+ Michael_McCool 06:34:17 McCool has joined #wot-td 06:34:29 p+ Michael McCool 06:34:59 present+ Yongjing_Zhang 06:35:56 sebastian has joined #wot-td 06:36:27 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Agenda 06:37:02 scribe: Michael 06:37:09 scribenick: McCool 06:37:43 DarkoAnicic has joined #wot-td 06:37:50 present+ DarkoAnicic 06:38:00 next week no TD call 06:38:08 as noted in agenda 06:38:33 next TD call will be Friday 21 April 06:38:41 i|next week|topic: Logistics| 06:39:12 topic: repo reorg 06:39:22 new repo only for TD 06:39:30 yingying has joined #wot-td 06:39:35 suggest all issues related to TD should go in new repo 06:39:48 w3c/wot-thing-description 06:40:02 from: https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues to: https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description 06:40:10 existing TD issues moved, eg binary description 06:40:15 present+ Yingying_Chen 06:40:22 https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/307 06:40:34 present+ Achille_Zappa 06:40:40 issue with not very clear description of data types 06:41:31 type definitions seem to be overly complicated... there is alternative proposed 06:41:49 however, existing format allows for semantic tagging 06:42:47 Sebastian points to discussion on github for details... JSON Schema interactions 06:43:16 have contact with JSON schema group 06:43:33 should like to add new item to JSON Schema definition to add semantic annotations 06:44:04 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/290 issue-290 06:44:07 maybe makes sense to initiate proposal with JSON Schema group 06:44:18 q+ 06:44:43 would like to have concrete proposal for Osaka F2F, so we can make a decision 06:45:06 first step: ask for volunteers to work on a proposal 06:45:27 in past had a subgroup to work on data type definitions... 06:45:38 Daniel: proposing different approach 06:45:51 feel they are the experts, so... 06:45:59 perhaps start the discussion first in an issue 06:46:15 can still do a proposal, but first we should see their stand 06:46:28 then we can determine best way to move forward 06:46:31 achille_z has joined #wot-td 06:47:09 sebastian: most important thing is to start discussion (with IETF group?) 06:47:43 perhaps we make a small example and start the discussion this way 06:47:58 present+ Achille_Zappa 06:48:17 andrew already has a good understanding of what we would like to have 06:48:17 q+ 06:48:30 ack dape 06:48:31 we are not experts, but we should work together with them on this 06:48:54 still makes sense to pick a subgroup 06:49:01 Saki and Daniel ok? 06:49:07 s/Saki/Taki/ 06:49:28 i/Saki/Taki/ 06:49:37 Taki: so where should we start? 06:49:40 ack k 06:50:39 andrew aware of us at Santa Clara mtg, but nothing has happened so far 06:51:16 Sebastian: github issue would be a more formal way to move this forward (rather than the mailing list) 06:51:27 kaz: which group? 06:51:35 https://github.com/json-schema-org/json-schema-spec 06:51:48 can andrew simply join *this* group 06:52:08 Sebastian: thought we would create issue in JSON schema group 06:52:40 we are asking them to modify JSON, so it makes sense to make the proposal/issue on their group 06:52:58 kaz: we should decide what core issue is 06:53:25 then we should enter it on their system, then track it with an issue here that refers to the issue on the JSON Schema group 06:53:47 kaz; we should come up with a specific use case 06:53:53 that needs these issues 06:54:09 Sebastian: can refer also to current practices document, issues on TD 06:54:22 p+ 06:55:34 example is that we would like to integrate semantics into the data type definition itself 06:56:07 in addition, would be useful to have Victor in the loop 06:56:25 he may have some suggestions on how to do this integration 06:56:37 Sebastian: this is just a starting point to the discussion 06:56:47 q+ 06:57:11 ack dape 06:57:18 Daniel: so this path means we will not change this before the Osaka meeting... 06:57:41 topic: what version of TD should we use for Osaka mtg 06:58:07 Sebastian: realistically, no time to make change to data type definitions 06:58:30 only have about 4-5 weeks left before F2F 06:58:37 need stable version 2-3 weeks before 06:59:12 so we need to nail down version for Osaka by end of April: 24 or 25 06:59:25 only about 2 weeks left for any new implementation 06:59:35 and... no meeting next week 07:00:18 q- 07:01:00 probably no change in data types for Osaka meeting... but afterwards, if we can coordinate with JSON Schema group, can come up with concrete proposal for next F2F in Germany 07:01:15 Sebastian: for Osaka, want concrete and stable TD model 07:02:32 comments? Group agrees 07:04:35 sebastian: want clear model written up by time of F2F 07:04:47 topic: TD model discussion 07:05:17 some points of discussion in agenda, Maria's model 07:05:57 (brings up Maria's model in slide) 07:06:14 however... want to modify a few things 07:06:39 first thing, Sebastian wants to remove relative Endpoint 07:06:54 href can already be a relative path 07:07:24 other things already listed in the agenda 07:07:33 next point: default value definition, remove 07:08:02 it has impact on the data type definition, should be defined there (eg in JSON Schema) 07:08:20 no need to do it at the property level, can be done at the data type level 07:08:50 also, suggest removing the differentiation between physical and virtual thing 07:09:16 but causes problems with Things that have aspects of both 07:10:44 q+ 07:10:54 next, ask to change how communication metadata is defined... protocol bindings, how does this apply here? 07:11:05 Sebastian has asked Matthias for input here 07:11:59 next, Sebastian would like to change data format class to just data type; make note that we are relying on JSON Schema definition 07:12:09 q+ 07:12:45 also need to define namespaces; Maria used her own, we need a more official namespace from the W3C 07:13:34 we need our own namespace that is unique to TD... need to decide how to do 07:14:04 and we should look for things we can reuse, eg href 07:14:09 from other namespaces 07:14:16 or rdf:label for names 07:14:20 q? 07:14:34 need a clear list what is really "new" for WoT 07:15:02 Sebastian: Darko, would you be willing to look in to this? 07:15:13 Darko: yes, willing to work with Maria on these issues 07:15:21 Darko: few more comments 07:15:38 Darko: what about communication patterns and security data here 07:15:45 Q+ 07:17:58 Darko: other thing is Data Format... Sebastian says there is already a CR 07:18:28 Sebastian wants to point to schema, so would just remove this, and rely on JSON Schema 07:18:48 s/remove/change/ 07:19:25 Sebastian: reiterates that it would be good to identify namespaces that are unique to WoT 07:19:50 Sebastian: for other stuff, should indicate what other namespaces should be used; make a table or something 07:19:56 Dave already looked into this 07:20:24 Darko: yes, we need to talk to Dave about this 07:20:44 q+ 07:22:47 McCool: security aspects can be handled similarily to protocols 07:22:57 let's just add a placeholder for now 07:23:22 McCool: second point, adding semantics to JSON Schema useful for other applications, eg OpenAPI 07:24:15 q? 07:24:42 Sebastian: please queue up any additional issues on the new repo 07:25:06 Also, want to generate new diagram to discuss in the next meeting... 07:25:13 then will take this model to the Osaka meeting 07:25:36 Sebastian: this is the plan; ok with people? Silence... taken as assent. 07:25:57 Sebastian: see you all in two weeks! 07:26:15 [ adjourned ] 07:26:28 rrsagent, make log public 07:26:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 07:26:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/07-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 08:42:43 zkis has joined #wot-td 11:18:35 Zakim has left #wot-td