19:37:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdw
19:37:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-sdw-irc
19:37:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:37:45 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdw
19:37:47 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
19:37:47 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
19:37:48 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
19:37:48 <trackbot> Date: 05 April 2017
19:38:08 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20170405
19:41:04 <ChrisLittle> phil is the webbed up yet? I am trying different (old) hardware. IRC OK so far. Chris
19:41:19 <ChrisLittle> s/webbed/webex/
19:42:05 <achille_zappa> achille_zappa has joined #sdw
19:45:51 <ChrisLittle> Thanks
19:46:29 <ChrisLittle> * sorry forgot the asterisk
19:49:26 <eparsons> eparsons has joined #sdw
19:53:55 <ahaller2> ahaller2 has joined #sdw
19:58:30 <tidoust> tidoust has joined #sdw
19:59:52 <eparsons> Ah Ok thanks
20:00:03 <kerry> present+ kerry
20:00:05 <eparsons> trackbot, start meeting
20:00:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
20:00:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
20:00:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
20:00:11 <trackbot> Date: 05 April 2017
20:00:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
20:00:31 <eparsons> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:00:41 <eparsons> Present+ eparsons
20:00:57 <ChrisLittle> present+ ChrisLittle
20:02:15 <DanhLePhuoc> present+ DanhLePhuoc
20:02:21 <Payam> Payam has joined #sdw
20:03:33 <RaulGarciaCastro> present+ RaulGarciaCastro
20:03:42 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
20:04:07 <tidoust> present+ Francois
20:04:16 <KJanowic> [Still getting 'the meeting is not in progress']
20:04:30 <eparsons> Use new url https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m08e2adcf985c93871274c6df47ba7aec
20:05:16 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdw
20:05:33 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
20:05:35 <ahaller2> present+ ahaller2
20:05:50 <KJanowic> present+
20:07:10 <Payam> present+ Payam
20:07:37 <achille_z> achille_z has joined #sdw
20:08:01 <MattPerry> is webex working?
20:08:13 <eparsons> Matt new url https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m08e2adcf985c93871274c6df47ba7aec
20:08:14 <KJanowic> I will have to leave in about 30min (I have to teach a class)
20:08:41 <MattPerry> thanks
20:09:06 <eparsons> Topic : Patent Call
20:09:07 <Payam> Patent call
20:09:14 <eparsons> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
20:09:22 <eparsons> Topic : Approve last week's minutes
20:09:43 <eparsons> https://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-sdw-minutes
20:09:53 <kerry> +1
20:09:54 <ahaller2> +1
20:09:55 <eparsons> +1
20:10:02 <ChrisLittle> +0 WAS NOT THERE
20:10:07 <phila> This was day 1 of the F2F
20:10:09 <Payam> +) wasn't there
20:10:15 <KJanowic> 0
20:10:17 <phila> (wasn't present
20:10:17 <RaulGarciaCastro> +0 (not there)
20:10:21 <MattPerry> +0
20:10:24 <eparsons> https://www.w3.org/2017/03/21-sdw-minutes
20:10:29 <kerry> +1
20:10:32 <RaulGarciaCastro> +1
20:10:35 <KJanowic> 0
20:10:37 <ahaller2> +1
20:10:39 <Payam> +0 - wasn't there
20:10:40 <ChrisLittle> +0 not there too
20:10:48 <eparsons> +1
20:10:50 <phila> +1
20:10:56 <eparsons> RESOLUTION : Approve last week's minutes
20:11:20 <Payam> Topic: SSN naming
20:11:21 <eparsons> TOPIC : SSN Deliverables & timeframes
20:12:35 <Payam> phila: discusses the recent SSN meeting and the current emails (regarding the naming)
20:13:03 <Payam> phila : in Delft we agreed to have 2 separate names  and there will be a common base name
20:13:38 <Payam> phila : there were lots of discussions in Delft about the naming
20:14:41 <Payam> phila : there recent complaints aren't been agreed with.
20:14:43 <KJanowic> q+
20:15:30 <Payam> phila : we seem not to have a consensus in this part of the work
20:15:55 <KJanowic> Phil, can I briefly jump in here.
20:16:18 <Payam> phila : that this work (SSN) might become a note in the end.
20:17:05 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/discovery-api/ Discover API
20:17:43 <eparsons> ack KJanowic
20:17:53 <Payam> phila : this is an example of document that the group didn't come an agreement
20:18:07 <ahaller2> q+
20:18:49 <Payam> KJanowic : discusses the current emails and issues;
20:19:26 <Payam> KJanowic : asks for more time to come to an agreement; feels there have been lots of improvements
20:19:57 <Payam> KJanowic : we can work this out; we can have a good draft by the 17th. Let's wait until the 17th.
20:20:14 <Payam> KJanowic : it's not as bad as it seems
20:20:15 <eparsons> ack next
20:20:46 <Payam> ahaller2 : is commenting on the naming issue
20:21:26 <KJanowic> Yes, naming will not sink this. Those that disagreed still offered alternative options.
20:21:27 <KJanowic> q+
20:21:42 <Payam> ahaller2 : this is a very small issue in the end. Armin acknowledges that there was an agreement initially during the f2f meeting
20:22:49 <Payam> ahaller2 : feels that the groups is working swiftly to address the issues; if we have the chance to work on the SSN document for 2 more weeks, the issues will be resolved
20:22:53 <KJanowic> Can I add one more comment?
20:23:30 <Payam> eparsons : acknowledge the huge amount of work that has been dedicated to the SSN work
20:24:02 <Payam> eparsons : naming is a serious issue and consensus seems to be a problem.
20:24:35 <eparsons> ack next
20:24:36 <Payam> eparsons : resolving these issues seem to a big task; maybe a note could be good choice
20:25:27 <Payam> KJanowic : suggests referring to the [previous] meeting minutes
20:26:02 <Payam> KJanowic : is discussing the voting process and the agreement process
20:27:14 <Payam> KJanowic : the naming issues requires some compromise and suggests to continue the work until the 17th; this can be done successfully
20:27:24 <Payam> KJanowic : let's give it one more chance
20:27:51 <Payam> kerry : agrees that most of the meetings are productive
20:29:03 <KJanowic> Kerry, you are part of the group. Please join us instead of fighting the rest of us constantly!
20:29:07 <KJanowic> q+
20:29:08 <Payam> kerry : when she read the minutes, an issue that she had raised was discussed when she wasn't around and voted and agreed while she had a different view on the matter
20:29:15 <KJanowic> How can you say that we have almost nothing?
20:29:43 <Payam> kerry : feels resolving the issues in the remaining time is not realistic
20:29:44 <eparsons> ack KJanowic
20:30:26 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #sdw
20:30:56 <Payam> KJanowic : feels differently; KJanowic feels the group is almost ready
20:30:59 <Payam> +q
20:31:20 <eparsons> ack next
20:31:40 <phila> Payam: As an external observer, I read the emails my feeling is that there is no consensus.
20:31:52 <phila> ... What Phil says, W3C/OGC are about consensus
20:31:59 <KJanowic> Armin, can you speak up to this?
20:32:16 <SimonCox> present+
20:32:22 <ahaller2> q+
20:32:23 <SimonCox> Sorry I'm very very late
20:32:27 <eparsons> ack next
20:33:08 <Payam> ahaller2 : commenting on Payam's comments: people have different opinions
20:33:33 <SimonCox> I hear that. I can't contribute yet as I don't know state of conversation.
20:33:38 <phila> regrets+ Scott, Josh, Byron, Jeremy, Linda, Andrea
20:33:42 <Payam> ahaller2 : refers to the meeting that kerry couldn't join and there was a vote (it wasn't on purpose)
20:34:04 <Payam> kerry : didn't mean that it was deliberate
20:35:03 <KJanowic> Simon?
20:35:16 <Payam> ahaller2 : feels given more time the group can progress
20:36:14 <SimonCox> Sorry - I was trying to speak but clearly my mike is not working :-(
20:36:21 <Payam> phila : is aware that this work seems to be close to be [virtually] stopped
20:36:25 <kerry> q
20:36:28 <kerry> q
20:36:49 <KJanowic> q+
20:36:50 <Payam> phila : acknowledges that the SSN work is superb
20:37:27 <Payam> phila : this could become 2 separate "note"s
20:37:56 <Payam> phila : we are here to help run the process
20:39:01 <Payam> phila : is talking about the status of the time ontology;
20:39:55 <Payam> phila : regarding the ssn we should consider what is best for the group
20:40:39 <Payam> SimonCox : agrees with phila's assessment of the current status of the ssn
20:42:29 <Payam> SimonCox : feels there is a significant collaborative work in ssn (50% of the group) and some part of the group seem to be passive and another part has not considered the progress until it became too late
20:43:26 <KJanowic> q+
20:43:38 <Payam> eparsons : would like to hear from the ssn group, what would be a realistic proposal?
20:43:44 <eparsons> ack next
20:44:26 <Payam> KJanowic : is there any chance to get 2 more weeks? KJanowic wan't to give another try
20:44:43 <Payam> s/wan't/wants
20:45:01 <Payam> s/give another/give it another
20:45:32 <Payam> phila : it is not only 2 more weeks; it needs implementation and ...
20:45:52 <KJanowic> Yes, why don't we wait until the 17th.
20:46:02 <Payam> ack kerry
20:46:06 <SimonCox> In response to Ed: my judgement is that consensus is now less of a problem than the sheer workload in front of us - I think phila jus said this too
20:46:23 <KJanowic> I fully understand and am fine with whatever decision you take but have to leave now.
20:46:43 <KJanowic> Thanks Ed and Phil,  appreciate your feedback
20:47:00 <Payam> eparsons : if the ssn group feel they want to push towards the 17th deadline, they won't be stopped. it's your call...
20:47:52 <ahaller2> q+
20:47:55 <Payam> phila : is discussing the email issues
20:47:59 <eparsons> ack next
20:49:02 <roba> roba has joined #sdw
20:49:07 <Payam> ahaller2 : will try to speak offline ad make a decision
20:49:15 <roba> time zone fail - sorry
20:49:24 <Payam> TOPIC: Time ontology
20:50:35 <Payam> SimonCox : the time ontology is mainly done by one person.
20:51:10 <Payam> SimonCox : this is a re-documentation and providing a formal specification
20:51:31 <Payam> SimonCox : some additional proposals have also been made
20:51:33 <ChrisLittle_> ChrisLittle_ has joined #sdw
20:51:50 <ChrisLittle_> present+ ChrisLittle_
20:52:15 <phila> present+
20:53:08 <Payam> SimonCox : has worked on the implementation- SimonCox  thinks they can show 2 separate implementation and  lots of evidence of using the time ontology in other ontologies
20:54:07 <Payam> SimonCox : if the evidence of use is that the time ontology being used in other ontologies then there are sufficient evidence
20:54:28 <Payam> SimonCox : this document requires more examples
20:55:19 <Payam> SimonCox : believes by the next meeting, the document will be presentable
20:55:57 <Payam> ChrisLittle_ : has been reading and reviewing the documents - agrees with SimonCox
20:56:50 <Payam> ChrisLittle_ : has a version with too many examples
20:57:28 <tidoust> q+ to wonder whether we could start horizontal reviews right away
20:57:29 <Payam> ChrisLittle_ : is discussing a public comment that they have had
20:57:47 <Payam> phila : the next stage will be a recommendation
20:58:03 <Payam> phila : this will require evidence of a wider view
20:58:48 <Payam> phila : we should show evidence that we have asked other people to review this
20:59:08 <Payam> phila : are there any new terms that will be difficult to find evidence of use?
20:59:30 <Payam> SimonCox : there will be around 5 new terms (out of 30?)
20:59:43 <Payam> phila : this could pose a risk
21:00:18 <Payam> phila : you need to collect and show the evidence that you have asked other people to review and look at this document
21:00:42 <Payam> phila : this should be done very soon
21:01:34 <eparsons> ack tidoust
21:01:34 <Zakim> tidoust, you wanted to wonder whether we could start horizontal reviews right away
21:02:45 <Payam> tidoust : is discussing the issue notes and other considerations/changes that time ontology team require...
21:02:59 <Payam> tidoust : who do we need to ask?
21:03:19 <ChrisLittle_> q+
21:03:29 <Payam> phila : OGC, relevant groups... and record your evidence and efforts
21:03:54 <Payam> SimonCox : is asking the rest of the group to help with this
21:03:57 <eparsons> ack ChrisLittle_
21:04:26 <Payam> ChrisLittle_ : OGC has a group and he will circulate the document to them.
21:04:38 <Payam> eparsons : we need to do this now..
21:05:12 <tidoust> s/is discussing the issue notes and other considerations/changes that time ontology team require.../document seems ready enough for wide review. What bugs me is the presence of issue notes that link to closed issues, but apart from that, there's just one pending PR. Let's reach out! If we don't need to ask accessibility, privacy, security.../
21:05:30 <Payam> thanks tidoust
21:05:51 <Payam> eparsons : any other comments?
21:06:16 <ahaller2> thanks,bye
21:06:18 <RaulGarciaCastro> Bye!
21:06:23 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
21:06:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-sdw-minutes.html eparsons
21:06:33 <ChrisLittle_> bye
21:06:43 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:06:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-sdw-minutes.html phila
21:07:09 <phila> chair: Ed
21:07:17 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
21:07:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/04/05-sdw-minutes.html phila