IRC log of wot-td on 2017-03-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

06:30:12 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
06:30:23 [kaz]
Meeting: WoT WG - TF-TD
06:31:24 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Feng_Zhang, Maria_Poveda, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Daniel_Peintner, Taki_Kamiya, Victor_Charpenay
06:31:37 [dape]
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06:32:03 [yingying]
present+ Yingying_Chen
06:36:06 [dape]
present+ Daniel_Peintner
06:37:16 [yingying]
scribe: Yingying
06:37:19 [sebastian]
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06:37:23 [yingying]
scribenick: yingying
06:38:01 [kaz]
present+ Michele
06:38:08 [MariaPoveda]
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06:39:22 [yingying]
Topic: Logistics
06:39:58 [yingying]
Sebastian: we changed the call time one hour earlier. Hope it would be more comfortable for everybody to join it.
06:40:26 [yingying]
...hope the time be stable until the time shift in half a year.
06:40:58 [yingying]
...for issue 307
06:41:06 [yingying]
...I added two comments into it.
06:42:30 [yingying]
Victor: better to differentiate the IG and WG issues.
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06:42:50 [kaz]
i/...for/topic: Issues/
06:43:04 [yingying]
i/Victor/Daniel: new comments should be on new repository/
06:44:28 [yingying]
sebastian: binary encoding of more compact version for TD. It would be good to have a thorough evaluable for all the formats based on some UCs.
06:45:01 [yingying] would be one of the next steps to look into. Now it's a bit too early to pay too much attention on it.
06:45:55 [yingying_]
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06:46:08 [yingying_]
scribenick: yingying_
06:46:44 [yingying_]
...we need to have a more look at your model again before next step.'
06:46:58 [yingying_]
06:47:34 [yingying_]
s/your model/maria's/
06:47:47 [kaz]
-> Maria's slides
06:47:50 [yingying_]
Topic: continue the discussion of MarĂ­a's presentation
06:48:52 [yingying_]
Marie: some modification has been done on the model.
06:49:14 [kaz]
06:50:46 [kaz]
(looking at slide 10)
06:52:03 [yingying_]
Sebastian: You mentioned to use current practice document to setup the model here. Maybe a bit early.
06:52:43 [yingying_]
...DataFormat is what we call output data
06:53:27 [yingying_] can have 4 input value and 4 output value and tranformed to dataformat
06:53:44 [kaz]
present+ Achille_Zappa
06:54:01 [yingying_]
s/...propert/Marie: propert/
06:54:03 [kaz]
present+ Fernando_Serena
06:54:23 [kaz]
06:54:31 [yingying_]
Sebastian: TD does not include the runtime data. This sounds like to have some runtime data.
06:55:07 [yingying_] mentioned that you have some UCs on it. Could you share the UCs for us to have more understanding on it?
06:55:40 [yingying_]
Maria: Yes. My colleague Fernando is working on the implementation.
06:56:25 [yingying_]
Sebastian: Currently we're thinking about JSON Schema for it. I'm not sure whether JSON Schema can support this.
06:56:52 [yingying_]
Daniel: there is a field called default which could be used.
06:57:44 [yingying_]
Sebastian: about UCs I think we could discuss later on. What's the difference of relative href and non-relative href?
06:58:40 [dape]
reference how JSON schema uses default values, see
06:59:27 [dape]
06:59:39 [yingying_]
Maria: there is base href. You have to question whether this is different. Maybe an href is relative to the base href. So we need to figure out whether all the hrefs need to be calculated to the base href and combine them. otherwise you can just use the end point.
07:00:50 [kaz]
ack d
07:01:00 [yingying_]
Daniel: href is aligned with the website does in current practice. It might be relative or absolute.
07:02:39 [yingying_]
Victor: why another parameter is needed?
07:03:01 [yingying_]
Fernando: I think we can reuse the same href property.
07:04:12 [yingying_]
Marie: the relative href parameter only has the relative part. For the endpoint it is possible to need both.
07:04:41 [yingying_]
Victor: if it happens that these two are not compatible, what would you do?
07:05:25 [yingying_]
...if I try to model the TD, I would rather use the same href parameter.
07:05:55 [yingying_]
Marie: it's useful when querying you don't need to do all the string matching.
07:07:26 [yingying_]
Victor: it still makes sense to differentiate the two properties. I will add a comment on it and you can explain more on it.
07:07:51 [kaz]
07:08:17 [dape]
07:08:21 [yingying_]
Daniel: I understand that it is intended to be more efficient for search. It's an implementation problem. For the conception model, it's better to have only one href value.
07:08:59 [yingying_]
Sebastian: relative definition composed with the base uri will be the final href.
07:09:23 [yingying_]
Maria: you propose to use the same href as in current practice.
07:09:37 [yingying_]
Sebastian: Yes just as the websites are doing.
07:10:11 [yingying_]
Maria: I will have a look at the alternative.
07:10:47 [yingying_]
Sebastian: Please don't misunderstand us. We just want to understand the reason behind. Maybe there is good reason for it which we would like to know.
07:11:43 [yingying_]
...we need to decide which kind of namespace need to use for which type of vocabulary.
07:12:25 [yingying_]
...If we need to define a new one or use the already existed namespace. That's what we are discussing in the group.
07:13:33 [yingying_]
Maria: I can provide you a new presentation. I combined all the questions into it.
07:14:19 [kaz]
-> @@@Maria's updated slides@@@
07:14:56 [yingying_]
(slide 4)
07:16:20 [yingying_]
Maria: wot predicates are object properties.
07:16:43 [yingying_]
i/wot predicates/reuse namespace for trusted ones/
07:17:00 [yingying_]
07:20:09 [yingying_]
Sebastian: next question is that in your model there is a differentiation of a virtual vs. physical thing necessary.
07:21:27 [yingying_]
...are there some examples? e.g. collection of all lights in the room, etc.
07:22:00 [yingying_]
...I'm not sure whether it's necessary to include it in the model.
07:23:32 [yingying_]
Fernando: raw data or geographic information(e.g. longitude and altitude), which means it makes sense to differentiation.
07:24:45 [yingying_]
Daniel: I would not to make the differentiation. You might want to hide it's a physical or not. You might don't know whether it's physical or virtual.
07:25:13 [yingying_]
Maria: there are things that you want to represent as physical or virtual.
07:25:48 [yingying_]
...for these cases we use the ThingEcosystemDescription.
07:26:10 [yingying_]
...I don't know whether the diagram helps or makes it more confused.
07:26:28 [yingying_]
Daniel: it helps. But I would rather to keep it simple.
07:27:13 [yingying_]
Sebastian: for example, I need a temperature value but I don't care whether it comes from a thermometer or a device.
07:27:31 [yingying_]
Fernanda: an example is the GPS for navigation.
07:28:10 [yingying_]
Maria: having the physical information is helpful to calculate the exact location.
07:28:45 [yingying_]
Fernando: we are using it also to provide the access mapping. It is useful.
07:30:03 [yingying_]
...e.g. service provides information about air pollution, things are not directly from device. We need to actually the whole air pollution.
07:31:13 [yingying_]
Maria: aligned with ISO IoT RA.
07:31:59 [yingying_]
Sebastian: UCs will help us to understand the classification of physical things and virtual things.
07:32:13 [kaz]
07:32:20 [yingying_]
rrsagent, make minutes
07:32:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate yingying_
07:33:15 [yingying_]
Maria: On which use cases the model rely on? See slide 6.
07:33:36 [yingying_]
...which tool is used to setup the model? Open source? see slide 7.
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07:34:49 [yingying_]
Sebastian: We discussed in last F2F meeting which tools to use to design TD model.
07:35:27 [yingying_]
Maria: I do them manually.
07:35:48 [yingying_]
...I tried some and not very good. So I do them manually.
07:36:57 [yingying_]
Sebastian: Thanks a lot for answering the questions and making presentation.
07:36:58 [fernando]
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07:37:24 [yingying_]
...are you also open to modify your model to incorporate some of our conception?
07:38:26 [yingying_]
Maria: Yes I am open to it. I'm happy to modify the ontology to fit you better.
07:38:58 [yingying_]
Sebastian: what would be the process? Change request?
07:39:18 [dape]
07:39:19 [yingying_]
Maria: we can see the change request and discuss them in the github issues.
07:39:36 [kaz]
present+ Uday_Davuluru
07:40:01 [achille_z]
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07:40:02 [yingying_]
Sebastian: I will try to write down some change requests and discuss within the group.
07:40:22 [yingying_]
...I think no very big changes need to do.
07:40:34 [yingying_]
...ten minutes overtime.
07:40:52 [yingying_]
...thank you very much to Maria and Fernando!
07:40:57 [yingying_]
...See you in next week.
07:41:02 [yingying_]
07:41:08 [yingying_]
rrsagent, make minutes
07:41:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate yingying_
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rrsagent, make log public
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rrsagent, draft minutes
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I have made the request to generate kaz
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