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15:15:56 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:17:02 <ivan> Meeting: Publishing Business Group Telco
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15:52:05 <ivan> present+
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16:02:21 <George> George can scribe
16:02:32 <mattg> present+ mattg
16:02:34 <ivan> scribenick: George
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16:04:05 <ivan> chair: Rick_Johnson
16:04:16 <George> RJ: Thank you for joining our call. as was relayed in email from BM, we will hold this time for steering committee or the pbg. Our next call is in two weeks.
16:04:19 <Rick_Johnson> https://www.w3.org/2017/03/13-pbg-minutes.html
16:04:43 <laudrain> q+
16:04:59 <George> RJ: Minutes are linked in irc. Any comments? If no we will assume the mintes are approved.
16:05:28 <George> RJ: Move as close as possible to the charter being as close to possible.
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16:05:55 <ivan> charter issue list: https://github.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/issues
16:06:18 <pbelfanti> present+
16:06:29 <George> L: in the minutes from London. I want to know if there was a decision about Pieere position.
16:06:44 <ivan> s/Pieere/Pierre/
16:06:53 <George> Luke: the recommendation was to make a recommendation.
16:07:33 <George> RJ: George was going to reach out to Hache
16:08:22 <George> Luke send to Luke orrayan the AC rep. George will send the message to luke.
16:08:43 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:08:54 <Rick_Johnson> ack lau
16:09:33 <George> RJ: status of the charter
16:10:27 <George> IH: working group charter we are working on. There are  issues 15 and 24 that are tricky.
16:10:42 <Leslie> Leslie has joined #pbg
16:11:49 <George> IH: Take 24 first. Came incritique of goals and scope section. Discussion took place yesterday. The main issue is that it is too general withourt defining. IH agrees with the proposal.
16:12:09 <ivan> https://github.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/issues/24#issuecomment-289726627
16:12:15 <George> IH: I cam up with a shorter more concise of text. I'll put it here.
16:13:06 <George> IH: I have not received an answer from the commentor. It would be good if the rest of you could comment. We want to close this. It is the replacement text for the whole goals section.
16:13:53 <George> RJ: two inherent items within 24.
16:14:26 <George> IH: therm web publication for that one my opinion is to keep what we have.
16:14:58 <George> IH: The interest group has spent a lot of time getting to the term we have today..
16:15:24 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:15:34 <George> IH: Nothing stopping us from changing the term later in the process. So let's not do anything.
16:16:20 <George> RJ: Echo Matt that we could spend a lot of time of naming. The main job is birth and launching and not worry about the name.
16:16:36 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:16:39 <Rick_Johnson> ack bill
16:16:44 <pbelfanti> q+
16:16:56 <Rick_Johnson> ack pbel
16:16:58 <George> BK: Comment, using the word publication aligns  with the rest of language at W3c.
16:17:29 <George> Paul: We do not want to be side tracked by items that come in.
16:17:38 <George> IH. We have agreement.
16:18:08 <George> IH: I would also like omments on the goals section.
16:18:33 <George> IH: Put comments on the issues list, thursday at the latest.
16:19:22 <George> IH: I travel on Friday to OZ and if we want to get this going, it would be best to finish it up before I leave.
16:19:40 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:19:41 <George> IH: Thursday is the natural deadline.
16:20:08 <George> RJ: I will be happy to comment in that time line. We want to close this up b4 you leave.
16:20:54 <George> BK: Is concensis the lack of objection? I suggest that an email to the list that states speak up by thursday.
16:21:52 <George> IH: It would be proper to clean up the minutes and include the decisions. One of the chairs can emphasise in a follow up email that
16:22:15 <George> GK: can somebody copy names from the webx into the irc?
16:22:57 <George> IH: for those that did not follow the text that cam in a long time ago has said these things are out of scope. Including DRM.
16:23:35 <George> IH: There was text that says howver, the WG will not do anything to make DRM impossible. There is an objection against this.
16:24:08 <ivan> https://github.com/w3c/dpubwg-charter/issues/15#issuecomment-288635115
16:24:17 <George> IH: Two folks did not like this and we tried to come up with text that would be more suitable and we think we are at a spot where the test works.
16:24:40 <George> IH: I posted the text.
16:26:15 <George> IH: a few hour ago David commented and still against it and he gives an arguement. This made me think and in the way we wrote it. On one side there we will do everything to kill DRM on the web and the other camp is to enable DRM on the web.
16:26:54 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:27:41 <laurentlemeur> q+
16:27:48 <George> IH: My proposal is to cut back everything Keep the sentence is that DRM is out of scope and no other statements around this. We can expect the working group to do the right thing.
16:28:01 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:28:07 <laudrain> I’ll try
16:28:17 <ivan> scribenick: laudrain
16:28:19 <Rick_Johnson> ack bill
16:28:58 <Rick_Johnson> ack laur
16:29:00 <laudrain> BK : charter is for web pub, some profile could intrioduce that concept
16:29:02 <George> BK:Adrian comments are relevant. this means that some profile could not intrduce something. So IH rec is good.
16:29:13 <ivan> q+
16:29:17 <laudrain> LLM : for Web Pub, no issue
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16:29:55 <laudrain> For profiel there would be a need in th epackage to express which DRM is used, in a standard way
16:29:55 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/Adrian/Hadrien
16:30:02 <George> speaker??:For EPUB 4 there would need to be some information about DRM and there must be some way to find out the way the DRM is implemented in EPUB 4.
16:30:09 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:30:10 <laudrain> Only a hook
16:30:15 <Rick_Johnson> ack ivan
16:30:28 <graham> q+
16:30:28 <George> IH: We don't have the final tec solution, so speaking from the top of my head.
16:30:49 <laudrain> Ivan: no final tech solution but there will be some sort of manifet in WP and EPUB4
16:31:19 <laudrain> We will standardize the format of that manifest somethnig like that
16:31:19 <George> IH: we know there must be some text and in the packag which is a key value pairs. We will standardize a number of things that need to be in the package
16:31:42 <laudrain> q+
16:32:25 <George> IH: if the manifest is extensible, for education purposes then an external reference to DRM can be implemented, but it will not officially be a specification of DRM, so it is not in scope of the charter.
16:32:50 <Hadrien> not having a standard extension point for encryption would be problematic, not just for DRM
16:33:03 <George> IH: we cannot say that the manifext cannot be extended. By the way, the EPUB 3.1 has one hook and it is not specified.
16:33:18 <Hadrien> it's also needed for font obfuscation in EPUB
16:33:22 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:33:25 <Rick_Johnson> ack grah
16:33:55 <ivan> q+
16:34:01 <ivan> ack laudrain
16:34:05 <George> GB: One way to clarify is to say that DRM is out of scope, for the avoidance of doubt, the wg would make no specs that enables or disables the implementation.
16:34:18 <George> Thank you very much
16:34:30 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:34:36 <Rick_Johnson> ack ivan
16:34:55 <laudrain> Ivan: not sure that’s necessary
16:35:21 <laudrain> To be cleat what I propose is teh same as Moz proposed originally
16:35:34 <laudrain> s/cleat/clear/
16:35:47 <Hadrien> q+
16:35:49 <laudrain> Graham: Waht out of scope means?
16:35:59 <laudrain> calrifiaction needed
16:36:30 <laudrain> Ivan: Graham would you try to answer to the issue?
16:36:35 <graham> s/enables or disables/prevents or requires
16:36:36 <laudrain> Graham: I’ll try
16:37:04 <Rick_Johnson> q?
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16:37:26 <laudrain> Hadrien: needs some sort of extension point about encryption
16:37:34 <Rick_Johnson> ack hadrien
16:37:39 <laudrain> Font ibfuccation for instance
16:38:01 <laudrain> some standard extension point is need more generic
16:38:04 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:38:11 <laudrain> Ivan agrees
16:38:56 <laudrain> George: Expression in docuement for libraries for docuemnt time out, but just a RS flag
16:39:15 <laudrain> s/docuement/document/
16:39:35 <laudrain> Ivan: in any case, extension point is needed
16:39:41 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:39:57 <laudrain> Rick:any other comment?
16:40:06 <laudrain> Non more comment
16:40:32 <laudrain> Ivan: comment on 24, and Graham on 15, and we will see
16:41:07 <laudrain> Rick: Graham about what « out of scope » means
16:41:25 <laudrain> BiilK : works for me
16:42:08 <liisamk> q?
16:42:29 <laudrain> BillK: an EPUB would be more restrictive tahn WP, but DRM comes from the supply chain, not publishers
16:42:58 <laudrain> Grahama: the requirement to do so may come from the publisher
16:43:12 <laudrain> s/Grahama/Graham/
16:43:58 <laudrain> Ivan: issue 36, closed, comments from Murata Makto for more explanation
16:44:22 <laudrain> Issue reopen with an answer
16:44:39 <laudrain> Please look and comment if necessary
16:45:09 <laudrain> Issue about latinreq still open
16:45:29 <laudrain> Does anyone can look at it?
16:45:38 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:45:56 <laudrain> somebody has a right reference for BFF?
16:46:08 <laudrain> Hadrien, :
16:46:22 <laudrain> nothing stable, asides from Dave repo
16:46:36 <laudrain> wait for Dave
16:46:53 <laudrain> Ivan: to be modified later
16:47:15 <laudrain> Rick: abpout the external docuement?
16:47:24 <laudrain> Ivan: organization of the BG
16:47:52 <laudrain> a docuement why EPUB4 is necessary
16:48:01 <Rick_Johnson> q+
16:48:18 <laudrain> This document from BillK it is referenced in the charter
16:48:43 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:48:54 <laudrain> It is not part of the charter. There should be an area on the WWW for taht doc to be hosted
16:49:25 <laudrain> Create a separate github repository for that kind of document?
16:49:41 <laudrain> happy to setup that repository
16:50:09 <laudrain> Rick: as BG move forward, there may be more doc that need a home
16:50:18 <liisamk> q+
16:50:40 <George> George agrees with a github rpo
16:50:42 <ivan> ack Rick_Johnson
16:50:45 <ivan> ack liisamk
16:50:47 <laudrain> Liisa: another repository would be fine for doc that group may produce
16:50:52 <pbelfanti> +1 to stated comments
16:50:53 <laudrain> I agree
16:51:11 <laudrain> Rick: closing the other issues?
16:51:30 <laudrain> Near final charter before living?
16:51:48 <laudrain> Ivan: yes if no other new issue comes
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16:52:26 <michaelbaker> I have not been able to get the MS it on the calendar yet.
16:52:32 <laudrain> contact with people at Apple, and Garth from Google : may come later
16:52:46 <George> q+
16:52:52 <laudrain> Rick: we are on the time line
16:53:23 <ivan> ack George
16:53:26 <laudrain> George: with Apple, I would need to know what is the proper approach?
16:53:57 <laudrain> Ivan: to ask them to review the charter, if they can live with it or they see any problem
16:54:15 <laudrain> It’s better to hear now if they have any issue
16:54:43 <laudrain> we have 3-4 weeks to handle issues
16:54:47 <michaelbaker> q+
16:55:08 <laudrain> Action: George to join Apple people
16:55:32 <laudrain> Michael: what is the procedure?
16:55:47 <laudrain> Ivan: do the samle as I told George
16:56:08 <laudrain> We would deal with a call if needed
16:56:23 <laudrain> Michael: I will share the charter
16:56:32 <Rick_Johnson> q?
16:56:35 <Rick_Johnson> ack mich
16:56:45 <laudrain> Action: Michael to share the charter with MS
16:57:31 <laudrain> Ivan: practicla thing : member of the Steering Committe send their github account bt mail
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16:57:55 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:57:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/28-pbg-minutes.html ivan
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16:58:14 <ivan> zakim, bye
16:58:14 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been ivan, Rick_Johnson, Avneesh, George, mateus-teixeira, Luc, mattg, Bill_Kasdorf, pbelfanti
16:58:14 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbg
16:58:21 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
16:58:21 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/28-pbg-actions.rdf :
16:58:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: George to join Apple people [1]
16:58:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/28-pbg-irc#T16-55-08
16:58:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to share the charter with MS [2]
16:58:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/28-pbg-irc#T16-56-45