15:40:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
15:40:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-dpub-irc
15:40:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:40:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
15:40:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:40:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:40:47 <trackbot> Date: 20 March 2017
15:40:49 <ivan> Chair: Garth
15:41:20 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2017Mar/0022.html
15:41:39 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda for 2017-03-20: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2017Mar/0022.html
15:47:08 <ivan> Regrets: Heather, Charles, Romain, BillM
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15:55:41 <George> present+ George
15:56:10 <Rick_Johnson> Rick_Johnson has joined #dpub
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15:57:07 <ivan> present+ ivan
15:57:09 <Rick_Johnson> present+ Rick_Johnson
15:57:10 <mteixeira-wwn> mteixeira-wwn has joined #dpub
15:57:27 <leonardr> leonardr has joined #dpub
15:57:28 <Rick_Johnson> is this working?
15:57:35 <Avneesh> present+ Avneesh
15:57:43 <leonardr> Present+ Leonard
15:57:48 <leonardr> (Calling from India)
15:57:51 <Rick_Johnson> yes, IRC only... currently at 37,000 feet over Oklahoma
15:58:35 <dkaplan3> present+ Deborah_Kaplan
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15:59:05 <dauwhe> present+ dauwhe
16:00:01 <mteixeira-wwn> present+ mateus-teixeira
16:00:24 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #dpub
16:00:25 <pkra> present+ Peter Krautzberger.
16:00:32 <garth> garth has joined #dpub
16:00:40 <laudrain> present+ Luc
16:00:47 <garth> present+ Garth
16:01:08 <astearns> present+
16:01:33 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
16:01:47 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+ Bill_Kasdorf
16:02:13 <david_stroup> david_stroup has joined #dpub
16:03:41 <cbogen> cbogen has joined #dpub
16:03:50 <Vlad> present+
16:04:05 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
16:04:15 <dauwhe> garth: I sent an update to the agenda, correcting the minutes URL
16:04:38 <dauwhe> garth: minutes approved
16:04:53 <mattg> present+ mattg
16:05:08 <ivan> present+ cbogen
16:05:10 <Hadrien> Hadrien has joined #dpub
16:05:13 <dauwhe> cbogen: I am project metadata for content metadata at Pearson
16:05:33 <garth> Welcome Carly!
16:05:35 <dauwhe> ... I came from OCLC where I worked on Library software
16:05:36 <ivan> i/cbogen/Topic: new member intro/
16:06:15 <dauwhe> garth: We also have another new member from Apex, but I don't think he's on the call
16:06:40 <dauwhe> ... some of us were in Brussels or London last week
16:06:43 <ivan> Topic: EPUB SUmmit, DPBG F2F
16:07:10 <dauwhe> ... EPUB Summit was much larger than the first one in Bordeaux
16:07:15 <dauwhe> ... maybe 150 attendees
16:07:28 <dauwhe> ... lots of talk about how epub is used
16:07:33 <ivan> present+ rkwright
16:07:36 <dauwhe> ... including corporate use
16:07:51 <dauwhe> ... like the euro publications office, which had a low adoption rate
16:07:59 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:07:59 <Zakim> Present: George, ivan, Rick_Johnson, Avneesh, Leonard, Deborah_Kaplan, dauwhe, mateus-teixeira, Peter, Krautzberger., Luc, Garth, astearns, Bill_Kasdorf, Vlad, mattg, cbogen,
16:08:00 <dauwhe> ... there was a demo of Readium LCP
16:08:03 <Zakim> ... rkwright
16:08:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see Hadrien, cbogen, david_stroup, Bill_Kasdorf, garth, Vlad, laudrain, leonardr, mteixeira-wwn, Avneesh, Rick_Johnson, George, rkwright, pkra, dkaplan3, Zakim, RRSAgent,
16:08:03 <Zakim> ... darobin_, mattg, ivan, Karen, dauwhe, plinss, rego, liam, Bert, trackbot, iank_, bigbluehat, astearns, JakeA
16:08:07 <garth> Q?
16:08:25 <brady_duga> brady_duga has joined #dpub
16:08:30 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: note that the "L"  in LCP is licensed rather than lightweight
16:08:32 <brady_duga> present+ duga
16:08:39 <dauwhe> George: Laurent posted some blog posts about the event
16:09:11 <dauwhe> garth: there was in interesting preso on using EPUB as an archival format
16:09:16 <garth> q?
16:09:33 <dauwhe> George: Avneesh presented on conformance to the epub a11y spec
16:09:54 <dauwhe> garth: then we went to London to meet at the News Building
16:10:03 <dauwhe> ... this was the Publishing Business Group
16:10:18 <Karen> +1 HarperCollins UK host and VitalSource sponsor of Publishing Business Group meeting
16:10:31 <dauwhe> ... minutes are in the agenda
16:10:45 <dauwhe> ... we made progress on the Publishing Working Group charter
16:11:44 <dauwhe> ... the other two issues were EPUB4 and how it fit with WP and the charter
16:12:09 <leonardr> Thinks that WG name is a bad idea...but so be it...
16:12:28 <dauwhe> ... [quotes from charter draft]
16:13:08 <ivan> q+
16:13:10 <dauwhe> ... the other issue was what to say about DRM
16:13:26 <dauwhe> ... the changed text is a parenthetical
16:13:39 <dauwhe> ... [quotes from charter draft]
16:13:55 <dauwhe> ... so it's like EPUB, you can have hooks for DRM but no specification about DRM
16:14:12 <garth> q?
16:14:14 <dauwhe> ... there's new language about liaising to the BG and the CG
16:14:39 <laurentlemeur> laurentlemeur has joined #dpub
16:14:46 <dauwhe> ivan: there was an issue from Jeff that we need a business justification for EPUB4
16:15:03 <dauwhe> ... Bill_Kasdorf created a document, which we are referencing from the charter
16:15:16 <dauwhe> ... we seem to have agreement on the text in the charter about this
16:15:23 <garth> q?
16:15:23 <dauwhe> ... as for the current status
16:15:25 <garth> ack ivan
16:15:47 <dauwhe> ... all these issues have been folded into the charter text, except for the DRM one
16:16:05 <dauwhe> ... which remains as a separate PR, pending the response of the original creator of the issue
16:16:16 <dauwhe> garth: it's not a huge change
16:16:28 <dauwhe> ivan: my feeling is that he will not be overly happy with the solution
16:16:42 <garth> q?
16:16:57 <dauwhe> ... the only open issue left (apart from timeline) is there's going to be an editorial overview from BISG and Liisa
16:17:06 <dauwhe> ... we did get some editorial comments
16:17:27 <dauwhe> ... once that's done, we can create an abstract for the mission statement at the top of the charter
16:17:31 <garth> q?
16:17:32 <dauwhe> garth: that sounds good
16:17:37 <dauwhe> ... we made good progress in London
16:18:09 <dauwhe> ... my view is that the interest group will wind down as we ramp up the working group
16:18:16 <dauwhe> ... the IG charter expires in October
16:18:22 <dauwhe> ... so I think we should just let it expire
16:18:35 <dauwhe> ... so do all the things happening in the IG have homes?
16:18:56 <dauwhe> ... issues: liasing with CSSWG, and the ARIA accessibility work
16:19:13 <dauwhe> ... we do have text in the charter that moves primary a11y work to the WG
16:19:31 <garth> q?
16:19:34 <dauwhe> ... I do want to talk about the current CSS work; I'd suggest we stay the course and do it in the WG
16:19:53 <dauwhe> ... before we get to that, what we're looking for is what IG stuff is not already assigned
16:19:57 <garth> q?
16:20:43 <ivan> q+
16:21:30 <dauwhe> dauwhe: Perhaps latinreq and other things can move forward as non-rec-track docs in the WG
16:21:35 <garth> q?
16:21:37 <dauwhe> ivan: yes, perhaps we can add a note to the charter
16:21:39 <garth> ack ivan
16:22:07 <dauwhe> dauwhe: I'll try to come up with language for adding latinreq to charter
16:22:14 <dauwhe> garth: sounds like we'll stay the course
16:22:29 <dauwhe> ... any other items we need to migrate?
16:22:34 <leonardr> Q+
16:22:46 <garth> q?
16:22:49 <dauwhe> ... that could be pushed to BG/CG/WG?
16:22:53 <dauwhe> leonardr: I have a question
16:22:58 <George> WCAG 2.1 and 3.0 are in scope
16:23:00 <dauwhe> ... the use cases doc--what happens to that?
16:23:06 <dauwhe> ... it's not called out in the charter
16:23:20 <dauwhe> ivan: it is called out in the sense that there is a use case document
16:23:29 <dauwhe> ... the IG should make a final stamp on it
16:23:33 <leonardr> Ah, see it now under 3.2 as an optional!
16:23:39 <dauwhe> ... and to the PWP draft, as interest group notes
16:23:44 <dauwhe> ... to show it's done
16:23:58 <garth> q?
16:24:03 <dauwhe> ... if the WG feels it needs a continuation, than it can be picked up there on non-rec-track
16:24:03 <garth> ack leo
16:24:09 <dauwhe> garth: that sounds good
16:24:14 <ivan> Topic: timeline
16:24:27 <dauwhe> ... the next topic is #6 on the agenda
16:24:42 <dauwhe> ... the milestones of spec creation for the WG
16:24:45 <ivan> q+
16:24:46 <garth> q?
16:24:46 <dauwhe> ... Ivan did a draft
16:25:01 <dauwhe> ... it looks good to me, but folks should take a look
16:25:09 <dauwhe> ... FPWD in Q4 2017
16:25:16 <dauwhe> ... REC in Q4 2019
16:25:18 <leonardr> Q+
16:25:33 <dauwhe> ... is this insane or reasonable?
16:25:49 <garth> q?
16:25:52 <dauwhe> ivan: just to clarify
16:25:57 <garth> ack ivan
16:26:10 <dauwhe> ... FPWD--first public working draft--it's our first stake in the ground
16:26:24 <dauwhe> ... it's an important milestone for IPR
16:26:49 <dauwhe> ... the CR means candidate rec, which means the group decides consider the technical design as done
16:27:03 <garth> q?
16:27:08 <dauwhe> ... between CR and REC there is testing, implementations, and AC review
16:27:21 <dauwhe> ... so they may be iteration of the CR, if testing reveals problems
16:27:37 <dauwhe> ivan: I made a pessimistic timeline
16:27:42 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:27:58 <dauwhe> ... and left a long time between CR and REC, because testing and implementation will be long and tedious
16:28:11 <dauwhe> ... it's really important to show interop among reading systems or browser extensions
16:28:21 <dauwhe> ... so that's why there's a year for the CR phase
16:28:37 <garth> q?
16:28:38 <dauwhe> ... if we finish earlier, then everyone will be happy and get brownie points
16:29:00 <dauwhe> ... it's a draft I came up with in an afternoon, and it may be flawed ;)
16:29:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
16:29:10 <garth> ack leo
16:29:11 <dauwhe> leonardr: in general I think it's reasonable and realistic
16:29:16 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
16:29:30 <dauwhe> ...my only comment is that FPWDs are going to be pushing it on timing
16:29:33 <ivan> q+
16:29:41 <dauwhe> ... that's the only thing I might shift to later
16:29:50 <dauwhe> ivan: one comment there, to be clear
16:29:59 <dauwhe> ... FPWD is a stake in the ground
16:30:11 <garth> q?
16:30:15 <garth> ack ivan
16:30:22 <dauwhe> ... the FPWD might say, for example, we need a manifest which includes metadata, but doesn't say what metadata
16:30:35 <astearns> An FPWD can be filled with issues describing what needs to be done
16:30:40 <dauwhe> ... some FPWDs have sections which are unfinished/unstarted
16:30:58 <garth> q?
16:31:00 <leonardr> Thanks @astearns
16:31:10 <dauwhe> ... just getting our thoughts organized on what should be done, so I think the end of the year is OK
16:31:29 <dauwhe> garth: that seems OK, but I'm the optimistic one ;)
16:31:31 <garth> q?
16:31:51 <dauwhe> garth: barring disagreement on that, that was one of the remaining holes in the draft charter
16:32:07 <dauwhe> ... the next agenda item is open issues... are there any of these that we want to discuss?
16:32:19 <ivan> Topic: issues leftover
16:32:23 <dauwhe> ... the big one was the EPUB4 motivation, which is in the BG
16:32:24 <ivan> q+
16:32:28 <dauwhe> ... the rest seem editorial
16:32:37 <leonardr> Q+
16:32:38 <dauwhe> ... should we talk about any of these now?
16:32:41 <garth> q?
16:32:51 <dauwhe> ivan: I think you're right that it's mostly editiorial
16:32:59 <dauwhe> ... but the issues may be serious
16:33:08 <dauwhe> ... I'd like to get input from BISG as soon as possible
16:33:24 <dauwhe> garth: Brian O'Leary picked up that action item
16:33:48 <dauwhe> ivan: I've asked the W3C team for horizontal review... we already have some i18n feedback
16:33:54 <garth> q?
16:33:56 <garth> ack ivan
16:33:59 <dauwhe> ... I have a call tomorrow about security issues
16:34:00 <ivan> q-
16:34:02 <Avneesh> q+
16:34:19 <dauwhe> leonardr: can we come to agreement to not act on issue 24?
16:34:44 <dauwhe> ... that rewrites all the terminology we've used
16:35:08 <ivan> ack leonardr
16:35:21 <dauwhe> ivan: I think we need some feedback from Brian
16:35:42 <dauwhe> ... what you said you should put in a comment for that issue
16:35:48 <leonardr> Happy to comment on the issue
16:36:12 <dauwhe> Action: leonardr to respond to charter issue 24
16:36:12 <trackbot> Error finding 'leonardr'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
16:36:19 <garth> q?
16:36:25 <dauwhe> Avneesh: this is already in the agenda
16:36:32 <dauwhe> ... the a11y text that has been added
16:36:43 <dauwhe> ... we do not have agreement from all the people yet
16:36:59 <leonardr> Q+
16:37:07 <dauwhe> ... we also think that the a11y text should be integrated into the bullet points
16:37:08 <ivan> ack Avneesh
16:37:21 <dauwhe> ... The group will meet this thursday to discuss
16:37:31 <leonardr> Q+
16:37:38 <ivan> ack leonardr
16:37:40 <dauwhe> garth: I thought some of the a11y text was moved on purpose
16:37:42 <dkaplan3> q+
16:37:46 <dauwhe> leonardr: it was agreed on the mailing list
16:37:53 <dauwhe> Avneesh: I don't think everyone agreed
16:38:02 <dauwhe> dkaplan3: we agreed to look at it and investigage
16:38:04 <leonardr> Gotcha on the difference
16:38:10 <ivan> q+
16:38:22 <dauwhe> garth: that was pulled into the most recent draft. true?
16:38:24 <ivan> ack dkaplan3
16:38:24 <dauwhe> ivan: yes
16:38:33 <ivan> ack dkaplan
16:38:42 <dauwhe> garth: It was agreed by this group, but not the task force
16:38:58 <dkaplan3> q-
16:39:00 <dauwhe> dkaplan3: no, the agreement in this group was we'd put it in a branch and then the task force would look
16:39:16 <dauwhe> garth: we did have discussion in this group, and there was general consenus on one of the changes
16:39:23 <dauwhe> ... is it rolled into the current draft?
16:39:38 <dauwhe> ivan: my recollection is that we agreed on that on a call, and then it has been rolled into the docuemtn
16:39:48 <dauwhe> ... and then in the short email discussion...
16:40:02 <dauwhe> ... we have to be careful... today I would prefer not to touch it
16:40:10 <dauwhe> ... there was also an i18n review
16:40:33 <George> George needs to leave IRC
16:40:33 <dauwhe> ... and so this text became more general, adding i18n as another fundamental principle
16:40:39 <dauwhe> ... so moving that text might be complicated
16:40:46 <dauwhe> ... my feeling is we should leave it as is
16:40:50 <dauwhe> ... we can discuss on email
16:41:03 <dauwhe> garth: I'm blind. Can someone point me to the section in the draft charter?
16:41:12 <dauwhe> leonardr: it's the last para of section 2, scope
16:41:15 <dauwhe> garth: fair enough
16:41:45 <dauwhe> ... it sounds like there'll be a discussion of the task force, and hopefully we can find agreement
16:41:49 <garth> q?
16:41:55 <ivan> q-
16:41:57 <garth> ack ivan
16:42:09 <dauwhe> Avneesh: when are we expecting to publish?
16:42:20 <dauwhe> garth: the current top of tree has this language
16:42:34 <dauwhe> ... along with most everything else we've agreed on over the last week
16:42:50 <dauwhe> ... and we now have an agenda item on how to get this to finished for AC review
16:43:05 <dauwhe> Avneesh: could you please wait for the a11y task force to review?
16:43:22 <dauwhe> ivan: there's a master branch; there are pending PRs on the timeline, etc.
16:43:28 <dauwhe> ... tomorrow, there will be more merge
16:43:33 <darobin> darobin has joined #dpub
16:43:36 <dauwhe> ... what's on the master branch is it
16:43:48 <dauwhe> Avneesh: I want people to review, and if changes are needed that's fine
16:44:01 <dauwhe> garth: if there need to be changes, we can discuss in the coming days
16:44:14 <dauwhe> ... we can open up again if needed
16:44:24 <dauwhe> topic: first F2F
16:44:24 <ivan> topic: f2f meeting
16:44:31 <dauwhe> ... we need to nail this down
16:44:38 <dauwhe> ... we've abandoned hope on June 5-6
16:44:44 <dauwhe> ... and are hopeful on June 22-23
16:45:06 <dauwhe> ... timing depends on AC vote
16:45:35 <dauwhe> ... We want charter finalized before AC meeting April 23-25; that works timewise for late june F2F
16:45:53 <dauwhe> ... there is a DAISY meeting the following week in the Netherlands
16:46:27 <laudrain> q+
16:46:32 <garth> q?
16:46:39 <dauwhe> ... Hopefully we can do NYC
16:46:55 <dauwhe> laudrain: there was also an idea to have the F2F in Paris, 25-26th
16:47:13 <dauwhe> garth: that conflicts with DAISY meetings in the Netherlands
16:47:20 <leonardr> Q+
16:47:22 <Avneesh> q+
16:47:24 <dauwhe> laudrain: Hachette could host at the beginning of that week
16:47:25 <ivan> ack laudrain
16:47:27 <garth> ack lau
16:47:37 <dauwhe> leonardr: when are daisy meetings? Monday-Tuesday?
16:47:42 <garth> ack leo
16:47:54 <dauwhe> Avneesh: It's Monday-Thursday
16:48:20 <pkra> have to drop off early, I'm afraid.
16:48:25 <garth> q?
16:48:25 <pkra> pkra has left #dpub
16:48:26 <dauwhe> ... one more comment... EDRLab can co-host
16:48:32 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:48:32 <Zakim> Present: George, ivan, Rick_Johnson, Avneesh, Leonard, Deborah_Kaplan, dauwhe, mateus-teixeira, Peter, Krautzberger., Luc, Garth, astearns, Bill_Kasdorf, Vlad, mattg, cbogen,
16:48:36 <dauwhe> laurentlemeur: we could host, but we could go to NYC
16:48:36 <Zakim> ... rkwright, duga
16:48:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see darobin, laurentlemeur, brady_duga, Hadrien, cbogen, david_stroup, Bill_Kasdorf, garth, laudrain, leonardr, mteixeira-wwn, Avneesh, rkwright, dkaplan3, Zakim,
16:48:36 <Zakim> ... RRSAgent, darobin_, mattg, ivan, Karen, dauwhe, plinss, rego, liam, Bert, trackbot, iank_, bigbluehat, astearns, JakeA
16:48:47 <ivan> present+ lauent
16:49:07 <leonardr> I have to double check the dates, but I would expect so - yes
16:49:08 <ivan> s/lauent/laurent/
16:49:18 <dauwhe> garth: Adobe can host in NYC, and we can get Tzviya, and we just did a series of meetings in Europe
16:49:25 <dauwhe> ... I lean towards New York
16:49:27 <laudrain> q+
16:49:40 <garth> q?
16:49:49 <dauwhe> ???: I don't know if this group has met outside the US outside of TPAC
16:49:57 <ivan> s/???/brady/
16:49:58 <dauwhe> garth: we should do a doodle poll for counts
16:49:59 <ivan> ack Avneesh
16:50:04 <garth> ack Ave
16:50:07 <dkaplan3> many of us met in NYC several yeats ago
16:50:15 <ivan> ack laudrain
16:50:27 <dauwhe> laudrain: I can't do June 22-23 anyway
16:50:45 <dauwhe> [discussion of French accents]
16:50:52 <dauwhe> garth: Ivan and I will discuss
16:51:13 <dauwhe> ... we'll get a poll for attendees, if not locations
16:51:15 <garth> q?
16:51:28 <dauwhe> ivan: the best thing is to have a poll which includes a reference to location
16:51:43 <Karen> +1 poll
16:51:52 <dauwhe> ... does the google form allow both time and location choices?
16:52:05 <dauwhe> ivan: let's do date and place poll, and see where we are
16:52:06 <laudrain> +1
16:52:38 <dauwhe> Action: garth do do poll for meeting time and location
16:52:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-67 - Do do poll for meeting time and location [on Garth Conboy - due 2017-03-27].
16:52:55 <ivan> present+ karen
16:52:57 <garth> q?
16:53:35 <dauwhe> garth: thanks everyone. We'll have a decision on whether there will be a call next week soon.
16:53:50 <laudrain> laudrain has left #dpub
16:54:02 <laurentlemeur> laurentlemeur has left #dpub
16:56:28 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:56:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-dpub-minutes.html ivan
16:57:11 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
16:57:11 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:57:11 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been George, ivan, Rick_Johnson, Avneesh, Leonard, Deborah_Kaplan, dauwhe, mateus-teixeira, Peter, Krautzberger., Luc, Garth, astearns,
16:57:14 <Zakim> ... Bill_Kasdorf, Vlad, mattg, cbogen, rkwright, duga, lauent, karen
16:57:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:57:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
16:57:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-dpub-actions.rdf :
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: leonardr to respond to charter issue 24 [1]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-dpub-irc#T16-36-12
16:57:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: garth do do poll for meeting time and location [2]
16:57:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-dpub-irc#T16-52-38