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17:01:41 <jamesn> meeting: ARIA APG TF
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17:04:07 <MichielBijl> scribe: MichielBijl
17:04:15 <mck> present+ matt_king
17:04:20 <MichielBijl> present+
17:04:34 <jemma> present+ JaeunJemmaku
17:04:58 <MichielBijl> topic: Walk through issues and identify blocking actions.
17:06:54 <sirib> present+ ShirishaBalusani
17:07:59 <mck> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22Jan+2017+Clean+Up%22+sort%3Aupdated-desc
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17:08:41 <MichielBijl> MK: We’re done with button, will close it
17:08:51 <MichielBijl> Related issue: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/316
17:08:52 <jamesn> present+ JamesNurthen
17:09:41 <MichielBijl> MK: Will add reasoning to the commit
17:09:50 <MichielBijl> MK: Next up Modal Dialog
17:11:01 <MichielBijl> Any accessibility issue?
17:11:18 <MichielBijl> MB: No accessibility issues, just aesthetics.
17:11:24 <jamesn> q+ jemma
17:11:39 <jamesn> ack jemma
17:11:55 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/321
17:12:42 <MichielBijl> MK: terracoda is working on the inputs overflowing, after that you can work on design
17:12:45 <MichielBijl> MB: Understood
17:13:33 <MichielBijl> MK: Would be good to have this done before the next heartbeat
17:13:48 <MichielBijl> MB: I’ll be able to do the design and the reviews this week, but see more people on the list
17:14:02 <MichielBijl> Related issue: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/325
17:14:15 <MichielBijl> JN: Haven’t looked at the code, but it’s in the states and properties table
17:14:44 <MichielBijl> MK: Not sure if the spec has a default value for it (aira-dialog)
17:14:51 <MichielBijl> JN: Default is false
17:15:02 <MichielBijl> MK: Isn’t that odd?
17:15:24 <MichielBijl> JN: No, if people made dialogs that they didn’t want to be modal that would change if it was
17:15:49 <MichielBijl> Next up: FAQ disclosure example: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/265
17:15:59 <MichielBijl> MK: Jemma made a comment
17:16:10 <MichielBijl> About using DL / DT | DD
17:16:17 <MichielBijl> Didn’t we close that discussion?
17:16:42 <MichielBijl> We went away from it and came back to it, because DL is a much better fallback than just having a bunch of divs.
17:17:00 <MichielBijl> Semantically it matches up fine
17:17:10 <MichielBijl> So, I’m unclear what you mean by your comment
17:17:25 <MichielBijl> JK: I’m fine with the DL
17:17:36 <MichielBijl> My first reaction was that it was for data table
17:18:20 <MichielBijl> http://w3c.github.io/html/grouping-content.html#the-dl-element
17:18:41 <MichielBijl> MB: DL stands for description list.
17:18:48 <MichielBijl> MK: Okay, so that fits even better now
17:19:07 <MichielBijl> Does anyone see any open issues here?
17:20:32 <MichielBijl> JK: What is the advantage of the DL over a bunch of divs?
17:21:02 <MichielBijl> MK: Has a bunch of advantages, like SRs will announce number of items in the list and you can jump from question to question.
17:21:06 <MichielBijl> JK: Makes sense
17:22:57 <MichielBijl> Next up: Include link to GitHub in introduction
17:23:19 <MichielBijl> MK: Did you read it MB?
17:24:18 <MichielBijl> MB: I glanced over it, looks good, I’ll look at the undocumented feature
17:24:40 <MichielBijl> Next up: alert example page
17:24:42 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/291
17:26:06 <MichielBijl> MB: I fixed the issue James mentioned
17:26:22 <MichielBijl> Think Paul’s comment is interesting, but for next release
17:26:28 <MichielBijl> MK: Filed new issue, for 1.2
17:26:47 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/327
17:27:18 <MichielBijl> MK: Closing issue 291
17:27:36 <MichielBijl> Next up: Editor Menu Bar Example
17:27:42 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/324
17:27:48 <MichielBijl> MK: Thank you very much Jon
17:27:56 <MichielBijl> JG: Do we care about mouse behaviour?
17:27:59 <MichielBijl> MK: Of course!
17:28:33 <MichielBijl> JG: When you click on a menu they stay open
17:28:52 <MichielBijl> JN: That’s not default on Windows
17:29:19 <MichielBijl> MK: Why is it different for spacebar?
17:29:30 <MichielBijl> JN: Oh, on Windows spacebar doesn’t even activate them
17:29:50 <MichielBijl> MK: Oh, Ggeat!
17:29:58 <MichielBijl> s/Ggeat/great/
17:30:08 <MichielBijl> Seems user-unfriendly.
17:34:27 <MichielBijl> MK: Could make spacebar optional
17:34:36 <MichielBijl> JN: That’s a good idea
17:34:44 <MichielBijl> MK: Will raise an issue
17:36:01 <MichielBijl> MB: Jon would you be okay with me re-designing it?
17:36:11 <MichielBijl> JG: Go ahead!
17:38:16 <MichielBijl> JK: What do you mean with make it prettier?
17:38:47 <MichielBijl> MB: Change colours, was thinking of something like the default macOS menu bar
17:38:57 <MichielBijl> JK: Also make it responsive?
17:39:21 <MichielBijl> MB: Not necessarily, would have to look at the code, perhaps for a later version.
17:39:44 <MichielBijl> Next up: menu button
17:39:45 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/326
17:40:31 <MichielBijl> MK: Menu buttons should have aria-expanded on it
17:40:50 <MichielBijl> (suggested by Paul J. Adam).
17:41:26 <MichielBijl> s/should//
17:41:41 <MichielBijl> s/Menu/Should menu/
17:41:55 <MichielBijl> MK: Personally I dislike the extra verbosity
17:42:59 <MichielBijl> There is an issue on iOS when using blur()
17:43:37 <MichielBijl> JN: I don’t see a big use for it, but lean towards it being okay
17:44:22 <MichielBijl> MK: I… we could make it something optional in the pattern
17:44:32 <MichielBijl> If we do that it should be consistent with the behaviour.
17:44:42 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:44:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
17:45:16 <MichielBijl> JN: I think it’s reasonable, it adds some code, but it’s not too hard
17:46:59 <MichielBijl> rrsagent, make log public
17:47:47 <MichielBijl> topic: James’s favourite issue
17:47:53 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/277
17:48:10 <MichielBijl> JN: I need to log an issue against ARIA spec
17:48:24 <MichielBijl> MK: So Chrome is including the old content in the calculation?
17:48:53 <MichielBijl> sg/Next up/topic/
17:49:16 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:49:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
17:49:34 <MichielBijl> MK: I see the logic of making it consistent
17:49:44 <MichielBijl> In most places owned and ?? are the same thing
17:50:13 <MichielBijl> s/??/descendent/
17:50:32 <MichielBijl> s/Next up/topic/g
17:50:35 <MichielBijl> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:50:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
17:50:46 <MichielBijl> JN: They don’t have test cases for this yet
17:51:00 <MichielBijl> MK: Leaves me up in the air
17:51:10 <MichielBijl> When I wrote these patterns
17:51:15 <MichielBijl> I want to get them consistent
17:51:26 <MichielBijl> JN: If you have aria-owns and rely on the children
17:51:37 <MichielBijl> You need aria-label of aria-labelledby to make it consistent
17:51:54 <MichielBijl> MK: You don’t it to be named by all the children
17:52:11 <MichielBijl> In Chrome you’ll need to use label/labelledby
17:52:24 <MichielBijl> Currently our examples don’t use aria-owns
17:52:32 <MichielBijl> I’m not terribly worried about it
17:52:57 <MichielBijl> JN: Why would you want aria-owns to be used as the accessible name calculation?
17:53:06 <MichielBijl> Is there a case where you want that?
17:55:08 <MichielBijl> topic: Review updated example template
17:55:12 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/168
17:55:22 <MichielBijl> MK: Waiting on the table stuff
17:55:39 <MichielBijl> JN: Michiel has a simplification for the CSS
17:55:45 <MichielBijl> MB: Will push that this week
17:55:51 <MichielBijl> MK: Okay, will close the issue
17:56:14 <MichielBijl> topic: Modal dialog design pattern
17:56:15 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/325
17:56:23 <MichielBijl> MK: Do you have any comments Jemma?
17:56:56 <MichielBijl> MK: Can you review this this week MB?
17:56:57 <MichielBijl> MB: Yes
17:57:16 <MichielBijl> MK: James I like your comments
17:58:04 <MichielBijl> Your comment about tabindex=-1
17:58:19 <MichielBijl> That means you can set focus programatically, but its not in the tab order
17:58:26 <MichielBijl> Does that make scrolling harder?
18:00:17 <MichielBijl> MB: Shouldn’t make it harder, it’s a widget on top of the page, not in the page
18:00:33 <MichielBijl> MK: We should make sure our example is scrollable if it doesn’t fit in the viewport
18:02:23 <MichielBijl> JN: Both the dialog and the page scroll
18:03:05 <MichielBijl> MK: I’ll ask terracoda after the call
18:04:06 <MichielBijl> topic: closing thoughts
18:04:20 <MichielBijl> MB: When is the publication?
18:04:26 <MichielBijl> MK: Somewhere during next week
18:04:35 <MichielBijl> Not bound to a certain date
18:05:20 <MichielBijl> We want to get to the point where we have the design patterns done
18:05:26 <MichielBijl> When we get to ARIA 1.1
18:05:38 <jongund> bye
18:05:52 <MichielBijl> JK: Are we including modal dialog?
18:05:54 <MichielBijl> MK: Yes
18:06:24 <jamesn> rrsagent, make log world
18:06:25 <MichielBijl> RRSagent, make minutes
18:06:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
18:08:13 <MichielBijl> chair: MattKing
18:08:17 <MichielBijl> RRSagent, make minutes
18:08:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/20-aria-apg-minutes.html MichielBijl
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