IRC log of sdwbp on 2017-03-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:01:59 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
16:02:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
16:02:01 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be SDW
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ok, trackbot
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Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
16:02:04 [trackbot]
Date: 15 March 2017
16:02:58 [phila]
s/Working/BP Sub/
16:03:18 [ByronCinNZ]
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16:04:28 [jtandy]
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16:04:40 [phila]
regrets+ Andrea
16:04:49 [jtandy]
present+ jtandy
16:05:07 [phila]
regrets+ Clemens, Scott
16:05:11 [phila]
16:05:49 [ByronCinNZ]
present+ ByronCinNZ
16:05:50 [phila]
chair: Lord Tandy
16:06:15 [Linda]
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16:06:41 [MattPerry]
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16:07:12 [MattPerry]
present+ MattPerry
16:07:34 [Linda]
present+ Linda
16:08:02 [phila]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
16:08:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
16:08:08 [tidoust]
16:08:26 [tidoust]
Present+ Francois
16:08:32 [phila]
scribe: phila
16:08:40 [phila]
scribeNick: phila
16:08:49 [phila]
jtandy: I recognise everyone on the IRC and WebEx
16:09:01 [phila]
... Let's deal with the Patent Call
16:09:15 [phila]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:09:31 [phila]
Topic: Approve previous wweek's minutes
16:09:40 [phila]
16:09:43 [Linda]
16:09:49 [ByronCinNZ]
16:09:51 [MattPerry]
16:09:55 [tidoust]
16:10:07 [jtandy]
16:10:13 [phila]
RESOLUTION: Previous week's minutes approved
16:10:32 [phila]
Topic: Cross reference Feb/Mar Sprint plan
16:10:47 [jtandy]
16:11:16 [phila]
jtandy: BP1 - no Josh today. Any e-mail from him?
16:11:18 [phila]
Linda: Nope
16:11:20 [joshlieberman]
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16:11:53 [phila]
[Josh arrives]
16:12:07 [phila]
jtandy: You said you had BP1 under control
16:12:23 [phila]
joshlieberman: I may not have used those terms but I'm working on a branch.
16:12:40 [phila]
jtandy: Will BP1 make it to a PR before tomorrow morning Europe
16:13:05 [phila]
jtandy: Of the 2 you have, BP9 is the priority - we know what to do about BP1, it's 9 that needs more work.
16:13:21 [phila]
... So, will there be a BP1 pull request before tomorrow morning.
16:13:42 [phila]
joshlieberman: I'm working on BP9 but will have something on BP1 before tomorrow
16:13:54 [phila]
Topic: BP 8
16:14:13 [phila]
16:14:40 [phila]
jtandy: In the plenary, we said we could remove BP2 which I think I can now go ahead and remove
16:15:03 [phila]
... There's an open issue about the URN stuff that we need to put in the conclusions. But I think I can delete BP2
16:15:27 [phila]
... Looking at next sprint. I see the open challenges to go into expressing units
16:15:40 [phila]
... Is anyone not happy with deleting BP2 later today?>
16:15:48 [phila]
16:15:57 [jtandy]
16:15:59 [phila]
action: jtandy To remove BP2
16:16:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-287 - Remove bp2 [on Jeremy Tandy - due 2017-03-22].
16:16:16 [ByronCinNZ]
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16:16:25 [phila]
jtandy: back to the detailed planning spring
16:16:30 [phila]
topic: BP8
16:16:40 [phila]
jtandy: Andrea has been very busy and working late
16:16:56 [phila]
... Got another couple of changes to make this evening. Expecting pull request shortly
16:17:03 [phila]
... Looking goof IMO
16:17:08 [phila]
16:17:23 [phila]
Linda: It's becoming a clear BP with useful actionable info
16:17:27 [phila]
Topic: BP10
16:17:50 [phila]
jtandy: I bring people's attention to a note from Bill who says he may be here but wwill be late
16:17:54 [phila]
16:18:11 [phila]
jtandy: He, Linda and I have been chatting about what he's been doing with BP10
16:18:15 [jtandy]
16:18:24 [phila]
jtandy: That's what Bill has beenn doing so far
16:18:30 [joshlieberman]
Re: BP-9 the Guildford example confuses relative and approximate, but I (no londoner) cannot figure out the location being referenced. Help?
16:18:40 [phila]
... There are some significant updates there.
16:18:50 [phila]
... There will be a continuation of BP10 in the next sprint
16:19:09 [billroberts]
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16:19:10 [phila]
... Introduction of the same place as a property - TBD in Delft
16:19:14 [phila]
Topic: BP14
16:19:32 [AndreaPerego]
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16:19:43 [phila]
jtandy: Linda has pointed out that there have been so many updates it's now about 3 BPs. Lots to talk about in Delft.
16:19:52 [phila]
... We'll be talking about how to put things in the right order.
16:19:56 [phila]
Topic: BP16
16:20:03 [billroberts]
present+ billroberts
16:20:04 [phila]
jtandy: This will be merged with BP10
16:20:16 [billroberts]
16:20:45 [AndreaPerego]
present+ AndreaPerego
16:20:51 [phila]
billroberts: Yes, I am aiming to submit a pull request this evening for a half decent attempt at BP10
16:20:55 [phila]
ack b
16:21:07 [phila]
billroberts: That will mean deleting BP16 and leaving a place holder
16:21:13 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:21:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate AndreaPerego
16:21:43 [jtandy]
16:21:44 [phila]
jtandy: As you're here, AndreaPerego - we note that BP8 is looking a lot better than before. Are you expecting to put in a new PR?
16:21:54 [phila]
AndreaPerego: It depends on the timing.
16:22:01 [phila]
... When do we freeze?
16:22:11 [phila]
jtandy: Can you, Linda, merge any PRs tomorrow morning
16:22:31 [phila]
action: Linda to merge outstanding pull requests, Thursday 16th a.m.
16:22:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-288 - Merge outstanding pull requests, thursday 16th a.m. [on Linda van den Brink - due 2017-03-22].
16:22:54 [phila]
jtandy: 07:00 UTC is the target time
16:23:12 [phila]
AndreaPerego: The points that are still open still require some consideration
16:23:18 [phila]
... Not sure if it will be done by tomorrow
16:23:35 [phila]
jtandy: IIRC, there are some small changes. Others that need more, I'm content that they continue into the next sprint
16:23:41 [jtandy]
16:23:43 [phila]
AndreaPerego: Small changes, no problem
16:24:22 [phila]
jtandy: After the merge, can you send an e-mail to the list to say the doc is frozen ahead of a vote on Monday
16:24:34 [phila]
Linda: Anything else, like the status section?
16:24:39 [AndreaPerego]
regrets- Andrea
16:24:41 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:24:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate AndreaPerego
16:24:43 [phila]
jtandy: That can be done Monday onwards
16:25:16 [AndreaPerego]
regrets+ Lars
16:25:18 [AndreaPerego]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:25:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate AndreaPerego
16:25:31 [phila]
topic: BP11 access adn APIs
16:25:38 [phila]
jtandy: Clemens has done
16:25:44 [phila]
... More on CRS has been done and is stable
16:25:54 [phila]
... Byron you made some inroads into ??
16:26:26 [phila]
ByronCinNZ: I'm happy with that's been happening
16:26:32 [phila]
jtandy: So 3 and 17 are good.
16:26:35 [phila]
Topic: BP6
16:26:46 [phila]
Linda: I just changed the title a little and added two examples
16:26:57 [phila]
... One is of changing municipality boundaries
16:27:08 [phila]
... the other is about Alps
16:27:28 [phila]
... for the rest, I think BP6 is done.
16:27:40 [phila]
Topic: Editorial
16:27:55 [phila]
jtandy: We're leaving stubs in the doc to retain numbering
16:28:15 [phila]
... Ed has put some stuff into the CRS introductory material about engineering practice
16:28:19 [phila]
Topic: BP9
16:28:56 [phila]
joshlieberman: I don't have it to show you, but I'm going to introduce perspectives from AR to discuss relative to a stationary, moving object anda perspective
16:29:01 [phila]
... Those are the three things
16:29:31 [phila]
joshlieberman: There's an example at the beginning of the doc about Guildford and London Bridge which I find confusing.
16:29:40 [phila]
jtandy: Go for different examples - that'll be easier.
16:29:55 [phila]
jtandy: There's not a lot of stuff in BP9 to date. I think the floor is yours.
16:30:02 [phila]
RRSAgent, draft moinutes v2
16:30:02 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft moinutes v2', phila. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:30:05 [phila]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
16:30:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
16:30:31 [phila]
jtandy: We're expecting a PR this evening
16:30:33 [phila]
joshlieberman: Yes
16:30:40 [phila]
Topic: BP2
16:30:49 [phila]
jtandy: I havea an action to do that, which will be there for you to merge tomorrow
16:30:55 [phila]
Topic: BP15
16:31:02 [phila]
jtandy: That one has gone, as have 12 and 13
16:31:19 [phila]
Topic: Section 14
16:31:28 [phila]
jtandy: Plan says that was for you to remove Linda.
16:31:38 [phila]
Linda: I can do it tomorrow before the merges
16:31:54 [phila]
jtandy: TNhe material won't go away, it'll be in GH, but that should just work.
16:31:59 [phila]
Linda: Should I leave a stub?
16:32:05 [phila]
jtandy: I don't think so.
16:32:15 [phila]
... I left a stub for appendix B but thgat's all
16:32:22 [phila]
topic: Section 13
16:32:49 [phila]
jtandy: Talks about other BPs. We'll leave this as it is. It's for BPs that haven't bene put in place yet
16:32:54 [phila]
... So that can stay
16:32:57 [phila]
Linda: OK
16:33:13 [AndreaPerego]
16:33:15 [phila]
jtandy: We'll get rid of the section on the next sprint.
16:33:29 [phila]
jtandy: Linda has handled the ReSpec 'errors'
16:33:45 [phila]
jtandy: So we're looking health for this sprint - thank you.
16:33:50 [phila]
16:34:00 [phila]
Linda: I think it's the best sprint yet
16:34:05 [AndreaPerego]
q+ to talk about two missing things in BP8
16:34:09 [phila]
jtandy: we're getting faster at the end of the marathon
16:34:23 [phila]
jtandy: BP8 and 10 will have work in the next sprint
16:34:25 [phila]
ack a
16:34:25 [Zakim]
AndreaPerego, you wanted to talk about two missing things in BP8
16:34:26 [jtandy]
16:34:41 [phila]
AndreaPerego: Just to say... 2 things missing from BP8 - comments by Clemens and Josh in the calls.
16:35:08 [phila]
... There wasn't time to do this, but I'd appreciate time from them both to see if what I've doine is OK, if not, what else needs to be done
16:35:32 [phila]
jtandy: This is, I think, about not using a literal on its own, but wrapping it inside a geometry object
16:35:44 [phila]
joshlieberman: Yes, distinguish position from geometry
16:35:56 [phila]
... Better to have a geometry that has accessible properties
16:36:20 [phila]
jtandy: So Josh can you pls talk to Andrea offline - this won't make this sprint
16:36:27 [phila]
AndreaPerego: I'd like to include what I can
16:36:32 [phila]
joshlieberman: Should we insert an issue?
16:36:45 [phila]
jtandy: Andrea feel free to if you want to
16:37:02 [phila]
AndreaPerego: We can do it via the mailing list. For tracking purposes I guess it's better, so I'll do that.
16:37:08 [jtandy]
In our calls, Josh mentioned that "best practice" is that where geometry literals are used (e.g. WKT, GML etc.) you should that wrap these in _geometry objects_ that provide a little metadata about that geometry; e.g. dimensionality, CRS etc. This avoids having to load another parser to determine if the geometry is useful. GML does this to some degree in the @attributes srsName, srsDimension, axisLabels etc. I think Josh was referring to similar constructs
16:37:08 [jtandy]
such as GeoSPARQL's geosparql:Geometry class which may have the following attributes: geo:dimension, geo:coordinateDimension, geo:spatialDimension, geo:isEmpty, geo:isSimple, geo:hasSerialization
16:37:14 [phila]
jtandy: I'll insert the text I gave you as feedback
16:37:39 [phila]
s/I'll insert/I just inserted/
16:37:54 [phila]
AndreaPerego: We have a placeholder at the end of BP8
16:37:57 [phila]
jtandy: Yes
16:38:05 [phila]
joshlieberman: I'll compose an e-mail that we can work from
16:38:08 [phila]
jtandy: Thank you Andrea
16:38:18 [AndreaPerego]
16:38:21 [phila]
Topic: Agenda planning for F2F
16:38:31 [phila]
jtandy: For those on the call...
16:38:40 [phila]
... Who will be there?
16:38:43 [billroberts]
Tuesday only
16:38:57 [AndreaPerego]
I'll be there., but have to leave at 5PM on Tue.
16:38:57 [joshlieberman]
josh will be present, but in and out due to other sessions.
16:39:11 [phila]
-> Attending F2F
16:39:14 [AndreaPerego]
16:39:48 [phila]
phila: I've not heard whether Simon is or isn't going to be there
16:39:50 [phila]
Linda: I guess not
16:40:02 [jtandy]
16:40:03 [phila]
jtandy: The meeting page...
16:40:21 [phila]
jtandy: You'll see that we have a draft agenda which is a list of topics.
16:40:32 [phila]
... SSN have the first 90 minutes, then we take a generous break
16:40:44 [phila]
... and we start the BP work and go to the end of the day.
16:41:03 [phila]
jtandy: Wwhat I propose is that on the day, we shuffle those into the right order
16:41:08 [phila]
16:41:40 [phila]
jtandy: Let's make sure we're not missing anything we want to talk about in Delft
16:41:54 [phila]
jtandy: Interoperability problems. Like conneg doesn't always work
16:42:05 [phila]
jtandy: I guess the new WG might solve that
16:42:15 [phila]
16:43:06 [phila]
jtandy: Profile will be able to select on CRS etc
16:43:07 [phila]
phila: Yes
16:43:20 [phila]
jtandy: We need to review our outsanding comments
16:43:21 [jtandy]
16:43:29 [phila]
jtandy: Payam read through the list
16:43:38 [phila]
... 8 comments to deal with, one very long
16:44:34 [phila]
... A lot of them will be time expired - but we'll need to go through them
16:44:42 [phila]
jtandy: We need to spend time on the final sprint plan
16:44:58 [phila]
... I've written in a use case and requirements review to make sure we haven't forgotten anything
16:45:16 [phila]
jtandy: We should do it, but not necessarily in Delft.
16:45:26 [jtandy]
16:45:27 [phila]
16:45:51 [phila]
jtandy: We said we'd deal with spatial operators, which we haven't
16:45:52 [phila]
16:45:56 [joshlieberman]
16:46:08 [phila]
jtandy: The same place as proposal, we'll look at
16:46:13 [phila]
... That's now in BP14
16:46:40 [phila]
jtandy: Since I wrote that, I noticed in the OS Ireland data, they use a relationship from open vocabs called similarTo
16:46:53 [phila]
... positioned between owl:sameAs and rdfs:seeAlso
16:47:02 [phila]
jtandy: How many open issues do we have
16:47:13 [phila]
jtandy: Would you be able to prioritise them before Monday?
16:47:20 [phila]
Linda: I think I can do that
16:47:27 [jtandy]
16:47:30 [phila]
ack me
16:48:53 [phila]
ack j
16:49:12 [phila]
joshlieberman: Spatial rels and operators - have we covered everything
16:49:35 [phila]
... Maybe we should say that in some areas we have concluded that there is no BP that we can cite
16:49:51 [phila]
... e.g. geoSPARQL - we can put this into future work
16:49:53 [phila]
16:50:29 [phila]
ack me
16:50:34 [phila]
-> Wwish List
16:51:32 [Linda]
16:51:58 [joshlieberman]
Re: spatial relations - it's largely a timing issue with modularizing / simplifying GeoSPARQL 1.0, so a very concrete wish for next group.
16:52:05 [phila]
phila: Talks about the wish list and why it's useful for possible future work
16:52:26 [phila]
jtandy: The parts I talked about - defining open issues etc. might be the basis
16:52:30 [billroberts]
sorry, got to go. See most of you in Delft
16:53:17 [phila]
jtandy: Also, we need to make sure that we have a quick pass through all the examples and BPs that we have so far and categorise them into BP and good ideas
16:53:34 [phila]
jtandy: I guess we should vote early and then get on with the next sprint
16:53:39 [jtandy]
16:53:41 [phila]
jtandy: Any more issues to add to t he list?
16:54:41 [AndreaPerego]
s/t he/the/
16:55:36 [phila]
phila: Yes, there will be remote participation options. I'll set up the WebEx straight after this meeting
16:55:55 [phila]
phila: Remember that the US is already on DST
16:57:18 [phila]
Linda: I have a slight scheduling conflict as I'm supposed to be at the opening plenary
17:00:01 [phila]
jtandy: Discusses Delft agenda with everyone
17:00:01 [Linda]
17:00:11 [AndreaPerego]
17:00:16 [jtandy]
bye for now
17:00:16 [joshlieberman]
17:00:24 [phila]
RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
17:00:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
17:00:27 [ByronCinNZ]