16:01:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdwbp
16:01:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/03/15-sdwbp-irc
16:02:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:02:01 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdwbp
16:02:03 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
16:02:03 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
16:02:04 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
16:02:04 <trackbot> Date: 15 March 2017
16:02:58 <phila> s/Working/BP Sub/
16:03:18 <ByronCinNZ> ByronCinNZ has joined #sdwbp
16:04:28 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdwbp
16:04:40 <phila> regrets+ Andrea
16:04:49 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
16:05:07 <phila> regrets+ Clemens, Scott
16:05:11 <phila> present+
16:05:49 <ByronCinNZ> present+ ByronCinNZ
16:05:50 <phila> chair: Lord Tandy
16:06:15 <Linda> Linda has joined #sdwbp
16:06:41 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdwbp
16:07:12 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
16:07:34 <Linda> present+ Linda
16:08:02 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
16:08:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/15-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
16:08:08 <tidoust> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:BP-Telecon20170315
16:08:26 <tidoust> Present+ Francois
16:08:32 <phila> scribe: phila
16:08:40 <phila> scribeNick: phila
16:08:49 <phila> jtandy: I recognise everyone on the IRC and WebEx
16:09:01 <phila> ... Let's deal with the Patent Call
16:09:15 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:09:31 <phila> Topic: Approve previous wweek's minutes
16:09:40 <phila> s/ww/w
16:09:43 <Linda> +1
16:09:49 <ByronCinNZ> +1
16:09:51 <MattPerry> +1
16:09:55 <tidoust> +1
16:10:07 <jtandy> +1
16:10:13 <phila> RESOLUTION: Previous week's minutes approved
16:10:32 <phila> Topic: Cross reference Feb/Mar Sprint plan
16:10:47 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Detailed_planning_BP_document#February_-_mid_March_2017:
16:11:16 <phila> jtandy: BP1 - no Josh today. Any e-mail from him?
16:11:18 <phila> Linda: Nope
16:11:20 <joshlieberman> joshlieberman has joined #sdwbp
16:11:53 <phila> [Josh arrives]
16:12:07 <phila> jtandy: You said you had BP1 under control
16:12:23 <phila> joshlieberman: I may not have used those terms but I'm working on a branch.
16:12:40 <phila> jtandy: Will BP1 make it to a PR before tomorrow morning Europe
16:13:05 <phila> jtandy: Of the 2 you have, BP9 is the priority - we know what to do about BP1, it's 9 that needs more work.
16:13:21 <phila> ... So, will there be a BP1 pull request before tomorrow morning.
16:13:42 <phila> joshlieberman: I'm working on BP9 but will have something on BP1 before tomorrow
16:13:54 <phila> Topic: BP 8
16:14:13 <phila> s/8/2/
16:14:40 <phila> jtandy: In the plenary, we said we could remove BP2 which I think I can now go ahead and remove
16:15:03 <phila> ... There's an open issue about the URN stuff that we need to put in the conclusions. But I think I can delete BP2
16:15:27 <phila> ... Looking at next sprint. I see the open challenges to go into expressing units
16:15:40 <phila> ... Is anyone not happy with deleting BP2 later today?>
16:15:48 <phila> [Crickets]
16:15:57 <jtandy> q?
16:15:59 <phila> action: jtandy To remove BP2
16:16:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-287 - Remove bp2 [on Jeremy Tandy - due 2017-03-22].
16:16:16 <ByronCinNZ> ByronCinNZ has joined #sdwbp
16:16:25 <phila> jtandy: back to the detailed planning spring
16:16:30 <phila> topic: BP8
16:16:40 <phila> jtandy: Andrea has been very busy and working late
16:16:56 <phila> ... Got  another couple of changes to make this evening. Expecting pull request shortly
16:17:03 <phila> ... Looking goof IMO
16:17:08 <phila> s/goof/good/
16:17:23 <phila> Linda: It's becoming a clear BP with useful actionable info
16:17:27 <phila> Topic: BP10
16:17:50 <phila> jtandy: I bring people's attention to a note from Bill who says he may be here but wwill be late
16:17:54 <phila> s/ww/w
16:18:11 <phila> jtandy: He, Linda and I have been chatting about what he's been doing with BP10
16:18:15 <jtandy> https://rawgit.com/w3c/sdw/bill-bp10/bp/index.html#semantic-thing
16:18:24 <phila> jtandy: That's what Bill has beenn doing so far
16:18:30 <joshlieberman> Re: BP-9 the Guildford example confuses relative and approximate, but I (no londoner) cannot figure out the location being referenced. Help?
16:18:40 <phila> ... There are some significant updates there.
16:18:50 <phila> ... There will be a continuation of BP10 in the next sprint
16:19:09 <billroberts> billroberts has joined #sdwbp
16:19:10 <phila> ... Introduction of the same place as a property - TBD in Delft
16:19:14 <phila> Topic: BP14
16:19:32 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #sdwbp
16:19:43 <phila> jtandy: Linda has pointed out that there have been so many updates it's now about 3 BPs. Lots to talk about in Delft.
16:19:52 <phila> ... We'll be talking about how to put things in the right order.
16:19:56 <phila> Topic: BP16
16:20:03 <billroberts> present+ billroberts
16:20:04 <phila> jtandy: This will be merged with BP10
16:20:16 <billroberts> q+
16:20:45 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
16:20:51 <phila> billroberts: Yes, I am aiming to submit a pull request this evening for a half decent attempt at BP10
16:20:55 <phila> ack b
16:21:07 <phila> billroberts: That will mean deleting BP16 and leaving a place holder
16:21:13 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:21:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/15-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
16:21:43 <jtandy> q?
16:21:44 <phila> jtandy: As you're here, AndreaPerego - we note that BP8 is looking a lot better than before. Are you expecting to put in a new PR?
16:21:54 <phila> AndreaPerego: It depends on the timing.
16:22:01 <phila> ... When do we freeze?
16:22:11 <phila> jtandy: Can you, Linda, merge any PRs tomorrow morning
16:22:31 <phila> action: Linda to merge outstanding pull requests, Thursday 16th a.m.
16:22:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-288 - Merge outstanding pull requests, thursday 16th a.m. [on Linda van den Brink - due 2017-03-22].
16:22:54 <phila> jtandy: 07:00 UTC is the target time
16:23:12 <phila> AndreaPerego: The points that are still open still require some consideration
16:23:18 <phila> ... Not sure if it will be done by tomorrow
16:23:35 <phila> jtandy: IIRC, there are some small changes. Others that need more, I'm content that they continue into the next sprint
16:23:41 <jtandy> q?
16:23:43 <phila> AndreaPerego: Small changes, no problem
16:24:22 <phila> jtandy: After the merge, can you send an e-mail to the list to say the doc is frozen ahead of a vote on Monday
16:24:34 <phila> Linda: Anything else, like the status section?
16:24:39 <AndreaPerego> regrets- Andrea
16:24:41 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:24:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/15-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
16:24:43 <phila> jtandy: That can be done Monday onwards
16:25:16 <AndreaPerego> regrets+ Lars
16:25:18 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:25:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/15-sdwbp-minutes.html AndreaPerego
16:25:31 <phila> topic: BP11 access adn APIs
16:25:38 <phila> jtandy: Clemens has done
16:25:44 <phila> ... More on CRS has been done and is stable
16:25:54 <phila> ... Byron you made some inroads into ??
16:26:26 <phila> ByronCinNZ: I'm happy with that's been happening
16:26:32 <phila> jtandy: So 3 and 17 are good.
16:26:35 <phila> Topic: BP6
16:26:46 <phila> Linda: I just changed the title a little and added two examples
16:26:57 <phila> ... One is of changing municipality boundaries
16:27:08 <phila> ... the other is about Alps
16:27:28 <phila> ... for the rest, I think BP6 is done.
16:27:40 <phila> Topic: Editorial
16:27:55 <phila> jtandy: We're leaving stubs in the doc to retain numbering
16:28:15 <phila> ... Ed has put some stuff into the CRS introductory material about engineering practice
16:28:19 <phila> Topic: BP9
16:28:56 <phila> joshlieberman: I don't have it to show you, but I'm going to introduce perspectives from AR to discuss relative to a stationary, moving object anda perspective
16:29:01 <phila> ... Those are the three things
16:29:31 <phila> joshlieberman: There's an example at the beginning of the doc about Guildford and London Bridge which I find confusing.
16:29:40 <phila> jtandy: Go for different examples - that'll be easier.
16:29:55 <phila> jtandy: There's not a lot of stuff in BP9 to date. I think the floor is yours.
16:30:02 <phila> RRSAgent, draft moinutes v2
16:30:02 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft moinutes v2', phila.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:30:05 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
16:30:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/15-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
16:30:31 <phila> jtandy: We're expecting a PR this evening
16:30:33 <phila> joshlieberman: Yes
16:30:40 <phila> Topic: BP2
16:30:49 <phila> jtandy: I havea an action to do that, which will be there for you to merge tomorrow
16:30:55 <phila> Topic: BP15
16:31:02 <phila> jtandy: That one has gone, as have 12 and 13
16:31:19 <phila> Topic: Section 14
16:31:28 <phila> jtandy: Plan says that was for you to remove Linda.
16:31:38 <phila> Linda: I can do it tomorrow before the merges
16:31:54 <phila> jtandy: TNhe material won't go away, it'll be in GH, but that should just work.
16:31:59 <phila> Linda: Should I leave a stub?
16:32:05 <phila> jtandy: I don't think so.
16:32:15 <phila> ... I left a stub for appendix B but thgat's all
16:32:22 <phila> topic: Section 13
16:32:49 <phila> jtandy: Talks about other BPs. We'll leave this as it is. It's for BPs that haven't bene put in place yet
16:32:54 <phila> ... So that can stay
16:32:57 <phila> Linda: OK
16:33:13 <AndreaPerego> s/TNhe/The/
16:33:15 <phila> jtandy: We'll get rid of the section on the next sprint.
16:33:29 <phila> jtandy: Linda has handled the ReSpec 'errors'
16:33:45 <phila> jtandy: So we're looking health for this sprint - thank you.
16:33:50 <phila> [Applause]
16:34:00 <phila> Linda: I think it's the best sprint yet
16:34:05 <AndreaPerego> q+ to talk about two missing things in BP8
16:34:09 <phila> jtandy: we're getting faster at the end of the marathon
16:34:23 <phila> jtandy: BP8 and 10 will have work in the next sprint
16:34:25 <phila> ack a
16:34:25 <Zakim> AndreaPerego, you wanted to talk about two missing things in BP8
16:34:26 <jtandy> q?
16:34:41 <phila> AndreaPerego: Just to say... 2 things missing from BP8 - comments by Clemens and Josh in the calls.
16:35:08 <phila> ... There wasn't time to do this, but I'd appreciate time from them both to see if what I've doine is OK, if not, what else needs to be done
16:35:32 <phila> jtandy: This is, I think, about not using a literal on its own, but wrapping it inside a geometry object
16:35:44 <phila> joshlieberman: Yes, distinguish position from geometry
16:35:56 <phila> ... Better to have a geometry that has accessible properties
16:36:20 <phila> jtandy: So Josh can you pls talk to Andrea offline - this won't make this sprint
16:36:27 <phila> AndreaPerego: I'd like to include what I can
16:36:32 <phila> joshlieberman: Should we insert an issue?
16:36:45 <phila> jtandy: Andrea feel free to if you want to
16:37:02 <phila> AndreaPerego: We can do it via the mailing list. For tracking purposes I guess it's better, so I'll do that.
16:37:08 <jtandy> In our calls, Josh mentioned that "best practice" is that where geometry literals are used (e.g. WKT, GML etc.) you should that wrap these in _geometry objects_ that provide a little metadata about that geometry; e.g. dimensionality, CRS etc. This avoids having to load another parser to determine if the geometry is useful. GML does this to some degree in the @attributes srsName, srsDimension, axisLabels etc. I think Josh was referring to similar constructs
16:37:08 <jtandy>  such as GeoSPARQL's geosparql:Geometry class which may have the following attributes: geo:dimension, geo:coordinateDimension, geo:spatialDimension, geo:isEmpty, geo:isSimple, geo:hasSerialization
16:37:14 <phila> jtandy: I'll insert the text I gave you as feedback
16:37:39 <phila> s/I'll insert/I just inserted/
16:37:54 <phila> AndreaPerego: We have a placeholder at the end of BP8
16:37:57 <phila> jtandy: Yes
16:38:05 <phila> joshlieberman: I'll compose an e-mail that we can work from
16:38:08 <phila> jtandy: Thank you Andrea
16:38:18 <AndreaPerego> :)
16:38:21 <phila> Topic: Agenda planning for F2F
16:38:31 <phila> jtandy: For those on the call...
16:38:40 <phila> ... Who will be there?
16:38:43 <billroberts> Tuesday only
16:38:57 <AndreaPerego> I'll be there., but have to leave at 5PM on Tue.
16:38:57 <joshlieberman> josh will be present, but in and out due to other sessions.
16:39:11 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Attending_F2F6 Attending F2F
16:39:14 <AndreaPerego> s/there.,/there,/
16:39:48 <phila> phila: I've not heard whether Simon is or isn't going to be there
16:39:50 <phila> Linda: I guess not
16:40:02 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:F2F6#Monday_20th_March
16:40:03 <phila> jtandy: The meeting page...
16:40:21 <phila> jtandy: You'll see that we have a draft agenda which is a list of topics.
16:40:32 <phila> ... SSN have the first 90 minutes, then we take a generous break
16:40:44 <phila> ... and we start the BP work and go to the end of the day.
16:41:03 <phila> jtandy: Wwhat I propose is that on the day, we shuffle those into the right order
16:41:08 <phila> s/Ww/W/
16:41:40 <phila> jtandy: Let's make sure we're not missing anything we want to talk about in Delft
16:41:54 <phila> jtandy: Interoperability problems. Like conneg doesn't always work
16:42:05 <phila> jtandy: I guess the new WG might solve that
16:42:15 <phila> -> https://w3c.github.io/dxwg/charter/ DXWG
16:43:06 <phila> jtandy: Profile will be able to select on CRS etc
16:43:07 <phila> phila: Yes
16:43:20 <phila> jtandy: We need to review our outsanding comments
16:43:21 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Detailed_planning_BP_document#Review_public_comments
16:43:29 <phila> jtandy: Payam read through the list
16:43:38 <phila> ... 8 comments to deal with, one very long
16:44:34 <phila> ... A lot of them will be time expired - but we'll need to go through them
16:44:42 <phila> jtandy: We need to spend time on the final sprint plan
16:44:58 <phila> ... I've written in a use case and requirements review to make sure we haven't forgotten anything
16:45:16 <phila> jtandy: We should do it, but not necessarily in Delft.
16:45:26 <jtandy> q?
16:45:27 <phila> q?
16:45:51 <phila> jtandy: We said we'd deal with spatial operators, which we haven't
16:45:52 <phila> q+
16:45:56 <joshlieberman> q+
16:46:08 <phila> jtandy: The same place as proposal, we'll look at
16:46:13 <phila> ... That's now in BP14
16:46:40 <phila> jtandy: Since I wrote that, I noticed in the OS Ireland data, they use a relationship from open vocabs called similarTo
16:46:53 <phila> ... positioned between owl:sameAs and rdfs:seeAlso
16:47:02 <phila> jtandy: How many open issues do we have
16:47:13 <phila> jtandy: Would you be able to prioritise them before Monday?
16:47:20 <phila> Linda: I think I can do that
16:47:27 <jtandy> q?
16:47:30 <phila> ack me
16:48:53 <phila> ack j
16:49:12 <phila> joshlieberman: Spatial rels and operators - have we covered everything
16:49:35 <phila> ... Maybe we should say that in some areas we have concluded that there is no BP that we can cite
16:49:51 <phila> ... e.g. geoSPARQL - we can put this into future work
16:49:53 <phila> q+
16:50:29 <phila> ack me
16:50:34 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Wish_List Wwish List
16:51:32 <Linda> s/Wwish/wish
16:51:58 <joshlieberman> Re: spatial relations - it's largely a timing issue with modularizing / simplifying GeoSPARQL 1.0, so a very concrete wish for next group.
16:52:05 <phila> phila: Talks about the wish list and why it's useful for possible future work
16:52:26 <phila> jtandy: The parts I talked about - defining open issues etc. might be the basis
16:52:30 <billroberts> sorry, got to go.  See most of you in Delft
16:53:17 <phila> jtandy: Also, we need to make sure that we have a quick pass through all the examples and BPs that we have so far and categorise them into BP and good ideas
16:53:34 <phila> jtandy: I guess we should vote early and then get on with the next sprint
16:53:39 <jtandy> q?
16:53:41 <phila> jtandy: Any more issues to add to t he list?
16:54:41 <AndreaPerego> s/t he/the/
16:55:36 <phila> phila: Yes, there will be remote participation options. I'll set up the WebEx straight after this meeting
16:55:55 <phila> phila: Remember that the US is already on DST
16:57:18 <phila> Linda: I have a slight scheduling conflict as I'm supposed to be at the opening plenary
17:00:01 <phila> jtandy: Discusses Delft agenda with everyone
17:00:01 <Linda> bye
17:00:11 <AndreaPerego> Bye!
17:00:16 <jtandy> bye for now
17:00:16 <joshlieberman> bye
17:00:24 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes v2
17:00:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/15-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
17:00:27 <ByronCinNZ> bye