15:48:40 RRSAgent has joined #editing 15:48:40 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-editing-irc 15:49:00 rrsagent, make log public 15:49:47 rrsagent, please stay 15:51:08 Zakim has joined #editing 16:58:39 chongz has joined #editing 17:01:56 present+ chaals, johannes, chongz 17:02:10 rrsagent, make logs public 17:02:44 agenda+ dictionary or interface for static range 17:03:01 agenda+ contextEditable=plaintext-only? 17:03:28 agenda+ mark ranges with spellcheckedness? 17:04:04 agenda+ getTargetRanges info outside beforeInput 17:04:12 present+ Grisha 17:04:27 chair: Johannes 17:05:01 scribe: chaals 17:05:28 agenda? 17:07:11 zakim, item 1 17:07:11 I don't understand 'item 1', chaals 17:07:16 zakim, take up item 1 17:07:16 agendum 1. "dictionary or interface for static range" taken up [from chaals] 17:07:29 -> https://github.com/w3c/input-events/issues/38 issue 38: dictionary or interface 17:08:13 JW: We discover that webkit is about to ship with an interface, and nobody seems opposed to it, so we can go back to that instead of using a dictionary, if nobody disagrees. 17:08:29 … Chong will this Static Range interface spec appear? 17:08:35 CZ: Gary will make it. 17:09:00 JW: So in Input Events we go back to what we had pre-dictionary. 17:09:10 Grisha: OK 17:09:21 RESOLUTION: We use interface for static range 17:09:26 zakim, next item 17:09:26 agendum 2. "contextEditable=plaintext-only?" taken up [from chaals] 17:09:52 -> https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/162 issue 62 17:10:27 JW: Webkit are *using* cE=plaintextonly, and Chrome has been shipping it. But if people are fine with adding this, it seems to make sense 17:10:54 Grisha: Agree. Edge ships it too. Let's add it. There are some interop issues Ojan brought up, we can address those as we go. 17:11:06 JW: So, we agree to add it. 17:11:20 RESOLUTION: We add plaintext-only as a cE type 17:11:41 JW: So, are people OK with the idea that there are no beforeInput formatting events… 17:11:53 https://github.com/w3c/editing/issues/162 17:12:03 Grisha: Missed that comment. What values do we fire the events for 17:12:33 JW: We'll fire them for the text itself, but not for e.g. "bold". 17:13:02 … ctrl-B won't make an event, but "w" "3" "c" will make events for the text… 17:13:13 Grisha: Need to think about use cases here, let's open an issue. 17:13:15 JW: OK 17:13:26 … What about pasting into plaintext only? 17:13:48 … Both wanted to ignore formatting if you paste into plaintext-only 17:13:53 Grisha: That makes sense. 17:14:13 JW: It's a draft, not a finished stone, but let's put that in, and raise issues to check whether we really agree. 17:14:28 … Ojan's point - what happens if you hit enter. 17:14:35 Grisha: Yep 17:14:57 RESOLUTION: If you paste into plaintext-only you get text but no formatting 17:15:20 JW: Think this is already how Chrome works. 17:15:43 zakim, next item 17:15:43 agendum 3. "mark ranges with spellcheckedness?" taken up [from chaals] 17:16:02 JW: If you do something yourself, the browser no longer knows if the text has been spellchecked or not. 17:17:20 … Webkit cannot give direct access to spellchecker in JS for security reasons 17:17:51 Grisha: Similar in EdgeHTML. Spellchecker should be directly user-invoked. Don't see a justification to expose the functionality to JS devs 17:18:10 JW: Alternative to getting direct spellcheck access is to tell the browser whether a range has been spellchecked or not. 17:18:22 s/to tell/for the app to tell/ 17:18:55 … this was a suggestion from Ryosuke, and it would be helpful. Question is where would such an interface live, are there more security issues with it, … 17:19:01 Grisha: What's the use case? 17:20:24 CMN: Where the application is handling input chunks, and the browser gets a pile of text, but doesn't know whether the input was spellchecked or the application wants the browser to spellcheck it. 17:20:38 JW: Or where you merge two paragraphs in the application. 17:21:22 … Some editors try to hand as much as possible to the browsers. But where there is a collaborative editor, the word is being inserted by the JS, and the browser no longer knows which bits have been spellchecked. 17:21:51 … If we can't get a direct spellcheck API, it would be good to say "this should be spellchecked" or "this has been spellchecked" 17:22:22 CZ: Can you prevent spellchecking in insertRange? 17:22:32 grisha has joined #editing 17:22:41 JW: What is the mechanism, where you *want* something spellchecked? 17:23:06 … e.g. I write the sentence, my friend on his machine adds the word "not", but I still want my text to be spellchecked. 17:23:22 … (still in collaborative editor scenario) 17:23:56 … Think we are open to all kind of solutions, this is based on Ryosuke's proposal, but it is a use case that we want to be able to meet. 17:24:16 [Hmm. Scratching of beards…] 17:24:37 Grisha: Let's open an issue - I haven't thought enough about it yet. 17:25:02 ACTION: Johannes to open an issue and bug Grisha to shop it around internally 17:25:09 zakim, next item 17:25:09 agendum 4. "getTargetRanges info outside beforeInput" taken up [from chaals] 17:25:47 JW: A few people have been talking about this. Where do words and sentences end? It's complicated and not going to get resolved soon, but it would be good if JS could try to act like the browser it is *currently* running in. 17:26:13 … so that if we trigger beforeInput we can know what is the targetRange for a word forward, or a word backward, so what we fire matches what the browser would do. 17:26:43 … where does this dicsussion go and how realistic is it to expose this information… 17:26:54 s/dics/disc/ 17:27:54 CMN: The amount of work to get a formal model is possibly more work than bringing behaviour into alignment… 17:28:35 JW: Yeah, but it seems there are external reasons why there won't be an effort to align. If we could have a sense of measurement - what does "one word forward" cover from *here*? 17:28:48 … Right now we implement our own understanding, and that can produce conflicts. 17:29:20 Grisha: Talking about word or sentence end, do you mean line breaks or is there more? 17:29:58 JW: In european languages we can generally find word and sentence divisions. But for some other languages that doesn't work well - to know where a japanese word ends you need something more like a language dictionary. 17:30:43 Just to clarify: Are we talking about this issue? https://github.com/w3c/selection-api/issues/37 17:30:54 … so if I want to move the cursor forward one word by script, or create a beforeInput that selects the word, I have to specify the targetRange. If my guess is different to the browser's guess, then they won't know what is going to happen when they try to e.g. select a word. 17:31:42 JW: It isn't just about changing selection 17:31:56 CZ: Yeah, but using this you can get the piece of information you want. 17:32:27 … so this API solves the issue of finding what the word, sentence, etc is… 17:32:35 JW: Sounds similar 17:32:52 … if this is the information needed to construct the targetRange, then that would do it. 17:33:19 … Yep, this looks like we can use it. So we point to this in selection API ... 17:33:31 Grisha: WOuld be a good idea to construct an example to make sure it fits the requirements. 17:33:55 JW: OK, this looks like something we should at least refer to in a note in the Input Events spec. 17:34:13 ACTION: JW write an example showing this and pointing to it… 17:34:43 s/showing this/showing the use of the selection API to construct the targetRange 17:34:50 Topic: Next meeting? 17:35:05 JW: Let's plan for next month, and if we don't need it we'll cancel a week earlier. 17:35:07 Grisha +1 17:35:41 CMN: Suggest we go with a plan for second Tuesday of the month, time as is. 17:36:24 Grisha: time works for me. 17:36:46 CMN: Let's pin it to second Tuesday of the month, 1300 Boston time. 17:37:00 … (because that's how W3C's systems default) 17:37:48 RESOLUTION: Next meeting planned April 11, 10am Pacific, 1pm Boston, 1700Z 6pm London, 7pm Central Europe Summer Time. 17:38:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:38:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-editing-minutes.html chaals 17:38:28 rrsagent, make minutes public 17:38:28 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', chaals. Try /msg RRSAgent help 17:38:36 rrsagent, make log public 17:40:45 ACTION: chaals to book the meeting bridge 17:40:52 Meeting: Editing TF 17:41:35 s/contextEditable/contentEditable/g 17:42:22 s/Grisha +1/Grisha: +1/ 17:42:28 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:42:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-editing-minutes.html chaals 17:50:16 s/issue and bug/issue on spellchecking and bug/ 17:50:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:50:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-editing-minutes.html chaals 18:05:16 rrsagent, bye 18:05:16 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-editing-actions.rdf : 18:05:16 ACTION: Johannes to open an issue and bug Grisha to shop it around internally [1] 18:05:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-editing-irc#T17-25-02 18:05:16 ACTION: JW write an example showing this and pointing to it… [2] 18:05:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-editing-irc#T17-34-13 18:05:16 ACTION: chaals to book the meeting bridge [3] 18:05:16 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/14-editing-irc#T17-40-45