15:58:26 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 15:58:26 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-irc 15:58:28 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:58:28 Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y 15:58:30 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 15:58:30 ok, trackbot 15:58:31 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:58:31 Date: 09 March 2017 15:59:09 Agenda+ CSUN Update 15:59:10 Agenda+ Actions 15:59:12 Agenda+ Subtle Language in 2.0 15:59:30 laura has joined #mobile-a11y 16:07:10 marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y 16:09:36 Jatin has joined #mobile-a11y 16:11:11 Jatin Present+ 16:13:26 present+ marcjohlic 16:14:18 Jatin: CSun new Android features – verbosity, change name role state 16:18:07 Jatin: user issue – managing chat flow 16:22:25 Shadi: this applies more to native apps but to apps in general, testing – a lot of traditional web accessibility testing can be done by code inspection. Right now all the framework of course – you do need to test using ATs and functional testing still applies. But for mobile apps it's a whole different game – devices in different versions of devices. Testing becomes less source code... 16:22:26 ...looking... 16:22:28 ... – you need to test the output much more different modes different devices. the evaluation site is so much more complex now. Maybe we need new approaches on that front as well 16:23:06 Jatin: it's a challenge for native app 16:24:03 Shadi: native apps is pushing the borders a bit but I think that applies even to desktop apps – using so many frameworks now 16:26:03 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/track/ 16:26:09 www.deque.com/csun17 16:30:20 Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y 16:30:40 present+ Kathy 16:33:02 Kathy: I did three presentations on mobile – one was specific to the new success criteria proposed in WCAG 2.1. Kim and shadi and I. Draft went out right before – lots of conversation about it. Presentation received positively. I didn't hear anything negative about any of the success criteria that we proposed. I heard a lot about some of the other ones. The big take away from the... 16:33:03 ...conversations I 16:33:05 had at CSUN is there may be some scenarios that we didn't think about 16:34:24 Kathy: links together – I think there are other scenarios we may have to go back and revisit – just looking at tightening up the different success criteria. But overall it was very positive. Mobile was definitely something being talked about quite a bit. The BBC did their update to their mobile accessibility guidelines which they launched. Take a look at them. Big changes or more on... 16:34:25 ...interaction not necessarily related to mobile. not just mobile – applied everything. Doing a lot with games now – additional things around games. For example if there's audio you're not interrupting the screen reader. 16:35:12 Kathy: things that come into play when you have audio narration – directly relate to the types of applications that they are building. I talk to people other guidelines – Sweden. Everyone interested in what's happening in 2.1. 16:36:10 Kathy: all 10 proposed success criteria went into 2.1. All those are going into a survey, people are going to comment and we are trying to finalize. Comment until March 31. Expecting comment to come back that we will have to address. once they are finalized we will start writing techniques and understanding language that will go along with them 16:36:50 Kathy: so everything is moving forward, there is still a lot of work that has to be done. They will try to address success criteria that are ready in comments. A lot of ours are ready. We may have additional comments we have to do. I highly encourage everyone to monitor the comments that are there – if you know an answer or have an opinion please comment – it's helpful to have more comment 16:37:02 Kathy: if you have an answer answer and join in the conversation 16:37:33 Chris: also those comments get long – if you see some thing that someone had a good point on in the past draw their attention to a specific thread or comment so they can answer 16:38:36 Kathy: next steps: the working group is going to go through each of the success criteria – you are all invited to attend the WCAG working group sessions and talk about those. I will alert people to when the SCs will be talked about in the group – you'll be able to decide whether you want to attend. Right now there is not – I'll let you know when some of those will be on the call 16:39:58 Kathy: the other initiative is proposed changes to WCAG 2.0. On the last meeting we identified a number of areas where we wanted to add things to the understanding, examples to the techniques, other modifications. That is what we need to work on. They will be regular pull request that we do against 2.0 in Github, included in working group. Not clear about if 2.0 will be updated – might just... 16:40:00 ...be in 2.1 but best way to get them in is pull requests on 2.0 repository 16:40:33 Kathy: bottom line is CSUN was very successful – good opportunity to talk to people about good work task force has done and happy to see that 10 of the success criteria went into the draft. It doesn't mean that they are final but it's a step in the right direction 16:40:51 Kathy: questions? 16:41:45 Kathy: Kim went back and looked through all of the actions that we had put together so if you're wondering what you are assigned in the last few meetings you can go into the actions. Were also going to put together a table that outlines what things we are changing for which success criteria so that we have that also, easier to track. Once we finish, review and do a pull request. We will send... 16:41:47 ...that out to survey so more people have the option of commenting. 16:42:54 Kathy: a few things that we identified in the minutes that we didn't have actions for. Touch target size changes went into the draft – we rewrote that slightly in the final diversion making an exception if it's not a primary action – one doesn't have to have a primary touch target size of the other one does. In the case of duplicate links and page layout. That's already been changed 16:43:19 Kathy: the link in the appendix also went in 16:43:32 Kathy: 2.1 draft links out to all success criteria that were proposed – it's in the introduction, not appendix 16:45:12 Kathy: list that Alistair put together around responsive design – one of those was accessible hiding. I think we might want to add a technique for it. On mobile there's a problem especially when things are positioned offscreen were focus moves off when you can't see it. Several things that pose challenges for mobile. These came up at CSun – definitely things people have questions on. So I... 16:45:14 ...want to propose we write a technique specifically for that. We need to figure out where that would go 16:45:43 Kathy: so if we have something that's visible but positioned off screen and moves focus – that would be one thing. The other is when you go to the responsively outset everything that shouldn't be visible is actually hidden 16:45:59 Kathy: I haven't gone back to see if that exists so we want to cross reference – I have been on my list to do research 16:46:30 Action: Kathy to do research on accessible hiding to determine what and where we should at about that 16:46:30 Created ACTION-65 - Do research on accessible hiding to determine what and where we should at about that [on Kathleen Wahlbin - due 2017-03-16]. 16:47:03 Kathy: volunteer for someone to write something on accessible hiding – how screen readers work for VoiceOver and android 16:47:28 ACTION: Chris to write technique on accessible hiding 16:47:29 Created ACTION-66 - Write technique on accessible hiding [on Chris McMeeking - due 2017-03-16]. 16:48:53 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Subset_of_WCAG_2.0_Techniques_Applicable_to_Mobile_without_Changes_that_need_language_update 16:49:48 Kim: Subtle changes in language to show applicability 16:49:54 Kim: Josh went through first bunch and made some changes. Would be good to look at samples and see what was fixed. The second and fifth have changes. 16:50:08 Kathy: We need to go through Techniques - but Understanding documents as well 16:50:26 Kim: I was going through the whole thing, but didn't get very far. 16:51:15 Kathy: Maybe we put a list of all. I think we need to go through each of the SCs and go and make changes. For example if it says "Desktop" we make it non-specific. 16:52:07 Kim: I was going through Techniques applicable to Mobile w/o changes - but should go through the whole thing. Link above shows an example of what was done. 16:52:22 Kim: Should go through the whole thing and create a similar list in the wiki. 16:52:30 Kim: Made it up to G155 16:53:09 Kim: I will create a new wiki page - will point to these - but we can go through them all looking for this kind of language. 16:53:51 https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/ 16:54:17 Kathy: Just look at existing WCAG 2.0 - Maybe look at the GitHub repo for the latest 16:55:06 WCAG on GitHub: https://github.com/w3c/wcag 16:56:21 ACTION: Kim to set up wiki page for going through WCAG 2.0 to point out subtle language that might imply desktop and suggest changes so that it's inclusive to mobile 16:56:22 Created ACTION-67 - Set up wiki page for going through wcag 2.0 to point out subtle language that might imply desktop and suggest changes so that it's inclusive to mobile [on Kimberly Patch - due 2017-03-16]. 16:58:06 Kathy: we do want to just focus on the changes that we have for 2.0. For 2.1 we will be writing those but not until we get the success criteria finalized so were not redoing work. leave action items open for 2.1 we will get to them later 16:59:44 Kathy: I'll have action items for next week, we'll also talk about Kim's setting up going through 2.0 for subtle changes 17:07:16 rrsagent, make minutes 17:07:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 17:10:31 Present+ Kim, Chris, Jatin, Shadi 17:13:19 Regrets+ Detlev, Jon, Patrick 17:13:31 rrsagent, make minutes 17:13:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 17:14:37 chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin 17:14:47 rrsagent, make minutes 17:14:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 17:20:03 rrsagent, bye 17:20:03 I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-actions.rdf : 17:20:03 ACTION: Kathy to do research on accessible hiding to determine what and where we should at about that [1] 17:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-irc#T16-46-30 17:20:03 ACTION: Chris to write technique on accessible hiding [2] 17:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-irc#T16-47-28 17:20:03 ACTION: Kim to set up wiki page for going through WCAG 2.0 to point out subtle language that might imply desktop and suggest changes so that it's inclusive to mobile [3] 17:20:03 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/03/09-mobile-a11y-irc#T16-56-21