19:41:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
19:41:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/03/07-aapi-irc
19:41:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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19:41:14 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
19:41:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
19:41:15 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
19:41:15 <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2017
19:41:51 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:41:57 <clown> agenda: this
19:42:05 <clown> agenda+ (Joanie) AX API mapping issues and testing
19:42:14 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1732 (Michael, Joseph) Add conformance section to the Core-AAM.
19:42:24 <clown> agenda+ (Bogdan) Specifying AAPI UIA interface in focus events table, and other mapping tables.
19:42:33 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-738 (Bogdan) Verify or provide correct UIA mapping for role="heading".
19:42:43 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-1026/ACTION-1694 (James) AX API mapping of aria-errormessage
19:42:56 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-673: Need standard way to distinguish data tables from layout tables
19:43:09 <clown> agenda+ Triage actions/issues: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
19:43:30 <clown> agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas:  https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:43:49 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas:  https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:44:10 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname actions:  https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
19:44:17 <clown> agenda+ be done.
20:01:27 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
20:01:37 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:06:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aapi
20:07:42 <clown> clown has changed the topic to: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m111076a5138536589c06d9b5c35ffb51 Meeting Number: 641 707 405 Next Meeting 14-Mar-2017, 20:00 UTC (10:43:29 AM)
20:09:35 <clown1> clown1 has joined #aapi
20:12:53 <joanie> scribe: joanie
20:13:00 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
20:13:00 <Zakim> agendum 1. "(Joanie) AX API mapping issues and testing" taken up [from clown]
20:13:17 <joanie> JS: Do I have a list of this issues anywhere?
20:13:34 <joanie> JS: Actually, this is about the few mappings from which we don't yet have mappings from James.
20:13:45 <joanie> JS: In some cases, he's waiting to see if there's uptake.
20:14:04 <joanie> JS: In other cases, he's not gotten back to us.
20:14:25 <joanie> JS: Since Joanie is working on ATTAs for WebKit, Mac, etc., she's unofficially in charge of this.
20:14:35 <joanie> JS: Does Joanie know anything?
20:14:50 <joanie> JD: I am still working on everything.
20:14:55 <joanie> JS: It's ongoing.
20:14:58 <joanie> JD: Correct.
20:15:02 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:15:02 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1732 (Michael, Joseph) Add conformance section to the Core-AAM." taken up [from clown]
20:15:11 <clown1> action-1732
20:15:11 <trackbot> action-1732 -- Michael Cooper to Work on conformance section for mappings (note there is a section, but change id=conformance so respec picks up) -- due 2015-10-14 -- CLOSED
20:15:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1732
20:15:34 <joanie> JS: There's a section which has to be put in for conformance.
20:15:46 <joanie> JS: I got in touch with Michael early February.
20:15:54 <joanie> JS: He responded with a pull request.
20:15:58 <clown1> https://github.com/w3c/aria/commit/41e2fb379eab54481c7b12755b94f96f7205041b
20:16:02 <joanie> JS: I asked him to also do it for AccName.
20:16:06 <joanie> JS: Michael did.
20:16:15 <joanie> JS: The commit is at the URL above.
20:16:22 <joanie> JS: (Reads from commit message)
20:16:57 <joanie> RS: This was editorial?
20:17:21 <joanie> JS: Essentially, but because it's conformance-related it is normative.
20:17:28 <joanie> RS: Does it look right?
20:17:32 <joanie> JS: Yes.
20:17:49 <joanie> JS: He took out the old one, which wasn't the right style I guess.
20:18:02 <joanie> RS: What does "conformance" mean for us?
20:18:11 <joanie> RS: Does it mean all platforms? Two platforms?
20:18:16 <joanie> JS: Good question.
20:18:29 <joanie> RS: We had to conform for ARIA 1.0, right?
20:18:31 <joanie> JS: Yes.
20:18:48 <joanie> RS: And I think we have to go with what we had.
20:19:02 <joanie> JS: I don't think we can contradict what's in the ARIA spec.
20:19:07 <joanie> JS: It has to be consistent.
20:19:17 <clown1> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#conformance
20:19:30 <joanie> JS: The conformance section is at the URL above.
20:21:10 <clown1> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#features-deprecated-in-wai-aria
20:21:26 <joanie> RS: We don't have to test deprecated things, correct?
20:21:29 <joanie> JS: Good question.
20:21:40 <joanie> JS: I think that if it's deprecated, it's from 1.0.
20:21:51 <joanie> JS: And 1.0 features have already been tested.
20:22:11 <joanie> JS: The spec says user agents are still encouraged to implement it.
20:23:25 <joanie> JS: I've already closed this action.
20:23:28 <joanie> JS: Anything else?
20:23:32 <joanie> RS: No we're done.
20:23:37 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:23:37 <Zakim> agendum 3. "(Bogdan) Specifying AAPI UIA interface in focus events table, and other mapping tables." taken up [from clown]
20:24:07 <joanie> JS: I cannot remember the action, but there is some issue about focus events for UIA.
20:24:24 <joanie> JS: I've pinged Bogdan twice. No answer.
20:25:08 <clown1> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Feb/0017.html
20:27:07 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:27:07 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ISSUE-738 (Bogdan) Verify or provide correct UIA mapping for role="heading"." taken up [from clown]
20:27:14 <clown1> issue-738
20:27:14 <trackbot> issue-738 -- UIA mapping for heading incorrect -- open
20:27:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/738
20:27:27 <clown1> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Dec/0039.html
20:27:38 <joanie> JS: Email also sent to Bogdan (URL above)
20:28:08 <joanie> JS: So this item, and the previous agenda item, are the two things we're waiting for Bogdan to get back to us about.
20:28:40 <joanie> RS: I will follow up on this.
20:33:00 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:33:00 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ISSUE-1026/ACTION-1694 (James) AX API mapping of aria-errormessage" taken up [from clown]
20:33:38 <clown1> ISSUE-1026
20:33:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-1026 -- AAPI mappings for aria-errormessage -- closed
20:33:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/1026
20:33:44 <joanie> JS: This is bookkeeping.
20:33:57 <clown1> action-1694
20:33:57 <trackbot> action-1694 -- James Craig to Propose AXAPI mapping of aria-errormessage -- due 2015-08-04 -- CLOSED
20:33:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1694
20:34:12 <clown1> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/457
20:34:14 <joanie> JS: James got in touch with me asking me to close them because they are being tracked in github.
20:34:24 <joanie> JS: Github issue URL above.
20:34:33 <joanie> JS: So I've done as James has asked.
20:34:43 <joanie> JS: They will no longer show up in Tracker; just github.
20:34:51 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:34:51 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ISSUE-673: Need standard way to distinguish data tables from layout tables" taken up [from clown]
20:35:03 <clown1> issue-673
20:35:03 <trackbot> issue-673 -- Need standard way to distinguish data tables from layout tables -- closed
20:35:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/673
20:35:06 <joanie> JS: Someone raised this issue in tracker.
20:35:26 <joanie> JS: About the need to distinguish data tables from layout tables.
20:35:37 <joanie> JS: Cynthia is the one who raised it.
20:35:39 <clown1> https://github.com/w3c/html-aam/issues/83
20:35:44 <joanie> JS: We moved it to github issue 83.
20:35:58 <joanie> JS: It spawned a bit of a discussion from Matt King.
20:36:27 <joanie> JS: And I closed it out from Core AAM.
20:36:38 <joanie> RS: What is this important?
20:38:43 <joanie> JS: Cynthia noticed that user agents do different things when determining whether or not a table is a layout table.
20:38:53 <joanie> RS: AT Vendors have been doing this for years.
20:39:12 <joanie> JD: They shouldn't have to though. And user agents are already doing things in this regard.
20:39:29 <joanie> JD: For instance, Gecko exposes an object attribute for "layout-guess"
20:39:31 <clown1> https://w3c.github.io/html-aam/#el-table
20:40:08 <joanie> JD: WebKit exposes layout tables as generic containers; not as tables. So in that case, ATs cannot.
20:40:26 <joanie> Group: Regardless NotOurProblem(tm).
20:40:31 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:40:31 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Triage actions/issues: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23" taken up [from clown]
20:40:50 <clown1> action-2057
20:40:50 <trackbot> action-2057 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Suggest that axapi mapping of role="form" should be a landmark in the AXSubRole. -- due 2016-05-03 -- OPEN
20:40:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2057
20:41:22 <joanie> RS: I don't care if it's alright with the Mac people.
20:41:32 <joanie> JS: The subrole is currently nil; the role is group.
20:42:13 <clown1> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-form
20:42:48 <joanie> RS: If Joanie can get them to do this....
20:43:05 <joanie> JD: It's on my copious-spare-time list.
20:43:21 <joanie> RS: But we don't want to go back to CR.
20:43:41 <joanie> JD + JS: But that's for Core AAM.
20:44:02 <joanie> JD: I want to finish the ATTA work I'm doing because that's needed for *ARIA* to exit CR.
20:44:23 <clown1> action-2117
20:44:23 <trackbot> action-2117 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update core-aam to not expose aria-details relationships that reference elements that are hidden. -- due 2016-09-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:44:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2117
20:44:47 <clown1> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-form
20:45:15 <clown1> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaDetails
20:45:43 <joanie> JS: I have done this and committed it to master (see URL above).
20:45:49 <joanie> JS: Opinions?
20:45:59 <joanie> RS: Can you explain UIA to me for a minute?
20:46:15 <joanie> RS: If it's in the accessibility tree, described-by is an array now?
20:46:18 <joanie> JS: Correct.
20:46:33 <joanie> RS: That's not that old; they used to stringify until recently.
20:46:56 <joanie> RS: What pattern?
20:47:30 <joanie> RS: Also what happened on the Mac?
20:47:39 <joanie> JS: TBD and on Joanie's list still.
20:48:49 <joanie> RS: Link for UIA docs?
20:48:55 <clown1> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee684009%28v=vs.85%29.aspx
20:49:01 <joanie> JS: Link above.
20:49:45 <joanie> RS: This would be on the client side, right?
20:49:53 <joanie> JS: You're asking the wrong person.
20:50:11 <joanie> RS + JS: (Reading docs)
20:50:19 <clown1> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee671425(v=vs.85).aspx
20:50:53 <clown1> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee696005(v=vs.85).aspx
20:51:28 <joanie> JS: The second URL has the right API information.
20:51:33 <clown1> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee671425(v=vs.85).aspx#properties
20:51:47 <joanie> IUIAutomationElement::CurrentDescribedBy property
20:52:40 <joanie> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee671440(v=vs.85).aspx
20:53:01 <joanie> JD: UIA has cached versus non-cached.
21:02:38 <joanie> JS: So I'm going to put "UIAutomationElement" in front of all the described-by references?
21:02:56 <joanie> JD: Did you find that in the server-side docs?
21:03:04 <joanie> JS: Not yet.
21:05:20 <joanie> JD: Then I would not change it without confirmation.
21:18:06 <joanie> Zakim, part
21:18:06 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer
21:18:06 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
21:18:17 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:18:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/07-aapi-minutes.html joanie
21:19:17 <joanie> present+ Richard_Schwerdtfeger Bryan_Garaventa
21:19:20 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:19:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/03/07-aapi-minutes.html joanie
21:19:47 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
21:19:53 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop