IRC log of tt on 2017-03-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
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Zakim, this will be TTML
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ok, trackbot
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
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Date: 02 March 2017
16:00:49 [nigel]
Present: Dae, Glenn, Nigel
16:00:52 [nigel]
Regrets: None
16:00:54 [nigel]
Chair: Nigel
16:01:48 [nigel]
Present+ Pierre, Thierry
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Scribe: Nigel
16:01:59 [nigel]
Present+ Andreas
16:02:16 [nigel]
Topic: This Meeting
16:03:38 [nigel]
Nigel: Today, we have a proposal on meeting times, one IMSC issue and some TTML issues.
16:03:47 [nigel]
.. Any other topics to cover?
16:04:21 [nigel]
Andreas: I'd like to cover the pull request on TTML1.
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Topic: Meetings times
16:05:01 [nigel]
Dae: I think there's enough to talk about between now and the end of the month I propose
16:05:32 [nigel]
.. to start "early", at 10am Boston time, so we can have longer meetings.
16:05:49 [nigel]
Nigel: By the way, DST comes in, in the US, soon, and at the end of March in Europe.
16:06:02 [nigel]
Thierry: I believe it is on the 12th in the US and the 26th in Europe.
16:06:06 [nigel]
Present+ Mike
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Thierry: So there is an impact in Europe, but we are back in sync after March 12th.
16:06:59 [nigel]
Nigel: Dae, I think this is a good suggestion.
16:07:19 [nigel]
Andreas: It's fine for me to start an hour earlier but I cannot allocate 2 hours to the meeting, however this is not a problem if you go ahead.
16:08:42 [nigel]
Nigel: Okay as Chair I'm going to make the call and say we will do this, begin at 10am Boston and set a duration of 2 hours for all the remaining meetings in March.
16:09:00 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC
16:09:17 [nigel]
-> foreign namespace usage is underspecified
16:20:22 [nigel]
Mike: Regarding the example of smpte:information my view is that it is an error in the
16:20:34 [nigel]
.. SMPTE-TT spec, and it should say "descendant" of the head element, with the intent that
16:20:45 [nigel]
.. it be made a child of the `metadata` element under `head`.
16:21:22 [nigel]
Glenn: The reason we put `metadata` everywhere was to support the addition of foreign
16:21:45 [nigel]
.. namespace data, with the exception of the `tt` element on the basis that such metadata
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.. could be placed under `head/metadata`.
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16:35:59 [nigel]
Glenn: It is a bit indirect but if you follow through TTML1 from §3 to §4 to §5 the foreign
16:36:12 [nigel]
.. namespace elements _are_ pruned because their names are not present in the abstract
16:36:15 [nigel]
.. document type.
16:36:29 [nigel]
Nigel: That's an argument contrary to my reading, but I can accept that.
16:36:39 [nigel]
Andreas: That matches my understanding too.
16:38:53 [nigel]
group: [seems to have consensus that foreign namespace elements are prohibited in TTML1 except as children of metadata]
16:39:19 [nigel]
Nigel: My concern for the concrete encoding in IMSC1 is that we may prohibit the addition
16:39:46 [nigel]
.. of vocabulary that is orthogonal to processing defined in TTML and IMSC and that may
16:39:51 [nigel]
.. prevent some useful use cases.
16:40:04 [nigel]
Mike: It seems like an arbitrary syntactical restriction since foreign namespace attributes
16:40:11 [nigel]
.. are allowed - why allow attributes but not elements?
16:40:35 [nigel]
Glenn: That was a deliberate choice to avoid putting TTML namespace elements as children
16:40:40 [nigel]
.. of foreign namespace elements.
16:41:38 [nigel]
.. A clarification may be useful in TTML1 and possibly a normative statement in TTML2 would be advisable.
16:43:23 [nigel]
Nigel: Is everyone except me here comfortable with prohibiting foreign namespace elements in IMSC1 but permitting foreign namespace attributes?
16:43:36 [nigel]
Mike: I don't want to add further restrictions but I think that is what TTML1 says today.
16:43:48 [nigel]
.. I want to be crystal clear in IMSC1, and then we can take up the question in TTML1 and TTML2.
16:45:51 [nigel]
group: Consensus to clarify in IMSC 1 that TTML1 permits foreign namespace elements only in tt:metadata and attributes everywhere, §6.2 of IMSC1.
16:46:04 [nigel]
Pierre: There's already a note referring to structural elements of TTML1, so it could be an
16:46:19 [nigel]
.. extension to that. We may want to go further, or stay silent, I'm not sure which yet.
16:47:03 [nigel]
Nigel: Who will take this action?
16:47:15 [nigel]
Pierre: I will do this, and check in with Mike before posting as a PR?
16:47:24 [nigel]
Mike: I'm relieved of the action from last week.
16:47:42 [nigel]
Topic: TTML
16:48:00 [nigel]
Dae: If anyone is concerned that we cannot meet the TTML2 WR deadline please raise any
16:48:08 [nigel]
.. issues that will block us from getting there.
16:48:28 [nigel]
Pierre: Movielabs' position is that all issues have to be resolved before by WR, either by closing or deferring them.
16:48:45 [nigel]
.. So a priori it means every issue that has not been assigned by consensus to
16:49:17 [nigel]
Dae: For example the issues raised by i18n review.
16:49:28 [nigel]
Pierre: I think anyone in the group can take a stab at resolving those issues.
16:49:43 [nigel]
.. There are some that Movielabs has stronger opinions on but in general it is not possible
16:49:48 [nigel]
.. to defer them en masse.
16:50:59 [nigel]
Nigel: The horizontal review comments should not be ignored but we may be able to address
16:51:08 [nigel]
.. them after WR and before CR.
16:51:17 [nigel]
Pierre: I agree with that.
16:52:43 [nigel]
Nigel: I need to run now but the point is made Dae that we have issues to cover.
16:53:03 [nigel]
Dae: We should focus on the ones that are not 'easy' first.
16:53:23 [nigel]
Glenn: I don't intend to address the HR comments before WR by the way, so we need to
16:53:31 [nigel]
.. discuss what to do about those if there is not consensus on that.
16:53:36 [nigel]
Nigel: Thanks everyone. [adjourns meeting]
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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18:40:23 [nigel]
s/as a PR?/as a PR.
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel