W3C

- DRAFT -

Spatial Data on the Web SSN Sub Group Teleconference

21 Feb 2017

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
kerry, Francois, mlefranc, ahaller2, DanhLePhuoc, roba, RaulGarciaCastro, KJanowic, SimonCox
Regrets
scottsimmons
Chair
Armin
Scribe
Maxime

Contents


<scribe> Scribe: mlefranc

<ahaller2> scribe: mlefranc

approve last week’s minutes https://www.w3.org/2017/02/14-sdwssn-minutes

<ahaller2> +1

<KJanowic> +1

+1

<RaulGarciaCastro> +1

<DanhLePhuoc> +1

<roba> +1

patent call https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

<KJanowic> Armin, do we have a scribe?

<scribe> scribe: mlefranc

Vote on PROPOSAL: Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a derivation of Option 5 several people have already indicated their +1) on wiki: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property

ahaller2: there is a wiki, long discussion in the list
... some discussion on option 5
... as a consequence, new option 6 now,

mlefranc: Options 5 and 6 are not equivalent. In the new one, ssn:Property is a super class of sosa:ObservableProperty

ahaller2: in one option, the old ssn is an equivalent class to sosa:ObservableProperty whereas in option 6, it'"s equivalent to ssn:Property

roba: question about alignment between the old ssn and the new ssn

ahaller2: yes, that's the purpose of ssnx, to align the old ssn with the new

kerry: isn't there some changes here, skos:definition instead of rdfs:comment

mlefranc: I would suggest to use something more precise like SKOS properties

<KJanowic> yes, this is a different issue

mlefranc: explains why I propose to use skos:definition, skos:example, skos:note whenever appropriate

ahaller2: that is not about the vote, that's another issue

<joshlieberman> My understanding is that the annotation possibilities are not mutually exclusive.

SimonCox: we aready discussed that one month ago: we proposed to use skos concepts without importing the skos ontology itself

<KJanowic> lets not rediscuss the use of skos:example, please!

<joshlieberman> Nor do they have reasoning or consistency implications.

ahaller2: we did not make any decision on the use of skos:definition, this will discussed later

kerry: there lacks some rdfs:comment here
... there is new triples in ssnx that were not in the old ssn, like rdfs:isDefinedBy, ... overall I'm ok with this, but all these little changes here I'm not necessarily ok with all of them

<joshlieberman> ^annotation possibilities^annotation properties

ahaller2: let's vote one these options first, discuss the implementation later

<KJanowic> we are voting on the idea/layout/conceptual framework, not on the particular resulting (implementation) code.

<ahaller2> PROPOSED: Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a derivation of Option 5 several people have already indicated their +1) on wiki: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property

KJanowic: let's be clear: we are just voting on the idea here, not the exact terms

+1

<ahaller2> +1

<KJanowic> 0

<joshlieberman> Question: does Option 6 include sosa:ObservableProperty subclassOf ssn:property?

<kerry> +1

<SimonCox> +1

<DanhLePhuoc> +1

<ahaller2> yes

yes

<roba> +1

this triple is in ssn.ttl, not sosa.ttl

<RaulGarciaCastro> +1

<joshlieberman> +1

<SimonCox> See ssn.ttl snippet in https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property#Option_6:_Observable_Property_in_sosa.2C_Property_in_ssn.2C_old_SSN_Property_equivalent_with_ssn:Property

ahaller2: confirms, it's in ssn.ttl, not in sosa

RESOLUTION: Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a derivation of Option 5 several people have already indicated their +1) on wiki: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property

<KJanowic> "sosa:ObservableProperty rdfs:subClassOf ssn:Property ." is in option 6

<ahaller2> ACTION: mlefranc to include the changes for ObservableProperty in SSN, SSNX and SOSA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-268 - Include the changes for observableproperty in ssn, ssnx and sosa [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2017-02-28].

<KJanowic> Can I jump in here for a moment?

<scribe> ACTION: Maxime to implement option 6 in ssn and sosa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-269 - Implement option 6 in ssn and sosa [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2017-02-28].

Resolving of several of the questions in the Actuation proposal for SOSA/SSN as of discussion on wiki: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA

<KJanowic> [see above, can I say something wrt to observableProperty]

subtopic: question 2 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/index.php?title=Actuation&section=3

<ahaller2> sosa:ActuatableProperty

KJanowic: I wanted to mention in the previous topic
... I wanted to be sure that there will be no change to sosa

ahaller2: if it's already like this, there will be no change

<KJanowic> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/index.php?title=Actuation

KJanowic: I changed some options,

# (sorry, I didn't get all of you said jano)

<KJanowic> Example updates, code updates, figure updated to change the property and class name

kerry: actuatable is better than actuable, is more used
... it's still not an english word

<KJanowic> @mlefranc: SOSA:actuatedProperty changed to SOSA:actsOnProperty and SOSA:ActuableProperty changed to SOSA:ActuatableProperty

kerry: we have other words that occur in other ontologies, that may be better. They are listed in the wiki

<KJanowic> language is in flux kerry

ahaller2: it's not in all dictionaries, but in some of them
... let's propose it first, and see how the group reacts

KJanowic: it's usual to create new technical words such as "triplification", I believe actuable is a good property name

kerry: I'd like to suggest actionable property, similar to what the Web of Things group is using

<ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the class that is linked to an Actuation

<KJanowic> +1

<ahaller2> +1

<kerry> -1

<roba> +0

0

<DanhLePhuoc> 0

<SimonCox> 0

<ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of sosa:ActionableProperty for the class that is linked to an Actuation

<Raul> 0

<KJanowic> -1

<kerry> +1

<Raul> +1

<ahaller2> 0

<DanhLePhuoc> 0

<KJanowic> (I agree with the point just made)

<ahaller2> josh: -1

so +1 on actuatable and -1 on actionable

<roba> -1

<KJanowic> Simon has not voted, right?

<ahaller2> sosa:ActuatableProperty 2 +1, 5 0, 1 -1

<roba> can we have a ref link for the def of actionable...

<SimonCox> Need to keep clear the distinction between its potential, and its actual role in an activity or event.

<joshlieberman> Actuatable +1

<SimonCox> Didn't follow Josh's argument

<ahaller2> sosa:ActionableProperty 2 +1, 3 0, 4 -1

ahaller2: for Actuatable that's +3, 4*0 and -1

<joshlieberman> Actionable implies that it promotes action, not that it is the object of action.

ahaller2: for actionable, that's +2, 3*0, -3

<RaulGarciaCastro> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/actionable

SimonCox: if we move back to observe and observable, observable is the potential of being observed, and observe is the existence of some situation where this actually occurs

<KJanowic> <ahaller2> sosa:ActuatableProperty 2 +1, 5 0, 1 -1 ---> should be 3x +1

joshlieberman: actionable means that something external can act on the property to change its value
... whereas actuatable property means that the value can change. Change comes from within, not from the external world

ahaller2: Raul posted a wiki page where he compares how things are being modeled in WoT WG

DanhLePhuoc: the WoT WG is just starting, so they do not use fixed terms for the moment, we should not 100% rely on their choices for our own worlk

<ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the class that is linked to an Actuation

<KJanowic> +1

<SimonCox> +1

<ahaller2> +1

<kerry> 0

<joshlieberman_> +1

<roba> +1

<DanhLePhuoc> +1

+1

<RaulGarciaCastro> 0 (can live with it)

RESOLUTION: Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the class that is linked to an Actuation

<ahaller2> see https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA

KJanowic: we voted on the class Actuatable Property, but we now need to vote the property that links between an actuation and actuatableproperty

<ahaller2> proposal for sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy

<KJanowic> yes

subtopic: question 3 in https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA#Question_3:_naming_of_the_link_between_Actuation_and_xxxProperty

<KJanowic> and then there is one important issue left to discuss where I really need your help

<ahaller2> PROPOSED: Use of sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for connecting Actuation to ActuatableProperty

<KJanowic> +1

<ahaller2> +1

+1

<SimonCox> +1

<kerry> +1

<DanhLePhuoc> +1

<joshlieberman_> +1

<roba> +1

RESOLUTION: Use of sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for connecting Actuation to ActuatableProperty

KJanowic: I'd like now to talk about the link from the class actuator to the property that it acts on

<KJanowic> yes

<RaulGarciaCastro> +1

<KJanowic> I would absolutely try to avoid that (having the same name for two totally different issues)

mlefranc: I do not see a problem with reusing the same name. actOnProperty from actuator to ActuatableProperty, and actedOnProperty from actuation to ActuatableProperty, perhaps?
... Using present and past could be a solution there.

<KJanowic> Okay, lets move on to Q4

<scribe> ACTION: mlefranc to add this specific question in the wiki (question 10) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-270 - Add this specific question in the wiki (question 10) [on Maxime Lefrançois - due 2017-02-28].

<KJanowic> I will add another question for this

kerry: ssn has modeled potential observation, whereas maxime now proposes past tense
... are we thinking now not about potential, but also record ?

<KJanowic> LELts follow the chair and move on to Q4

mlefran: this is exactly my proposal

subtopic: question 4: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Actuation_in_SOSA#Question_4:_naming_of_invoked.2FinvokedBy_vs_madeObservation.2F.3F.3F

<roba> must handle bith potential and result in a consistent way - so scope needs to be both IMHO

KJanowic: vote 4 is simply to vote on what we have already in sosa
... use term trigger, or invoke

ahaller2: I just added these properties, in Lisbon, now there are more options, let's vote

I like option 4

<joshlieberman_> option 4 for me

<KJanowic> I would be in favor of invikedBy but I would be okay with madeActuation

<kerry> I prefer option 1

<KJanowic> sensor?

option 3 is sosa:madeActuation/sosa:madeByActuator and sosa:madeObservation/sosa:madeBySensor

I like option 4

<KJanowic> I would like to strongly object to this bundling

<SimonCox> and comparable for sampling: madeSample/madeBySamplingDevice ?

+1 for Simon

roba: what about option 6, it's not exclusive with the other options

<KJanowic> we didn't want to have subproperties in sosa

<SimonCox> or madeSamplingActivity/madeBySamplingDevice

ahaller2: yes, that's a super property we could additionally use also

<KJanowic> we are talking about actuation now,not observation

<ahaller2> sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy

ahaller2: we are only talking about actuation now

<SimonCox> (but we are making a sideways look at observation and sampling just to see if the patterns hold up)

<ahaller2> PROPOSED: sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy for the property linking Actuation and the Actuator class

<KJanowic> @simonCox: yes, totally fine with that

+1

<KJanowic> +1

<SimonCox> +1

<kerry> 0

<ahaller2> +1

<joshlieberman_> +1

<RaulGarciaCastro> -0.5 (I prefer actuatedBy)

<DanhLePhuoc> +1

<roba> +0

<KJanowic> @RaulGarciaCastro: also fine with me, maybe yours is even better

<kerry> +1 to Raul's comment -- can we reconsider?

me too

ok to reconsider

<ahaller2> PROPOSED: sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuatedBy for the property linking Actuation and the Actuator class

<Raul> +1

<kerry> 0

<ahaller2> 0

<KJanowic> 0

0

<joshlieberman_> -1 sounds like what actuation does to actuatableProperty

<roba> 0

<KJanowic> @ahaller: can you make an action for me to implement the actuation changes before the meeting ends?

<kerry> sugest: actuated/actuatedBy

actually yes, the domain of this property could be anything....

<KJanowic> no, we had a vote

<SimonCox> wordsmithing in a group is painful

<KJanowic> @simonCox: yes, and we had a vote

RESOLUTION: sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy for the property linking Actuation and the Actuator class

KJanowic: please create an action for me to implement this in sosa.ttl

<SimonCox> When can we get to https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Alignment_to_O%26M and https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Sampling ? Both things I was tasked with and followed up on now in limbo. The former should be easy at least?

<ahaller2> ACTION: KJanowic to implement changes based on the RESOLVED proposals in SOSA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-271 - Implement changes based on the resolved proposals in sosa [on Krzysztof Janowicz - due 2017-02-28].

<KJanowic> can we simply do 10min longer today?

<kerry> bye!

<ahaller2> bye

<Raul> BYe

<KJanowic> thanks, bye bye

<roba> bye

# what is the command to generate the minutes ?

<ahaller2> i will do it

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: KJanowic to implement changes based on the RESOLVED proposals in SOSA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Maxime to implement option 6 in ssn and sosa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: mlefranc to add this specific question in the wiki (question 10) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: mlefranc to include the changes for ObservableProperty in SSN, SSNX and SOSA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-sdwssn-minutes.html#action01]
 

Summary of Resolutions

  1. Observable Property in sosa, Property in ssn, old SSN Property equivalent with ssn:Property as of Option 6 (a derivation of Option 5 several people have already indicated their +1) on wiki: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Property_and_Observable_Property
  2. Use of sosa:ActuatableProperty for the class that is linked to an Actuation
  3. Use of sosa:actsOnProperty/sosa:isActedOnBy for connecting Actuation to ActuatableProperty
  4. sosa:madeActuation/sosa:actuationMadeBy for the property linking Actuation and the Actuator class
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.148 (CVS log)
$Date: 2017/02/21 22:33:47 $