16:08:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #alreq
16:08:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-alreq-irc
16:08:50 <behnam> RRSAgent, please draft the minutes
16:08:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-alreq-minutes.html behnam
16:08:52 <behnam> RRSAgent, please set logs world-visible
16:09:02 <behnam> Meeting: ALReq Weekly Meeting, 21 February 2017
16:09:05 <mostafa> present+
16:09:06 <najib> present+ najib
16:09:10 <behnam> present+
16:09:11 <mostafa> ScribeNick: mostafa
16:10:06 <r12a> r12a has joined #alreq
16:10:12 <r12a> present+
16:10:17 <r12a> zakim, who's here?
16:10:17 <Zakim> Present: mostafa, najib, behnam, r12a
16:10:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see r12a, RRSAgent, Zakim, mostafa, najib, behnam, trackbot
16:11:59 <behnam> agenda+ Status review of action items
16:12:10 <behnam> agenda+ Review of GitHub issues and pull requests
16:13:08 <behnam> Chair: behnam
16:13:23 <behnam> agenda?
16:14:04 <behnam> Topic: Status review of action items
16:14:13 <behnam> https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/open?sort=owner
16:15:29 <mostafa> Behnam: Action-84 is done.
16:15:47 <behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/86#issuecomment-279963613
16:15:53 <behnam> close action-84
16:15:53 <trackbot> Closed action-84.
16:17:11 <Shervin> Shervin has joined #alreq
16:17:45 <mostafa> Richard: Re some of the Urdu examples from Khaled in the underline: I’m not sure all of them are underlines.
16:18:14 <mostafa> … They look like normal lines drawn under a title, not necessarily underline.
16:18:37 <najib> I think so
16:21:13 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/16
16:22:20 <mostafa> … In the examply in my link, some lines are underlines and some are not underlines.
16:22:34 <mostafa> … That seems quire common.
16:27:07 <najib> s/quire/quite/
16:29:48 <behnam> Zakim, who's here?
16:29:48 <Zakim> Present: mostafa, najib, behnam, r12a
16:29:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see Shervin, r12a, RRSAgent, Zakim, mostafa, najib, behnam, trackbot
16:30:02 <behnam> present+ Shervin
16:30:59 <r12a> r12a: seems we may need to also describe a requirement for borders to also skip ink
16:33:00 <mostafa> Mostafa: No update on my action item.
16:33:19 <mostafa> Najib: No update on my action.
16:33:39 <behnam> https://www.w3.org/International/groups/arabic-layout/track/actions/open?sort=owner
16:33:57 <mostafa> Shervin: I don’t have any updates on my action items.
16:33:59 <behnam> agenda?
16:34:07 <behnam> Topic:  Review of GitHub issues and pull requests
16:34:25 <behnam> Drafting issues: https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Adrafting
16:36:15 <r12a> q+
16:36:47 <mostafa> q+
16:36:49 <behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/pulls
16:36:53 <behnam> ack r12a
16:36:55 <r12a> q-
16:37:25 <mostafa> Richard: We have two pending pull requests.
16:37:41 <mostafa> Mostafa: One of the pull requests is mine (#89
16:37:48 <mostafa> … and it is still ongoing.
16:37:54 <mostafa> … It is not ready for merge.
16:38:57 <behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/pull/83
16:39:08 <behnam> ack mostafa
16:39:17 <mostafa> Shervin: Najib’s PR is blocked by me. I’ll try to deal with it next week.
16:39:59 <behnam> action Shervin to convert glossary to HTML format
16:39:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-86 - Convert glossary to html format [on Shervin Afshar - due 2017-02-28].
16:41:30 <najib> q+
16:41:54 <najib> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/57
16:42:21 <r12a> q+
16:42:22 <behnam> https://github.com/w3c/alreq/issues/57#issuecomment-280176906
16:42:25 <mostafa> q+
16:42:27 <behnam> ack najib
16:42:31 <najib> q-
16:43:02 <najib> Right repo? https://github.com/w3c/type-samples/issues/12
16:43:28 <Shervin> q+
16:43:36 <mostafa> Najib: I left a comment on the justification issue about tatweel. Not sure if that is the correct place for it.
16:44:07 <behnam> q+
16:45:05 <mostafa> q-
16:45:06 <behnam> ack mostafa
16:45:32 <Shervin> q-
16:45:40 <mostafa> Richard: This is the right place for this discussion. The other repo is for examples only, not discussion.
16:45:58 <behnam> ack r12a
16:46:02 <mostafa> … Also, is it common for softwares to add tatweel for justification?
16:46:27 <mostafa> Mostafa: +1 about the right place for this discussion. Helpful on drafting this section.
16:46:32 <behnam> q?
16:46:37 <Shervin> q+
16:46:53 <mostafa> … I have seen tatweel beeing used on printed works, but I don’t remember seeing a software that does that for justification.
16:46:56 <najib> q+
16:47:19 <mostafa> Behnam: For clarification: tatweel means the Unicode character and kashida means elongating the horizontal lines?
16:47:22 <mostafa> Richard: +1
16:49:15 <mostafa> Behnam: Proper kashida elongation which handles curved lines is implemented in special cases like Quran printing.
16:49:32 <Shervin> -q
16:49:47 <behnam> q?
16:49:56 <mostafa> … But Microsoft Word or Internet Explorer use a line like tatweel for justification.
16:49:59 <behnam> ack behnam
16:50:41 <mostafa> Najib: Microsoft Word uses tatweel only for some fonts.
16:50:52 <mostafa> … For other fonts like Amiri uses only spaces.
16:51:14 <mostafa> q+
16:51:45 <behnam> ack najib
16:51:49 <najib> q-
16:52:39 <mostafa> Mostafa: Does the character that Word adds for justification has variable widths?
16:53:24 <Shervin> +q
16:54:26 <mostafa> Behnam: They use variable widths for this tatweel for kashida.
16:55:06 <behnam> q?
16:55:10 <behnam> ack mostafa
16:55:16 <mostafa> Mostafa: My question is whether we should categorize this implementation as tatweel, or a very basic form of kashida, or something else.
16:55:42 <mostafa> Behnam: We can add a note about this technical implementation.
16:57:01 <mostafa> Shervin: Softwares don’t add characters like tatweel to the text, they just added at the presentation layer.
16:57:15 <behnam> ack Shervin
16:57:25 <Shervin> q+
16:58:28 <behnam> q+
16:59:46 <behnam> ack Shervin
16:59:52 <mostafa> Mostafa: My question is whether to catagorize a variable-width tatweel as using method tatweel or using kashida.
17:00:22 <behnam> ack behnam
17:00:57 <mostafa> Shervin: A definition of tatweel will help with answering these kinds of questions.
17:01:14 <mostafa> Najib: I think we can consider a variable width tatweel as kashida.
17:02:38 <Shervin> http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=%D9%80&B1=Show
17:02:40 <Shervin> q+
17:03:11 <mostafa> … I have question: do we have tests to see if tatweel changes string comparisions and matches?
17:03:17 <mostafa> Richard: I don’t know.
17:03:41 <behnam> RRSAgent, please draft the minutes
17:03:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-alreq-minutes.html behnam
17:04:32 <mostafa> Shervin: Unicode character properties for tatweel recommends ignoring it in searches.
17:05:17 <mostafa> … But the catch is that if you manually add tatweel in your text, you might want it to be found as part of the text.
17:05:43 <behnam> ack Shervin
17:05:53 <mostafa> Richard: But if you add tatweel for emphasis you still want to find it.
17:06:14 <mostafa> Shervin: Yes. But I have not tested this. But the short answer according to Unicode is that it is not ignorable.
17:08:11 <Shervin> q+
17:08:13 <mostafa> Behnam: In Iran Nastaliq font adding tatweel is used for using extended shapes for letters.
17:08:34 <mostafa> … But that is a special implementation.
17:08:56 <r12a> q+
17:09:46 <mostafa> Shervin: I recommend to stay away from calligraphy when talking about justification.
17:10:10 <r12a> q-
17:10:12 <mostafa> … These behaviors are not standard, can be extremes, …
17:10:17 <mostafa> +1
17:10:25 <r12a> +1
17:10:54 <mostafa> … We can stick to typed, monotype style text for these topics and then consider adding edge cases afterwards.
17:11:30 <najib> +1
17:12:05 <behnam> +1
17:13:52 <Shervin> q+
17:13:55 <Shervin> q-
17:14:27 <Shervin> q+
17:14:31 <r12a> q+
17:16:10 <Shervin> q-
17:16:19 <r12a> https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/4839211/23173609/a0c28b52-f851-11e6-9816-fb209f7ca869.jpeg
17:18:49 <behnam> q+
17:18:54 <behnam> ack r12a
17:21:31 <Shervin> q+
17:23:23 <behnam> q+
17:23:24 <Shervin> q-
17:24:00 <mostafa> q+
17:26:28 <Shervin> q+
17:26:37 <behnam> ack behnam
17:26:41 <behnam> ack mostafa
17:26:45 <r12a> q+
17:26:59 <mostafa> q-
17:29:39 <behnam> ack Shervin
17:29:57 <mostafa> q+
17:30:35 <behnam> ack r12a
17:32:19 <mostafa> q-
17:32:39 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:32:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-alreq-minutes.html r12a
17:33:43 <najib> najib has left #alreq
17:34:24 <behnam> RRSAgent, please publish the minutes
17:34:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-alreq-minutes.html behnam
17:35:54 <behnam> s/-q//
17:35:58 <behnam> s/+q//
17:36:01 <behnam> RRSAgent, please publish the minutes
17:36:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/21-alreq-minutes.html behnam
17:52:00 <behnam> Zakim, bye
17:52:00 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been mostafa, najib, behnam, r12a, Shervin
17:52:00 <Zakim> Zakim has left #alreq
17:52:03 <behnam> RRSAgent, bye
17:52:03 <RRSAgent> I see no action items