16:01:31 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 16:01:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-irc 16:01:33 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:01:33 Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y 16:01:34 present+ Kathy 16:01:35 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 16:01:35 ok, trackbot 16:01:36 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 16:01:36 Date: 16 February 2017 16:01:48 chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin 16:04:04 chriscm has joined #mobile-a11y 16:04:05 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3AMATF 16:04:25 TOPIC: proposal about SCs and editors draft 16:05:52 Kathy: going through proposals – picking 10 that are at highest level of maturity to working group by end of day today to be included. Focus of this call to go through those items and see which ones we feel most strongly about. There are a few that we do have pull requests out already. 16:06:27 Kathy: when they going to pull requests they get a new number pull requests already – device sensoris 138 16:07:15 Kathy: other ones are single key shortcuts, touch with assistive technology, pointer gestures, no accidental activation and device sensors, change of content 16:08:10 Kathy: the ones we don't have pull requests on are orientation, target size, pointer, concurrent mechanism (pointer, concurrent mechanism may be can differ for now – will take more significant work to get them finalized) 16:08:28 Kathy: pointers with additional sensors which is the same basically as device sensors 16:08:39 Kathy: also speech input one and noninterference of AT 16:08:46 Jatin has joined #mobile-a11y 16:09:02 Kathy: two I was talking about for Detlev with is 62 and 61, pointer with sensors, pointer with additional gestures 16:09:16 Detlev: I don't have them now but I can't assign myself 16:09:27 Kathy: I can't assign either 16:09:39 +present 16:09:56 present+ 16:09:57 Kathy: the big question is which of these do we feel strongly about putting into the first release and which ones are we okay with not having in there 16:09:57 q+ 16:10:58 Kathy: 10 total – six already have four requests 16:12:12 Kathy: orientation and target size are almost done – 70 and 60. 16:12:42 Kathy: Pointer and concurrent mechanism I don't think we should worry about getting in – significant comments 16:13:53 Detlev: keyboard one – maybe could be covered with note 16:14:13 Kathy: I agree we could say that that one is something that we're going to do later, we visit for silver 16:14:38 Kathy: that leaves us pointer in puts additional sensors, speech 16:15:24 can you please post the SC link? 16:15:27 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/132 16:15:39 Kathy: this is pointer gestures 16:16:28 Shadi: use widget called assignees to assign – are you seeing that 16:16:43 Detlev: for me it looks like read-only information 16:17:26 Shadi: click assignees – I can assign 16:17:27 jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y 16:17:33 present+jon_avila 16:17:50 present+ Kim 16:17:56 q- 16:18:02 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/pull/132 16:18:55 Detlev: tap right next to issues is pull request 16:20:37 Detlev: tricky thing from the testing point of view is you couldn't test this without having a mobile device 16:20:55 Kathy: isn't that no different than having a desktop or laptop to work with a keyboard 16:21:27 Detlev: it changes the game– they have to bring up something on mobile device, maybe several 16:21:50 Kim: it's exactly what we want to encourage 16:22:07 Chris: if you want to support mobile devices you have to test on mobile devices – that doesn't seem like a big issue to me 16:22:35 Kathy: speech input and noninterference with assistive technology those are the two remaining ones 16:22:44 Kathy: noninterference assigned to Josh 16:25:52 Kathy: we've taken out pointer, concurrent mechanisms and keyboard with AT 16:26:32 Kim: should have testers that can look across technologies 16:26:34 Kathy: noninterference – you don't need to be extra with everything 16:27:07 Detlev: like web design isn't using certain keyboard shortcuts because they know it's needed for AT 16:27:26 Kathy: big example here use of role equals application 16:27:33 Detlev: that's one technique 16:28:03 Kathy: we could put this one in and put a note about it being potentially and get people's feedback and asked for a wider thing 16:28:29 Kathy: Lisa had suggested that this could be merged in with standard APIs number 46 16:29:09 Chris: I was reading through standardized APIs 46 – short text at the top doesn't seem to match up but bottom description matches up perfectly 16:31:32 Jon: my feeling is noninterference in there now is narrow so there does need to be something in there. but I do hear people say that the user agent issue. I've run into issues in the past where the page had too many elements so not responsive to AT 16:34:28 Chris: there's very little about speech across the board, where the noninterference just trying to broaden 16:35:19 present+ chriscm 16:35:24 Sorry all, have to drop off! 16:38:01 Single key shortcut alternative Change of content Touch with Assistive Technology Pointer gestures No Accidental Activation Device sensors Orientation Target Size Pointer inputs with additional sensors Speech Input 16:38:26 Kathy: here's the list of 10 16:38:49 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/2 16:39:39 This one has a pull request – David put out there, we looked at it and commented it in the mobile task force. That was included in our 10 because it had a label of mobile in it, but it's not really a mobile one. So we could add noninterference of AT because that is not really a mobile one 16:40:35 Kathy: does anyone have objections to this list of 10? 16:41:30 Kathy: that leaves out pointer, concurrent input mechanism, keyboard with AT and noninterference of AT would be left out – just at this time. they could all get in later 16:41:35 no objections 16:41:45 Kathy: I will go ahead and submit these to Andrew and Josh 16:42:05 Kathy: we don't have anybody doing speech input right now. Jon, could you do the pull request on it? 16:42:26 Jon: I can do the pull request, but not anything else on it 16:43:01 Kathy: Kim and I will try to keep up with comments on it if there are 16:43:21 https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/68 16:43:22 Kathy: speech input number 68 16:45:01 Kathy: is there anything in orientation that's here still outstanding? 16:45:45 Jon: 4 issue was notification of change versus not clouding the issue by putting that in there as well 16:46:27 Kathy: so I think we're in good shape for these 10 16:47:01 Kathy: does anybody have any concerns about comments on any of these 10 16:49:00 q+ 16:49:46 ack me 16:50:12 Kathy: important to look at these as a whole 16:51:51 Kathy: proposal that just came out to put SCs in working draft, marking as such, this would encourage comment 16:52:31 Kathy: what I heard from Andrew is just because something doesn't get into the first public working draft does not mean that it can't be added in later 16:53:07 Shadi: my hope is that it will be linked – there are other ideas out there and maybe include links to github 16:53:29 Kathy: this is one way to move forward. We've got one more meeting before CSUN 16:54:41 Jon: yes – especially if you can also get a link in where other things are being discussed 16:55:15 +1 to a link 16:55:57 Shadi: 2.1.1 keyboard interfaces 16:56:24 s/Shadi/Jatin 16:56:40 Kathy: no change to that. We have success criteria that were proposed relating to touch – touch with AT, target size, pointer gestures, pointers with additional sensors, all related 16:57:12 Jatin: different methods of input – keyboard still applicable? 16:58:35 Jon: we are still requiring that keyboard interface be present – doesn't have to be a physical keyboard. As an example in iOS you can turn on voiceover and turn on speech and iOS has a sticky key feature. By using that voiceover feature you can then access the device with the keyboard using voiceover – proved that it can be done through the keyboard interface even though it's not... 16:58:37 ...supported... 16:58:38 ...without the ATrunning. 16:59:29 Jon: it needs to be there in order to support a wide variety of assistive technologies. We also want to be supported with assistive technologies. multiple interfaces available – you don't have to carry a keyboard – so users can choose what works best for them 17:00:27 Kathy: are we saying we are recommending having a link or an appendix with all the other SCs, or to make a first draft on github so people can comment on them? 17:01:12 Jon: definitely a link – maybe not an appendix. But in my opinion I would like to see a section – here are some ideas – then we could get more feedback. Because a lot of people are not going to follow the link. But I'm not sure there is agreement on that 17:01:50 Kathy: making note about link 17:02:25 Kathy: I'll send out this list of 10 items to Josh. It looks like there's support for this. Thanks for all your help 17:03:59 zakim, list participants 17:03:59 As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, present, shadi, jon_avila, Kim, chriscm 17:04:37 Present+ Detlev, Jatin 17:04:43 zakim, list participants 17:04:43 As of this point the attendees have been Kathy, present, shadi, jon_avila, Kim, chriscm, Detlev, Jatin 17:04:57 rrsagent, make minutes 17:04:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/02/16-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 17:18:57 rrsagent, bye 17:18:57 I see no action items