16:43:46 RRSAgent has joined #apa 16:43:46 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/01/25-apa-irc 16:43:48 RRSAgent, make logs world 16:43:48 Zakim has joined #apa 16:43:50 Zakim, this will be 16:43:50 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 16:43:51 Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference 16:43:51 Date: 25 January 2017 16:46:13 agenda? 16:46:19 agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes 16:46:19 agenda+ Media Accessibility in W3C Specs [See MAUR Redux below] 16:46:19 agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8 16:46:19 agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html 16:46:20 agenda+ APA's Accessibility Checklist [See Below] 16:46:22 agenda+ Input Events http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Nov/0005.html 16:46:25 agenda+ Updating DOM--Any RFEs? https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2017JanMar/0000.html 16:46:28 agenda+ Other Business 16:46:30 agenda+ next and future meetings 16:46:33 agenda+ be done 16:48:56 present+ 16:55:35 Ralph has joined #apa 16:56:58 /me michaelc: EMERGENCY: Can't get in on Webex for APA with 647 857 439 16:57:19 Argh. Webex is misbehaving. The 9 digit code isn't working for me 16:59:01 No go here either via SIP (my usual) or direct dial PSTN 16:59:12 Will try again 17:00:26 present+ 17:01:57 Gottfried has joined #apa 17:02:32 tink has joined #apa 17:02:49 present+ Léonie 17:02:56 present+ Janina 17:02:59 Chair: Janina 17:03:03 present+ me 17:03:11 present+ 17:03:19 zakim, who's here? 17:03:19 Present: MichielBijl, Ralph, Léonie, Janina, Gottfried 17:03:20 On IRC I see tink, Gottfried, Ralph, Zakim, RRSAgent, joanie, ShaneM, janina_, MichaelC, Rossen, MichielBijl, slightlyoff, trackbot, yatil 17:04:20 scribe: MichielBijl 17:04:26 agenda? 17:05:26 zakim, next item 17:05:26 agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina_] 17:05:56 JS: Hope to have Judy here today 17:05:57 present+ Joanmarie_Diggs 17:06:13 are we doing enough? 17:06:17 are there missing pieces? 17:06:21 JF has joined #apa 17:06:59 Welcome Ralph! 17:07:22 Any news or other relevant tidbits? 17:07:47 present+ 17:07:47 LW: We published a new update to HTML 5.2 17:07:48 present+ ShaneM 17:08:02 present+ Judy 17:08:04 Judy has joined #apa 17:08:10 Working draft update, no big milestone, nothing that impacts accessibility 17:08:11 Present+ JF 17:08:23 zakim, next item 17:08:23 agendum 2. "Media Accessibility in W3C Specs" taken up [from See MAUR Redux below] 17:08:56 JS: we did a lot of work to make sure HTML 5 supports everything we can reasonably expect 17:09:21 We went through and came up with all kind use cases 17:09:29 Came up with a notes document 17:09:35 http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/ 17:09:53 That is the basis by which we talked to HTML about how to support it 17:10:10 It should not be a surprise that some of them text 17:10:16 Some of them are binary 17:10:27 Like video or audio files 17:10:35 And some of this is fixed up in use cases 17:10:44 I know we’re listed in a charter 17:10:51 Has just been renewed for another year 17:11:02 Some of the folks there are familiar with what we’re about 17:11:11 In some cases I’m seeing new names 17:11:20 Not sure if they’re aware of what we’re about 17:11:36 In some cases it’s hard to find out what an API is about 17:12:10 There’re enormous opportunities to get this right 17:12:13 Users at home 17:12:17 Educational videos 17:12:26 In a school setting for example 17:12:34 Or even in a movie theatre 17:12:46 HTML should be an inopperable device 17:12:56 s/inopperable/inoperable / 17:13:19 s/inoperable/inter-operable 17:13:46 Make it possible for hearing impaired users to use their smart device to listen to the main track or audio described track 17:14:09 Maybe we have to update the MAUR 17:14:22 We did for visual impaired users 17:14:29 Not sure we did for hearing impaired users 17:14:41 Might have documented some issues, but not the solutions 17:14:46 Q+ to ask if it is the role of the MAUR to deliver "solutions", rather than articulating needs? 17:15:22 You can find plenty of examples where you have subtitles and audio description 17:15:24 q+ 17:15:57 q? 17:16:03 RS: Thank you for inviting me 17:16:08 tdrake has joined #apa 17:16:12 present+tdrake 17:16:17 [Ralph notes http://www.daltonize.org/ for Daltonization] 17:16:32 JF: I’m just curious 17:16:38 You made mention of delivering solutions 17:16:53 Was my understanding that the MAUR was about documenting use cases 17:17:15 ack jf 17:17:15 JF, you wanted to ask if it is the role of the MAUR to deliver "solutions", rather than articulating needs? 17:17:17 ack JF 17:17:22 ack ju 17:17:45 JB: Motivation was to find the support between HTML and ?? 17:18:11 We wanted to achieve a technology neutral document 17:18:32 With of those things in hand it should facilitate the technology options 17:18:50 Until we have that each meeting there is a discussion 17:19:08 WebTT 17:19:16 We noticed that since then there are a couple of groups 17:19:34 That from time to time ?? other APIs 17:19:55 One aspect is colour schemes 17:20:06 Another is flash ?? 17:20:21 LJWatson has joined #apa 17:20:36 s/??/mitigation 17:20:45 q? 17:21:02 We can just capture the colour scheme aspect and the flash mitigation 17:21:06 Happy to tell more about 17:21:08 it 17:21:17 JS: And very important 17:21:26 Also some legal ramifications 17:21:34 Make sure developers are aware of them 17:21:41 What we need to follow through on 17:21:57 Most of us have non real time things in mind 17:22:14 There is the real time world as well that we’re working on 17:22:24 All of them will probably come into play 17:22:32 If we think of an entity like Canada 17:22:37 About some thing 17:22:42 That they would stream 17:22:56 Being Canadian they have to do it in English and French. 17:22:59 s/WebTT/...a debate between which technology better address some user needs, TTML, or WebVTT?/ 17:23:20 But you would also like to support the third scenario 17:23:42 ?? 17:23:51 Also automatically decide which language you need 17:24:03 Not sure WebRTC can do that 17:24:27 s/can do/is appropriate for/ 17:24:38 We don’t have a standardised control 17:24:40 s/That from time to time ?? other APIs/That from time to time work in areas that relate to media accessibility, but without realizing the tie-ins such as the need for APIs, nor the availability of the MAUR doc/ 17:25:07 q+ 17:25:11 q? 17:25:15 JF: I’m struggling to understand what it is we’re trying to achieve 17:25:21 ack jf 17:25:36 JB: There’s still a very active a11y effort in W3C 17:25:44 We’re opparating in different ways 17:25:57 And media a11y issues come up sometimes 17:26:02 In unexpected placed 17:26:44 I think it may be useful to look at this question of where are media a11y opportunities coming up 17:27:11 What would the APA need 17:27:25 We want to drive the support for media a11y support 17:27:37 JF: There have been two specific issues 17:27:39 ?? 17:27:57 The other is about, lost the thread, switching between languages etc 17:28:00 Real time support 17:28:32 That somehow they can choose they can choose which audio stream they want to select? 17:28:36 JS: Yeah, and also video 17:28:39 q+ 17:28:53 RS: The content has to be there 17:28:59 q+ to ask a question 17:29:04 Our scope here is to say the content should be available 17:29:10 And we need the support 17:29:16 for languages 17:29:28 JS: ANd that last point is what APA is running into to 17:29:37 We need to review whether it’s relevant 17:29:46 We know it’s related to audio or something else 17:29:49 s/need the support/need the infrastructure support/ 17:29:51 I spend a lot of time on MEDIA 17:29:57 s/for lang/for users to choose lang/ 17:30:17 We weren’t only talking about real time, but it’s hard to tell sometimes where it fits 17:30:27 Where these APIs fit in the larger picture 17:31:00 For APA one thing that is missing is how to place the APIs in the larger scheme 17:31:12 q? 17:31:14 Sometimes it’s hard to start the conversation on that. 17:31:16 ack ju 17:31:16 Judy, you wanted to ask a question 17:31:24 https://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/#toc 17:31:51 JB: Are you asking hey let’s look at maybe how can we make the document better known? 17:31:58 If you look at the structure of the document 17:32:06 There’re three main sections 17:32:16 1. Summary of Accessible Media Requirements by Type of Disability 17:32:21 2. Alternative Content Technologies 17:32:26 3. System Requirements 17:33:11 *description of these categories, please refer to document itself* 17:33:14 I am still confused. The use-cases Janina has risen seems (to me) to be covered in the MAUR already. For example, the ability to switch language streams should be covered by this: [DAC-3] The user can browse the alternatives and switch between them. 17:33:31 q? 17:33:36 and perhaps this: [DAC-7] During time-based media playback, the user can determine which tracks are available and select or deselect tracks. These selections may override global default settings for captions, descriptions, etc. 17:33:44 JB: I’m thinking maybe coming up with structure questions to focus people’s attention could get us farther 17:33:58 Does that match at all what you’re trying to achieve with this document? 17:34:02 JS: It does for me 17:34:10 JB: John does it help you? 17:34:10 q? 17:34:44 JF: I mean, you brought up a use case, I went and looked at the MAUR, we have two uses cases that fit your issues 17:34:58 JS: I think it might be point 2 and 3 17:35:10 Point 2 is a frequent issue for APA 17:35:22 What we expect a particular API to achieve 17:35:51 What could conceivable be picked up by implementers and the like 17:36:04 Then we start to look at do we ?? 17:36:14 as well as APIs and sofort. 17:36:17 q? 17:36:19 s/sofort/so fort/ 17:36:22 ack ra 17:36:34 RS: John’s question makes an interesting poiint 17:36:40 s/poiint/point/ 17:36:44 s/so fort/so forth/ 17:36:44 As new WG are formed 17:37:18 It’s hard for different WGs to look at APIs and see what the intersections may be 17:37:23 Q+ 17:37:29 If we remind them that the MAUR exists 17:37:55 If there is one thing I would encourage the APA to do 17:38:00 Is to publish an update 17:38:10 Would encourage to stage multiple updates 17:38:21 To get more exposure as you update regularly 17:38:29 q? 17:39:01 ack jf 17:39:09 JF: Want a sanity check 17:39:16 What I’m hearing is we’re talking about two things 17:39:23 1. Perhaps need to revisit MAUR and plug things 17:39:29 2. How do we socialise the MAUR 17:39:34 (within the W3C) 17:39:40 Am I understanding this correctly 17:39:44 JS & JB: Yes 17:39:56 JS: Or a spin off 17:40:08 MAUR 2: Die Harder 17:40:30 JS: Michael should we build this into the checklist? 17:40:38 Think we have an early draft 17:40:44 [publishing an update is one of the ways to socialize the resource] 17:40:46 Doesn’t include media yet 17:40:54 http://w3c.github.io/pfwg/wtag/checklist.html 17:40:54 q? 17:41:22 MC: So, I think in the APA we’ve been expected to come up with user requirements 17:41:28 Yes to similar counterparts 17:41:31 Like payments(?) 17:41:37 Like payments 17:41:59 The centrelised checklist if you scroll down to the fourth big black bar (that’s WCAG fail Michael) 17:42:15 s/centrelised/centralised/ 17:42:26 q? 17:42:58 JB: Are you looking for volunteers? 17:43:00 q+ 17:43:02 JS: Yeah, I think so 17:43:08 q+ to mention relevant ISO standards 17:43:10 A lot of us here are already overcomitted 17:43:37 JB: Iw ould be interested to contribute to ?? and the flash mitigation 17:43:49 GZ: I would volunteer 17:44:02 There are some standards coming up 17:44:14 For example how text is contained in frames 17:44:28 Something we should look at when we revise this document. 17:44:34 JS: Any other thoughts? 17:44:54 RS: Thanks for inviting me and would like to return from time to time 17:45:08 JS: Interested to learn how to socialise the MAUR 17:45:12 RS: One of our big goals 17:45:31 Judy has support from other seniors to spread this around 17:45:39 JS: Going once 17:45:42 going twice 17:45:45 sold! 17:46:11 JS: Michael, a question: are there any new publications? 17:46:24 agenda? 17:46:51 zakim, take up item 6 17:46:51 agendum 6. "Input Events http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Nov/0005.html" taken up [from janina_] 17:47:09 JS: This is a WP set of issues 17:47:14 We lost Rich S. 17:47:19 He was the last to review 17:47:30 We do have some comments from back in November 17:47:40 LW: Did they make it as far as the group working on the spec 17:47:52 JS: They might need some cleanup before we formally put them forward 17:48:04 Not exactly sure how to go about the cleanup 17:48:18 LW: Don’t mind taking a look at them 17:48:59 The group that are working on them have a planned call around 13th of February 17:49:08 I’ll prioritise this 17:49:42 JS: Do you want two weeks? 17:49:46 action: Leonie to move forward from Rich's start re Input Events http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Nov/0005.html due +2 weeks 17:49:46 Created ACTION-2110 - Move forward from rich's start re input events http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-apa/2016nov/0005.html due +2 weeks [on Léonie Watson - due 2017-02-01]. 17:49:54 LW: Yes, won’t be here next week, will try to respond to the list before then. 17:50:24 action-2110 due 2 weeks 17:50:24 Set action-2110 Move forward from rich's start re input events http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-apa/2016nov/0005.html due +2 weeks due date to 2017-02-08. 17:50:32 action-2110: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Input_Events 17:50:32 Notes added to action-2110 Move forward from rich's start re input events http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-apa/2016nov/0005.html due +2 weeks. 17:50:38 action-2110: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Nov/0005.html 17:50:38 Notes added to action-2110 Move forward from rich's start re input events http://lists.w3.org/archives/public/public-apa/2016nov/0005.html due +2 weeks. 17:50:51 zakim, take up item 7 17:50:51 agendum 7. "Updating DOM--Any RFEs? https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2017JanMar/0000.html" taken up [from janina_] 17:51:07 JS: There’re various DOM specs open for review 17:51:14 Do we need to keep bringing this up 17:51:34 SM: Have discussed this with Rich, please keep on the list 17:51:38 JS: Will do! 17:52:01 MC: That’s related to Shadow DOM, are there any other DOM specs we need to track? 17:52:08 JS: All of them 17:52:17 MC: What’re all the DOM specs? 17:53:19 JS: Steve F. send something to the chairs list, can’t find it at the moment 17:53:31 MC: I don’t see it either 17:53:40 Wondering if we’re missing something in our Wiki 17:53:43 JS: I’ll find it 17:53:54 Not right now, but I’ll find it or drop the question 17:54:17 *boom* 17:54:39 zakim, take up item 5 17:54:39 agendum 5. "APA's Accessibility Checklist" taken up [from See Below via janina_] 17:54:51 MC: Don’t feel it has had sufficient review 17:54:57 John has reviewed it 17:55:03 But nobody has made any comments 17:55:22 s/John has/John has accepted to/ 17:55:36 s/nobody has/nobody else has/ 17:56:10 LW: Is it worth asking some people outside the a11y community to get an outside review of it 17:56:42 MC: I’ve had some feedback, that it’s too wordy, needs editorial review 17:56:57 Give a couple weeks for that 17:57:07 And as a second round do what Léonie is suggesting 17:57:11 Not sure where to go there 17:57:20 But might be best to start with groups we work with 17:57:31 Ask them “will this make it easier to work with us” 17:57:43 Maybe the furthest we can go before the AC meeting 17:57:53 After that we can take it to a wider audience for input 17:58:09 JS: John, how much time do you think you need? 17:58:19 JF: Want to get the spreadsheet finished first 17:58:22 How about a week? 17:58:26 JS: Okay that sounds fine 17:58:35 s/fine/good 17:58:37 s/fine/good/ 17:59:14 JS: Calling a CFC will put us all on record 17:59:43 Any other business 17:59:49 zakim, take up item 9 17:59:52 agendum 9. "next and future meetings" taken up [from janina_] 18:00:21 RRSAgent, make minutes 18:00:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/25-apa-minutes.html MichielBijl 18:07:22 Judy has left #apa 18:18:47 Ralph has left #apa 19:22:24 MichaelC has joined #apa