15:45:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:45:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/01/24-wai-wcag-irc
15:45:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:45:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:45:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:45:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:45:21 <trackbot> Date: 24 January 2017
15:45:27 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:45:27 <Zakim> Present: AWK, JF, Laura, Pietro, Kathy, adam_solomon, marcjohlic, Greg_Lowney, Makoto, Lauriat, MikeGower, Jim_S, allanj, kirkwood, David-MacDonald, JohnRochford, Judy, erich,
15:45:30 <Zakim> ... Glenda, Detlev, Joshue108, Rachael, Mike_Pluke, shwetank, NeilMilliken, MichaelC, Wayne, Katie_Haritos-Shea, steverep, Mike, Elledge, jeanne, alastairc
15:45:39 <AWK> Present: AWK
15:45:41 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:45:41 <Zakim> Present: AWK
15:45:53 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
15:45:53 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:45:54 <Zakim> 1. Charter Update/Discussion [from interaccess]
15:45:54 <Zakim> 2. 'Proposal for modifying existing SC'  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/ [from interaccess]
15:45:54 <Zakim> 3. Update from SC managers [from interaccess]
15:45:54 <Zakim> 4. Virtual F2F: Jan 31st [from interaccess]
15:54:42 <Rick_Johnson> Rick_Johnson has joined #wai-wcag
15:55:24 <laura> laura has joined #wai-wcag
15:56:19 <Rick_Johnson> present+
15:56:41 <Rick_Johnson> new to the wcag meetings.... can someone share the webex password?
15:58:02 <interaccess> interaccess has joined #wai-wcag
15:58:19 <interaccess> trackbot, start meeting
15:58:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:58:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:58:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:58:25 <trackbot> Date: 24 January 2017
15:58:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:58:34 <interaccess> zakim, agenda?
15:58:34 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:58:35 <Zakim> 1. Charter Update/Discussion [from interaccess]
15:58:35 <Zakim> 2. 'Proposal for modifying existing SC'  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/ [from interaccess]
15:58:35 <Zakim> 3. Update from SC managers [from interaccess]
15:58:35 <Zakim> 4. Virtual F2F: Jan 31st [from interaccess]
15:59:04 <interaccess> zakim, drop item 4
15:59:04 <Zakim> agendum 4, Virtual F2F: Jan 31st, dropped
15:59:22 <interaccess> agenda+ Virtual F2F: Date TBD
15:59:26 <interaccess> zakim, agenda?
15:59:26 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:59:27 <Zakim> 1. Charter Update/Discussion [from interaccess]
15:59:27 <Zakim> 2. 'Proposal for modifying existing SC'  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/ [from interaccess]
15:59:27 <Zakim> 3. Update from SC managers [from interaccess]
15:59:27 <Zakim> 5. Virtual F2F: Date TBD [from interaccess]
15:59:41 <interaccess> Chair: AWK
15:59:44 <David_MacDonald> David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag
16:00:06 <Lauriat_> Lauriat_ has joined #wai-wcag
16:00:06 <Greg> Greg has joined #wai-wcag
16:00:13 <allanj> allanj has joined #wai-wcag
16:00:19 <Lauriat_> Present+ Lauriat
16:00:34 <Greg> present+ Greg_Lowney
16:00:41 <gowerm> gowerm has joined #wai-wcag
16:00:55 <mattg> present+ mattg
16:01:09 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:09 <Lisa_Seeman> Lisa_Seeman has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:24 <Jan_> Jan_ has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:55 <AWK> Regrets+ Alastair, Srini, Bruce, jim_smith
16:02:23 <Rachael> Rachael has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:38 <Rachael> present+ Rachael
16:02:44 <gowerm> present+ MikeGower
16:03:05 <Lisa_Seeman> i have tried the password 3 times. i seem to be messing it up. Can somone ping it to me
16:03:19 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:21 <gowerm> w3c
16:03:28 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:34 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
16:03:45 <interaccess> s/w3c/
16:03:47 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:50 <JF> JF has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:55 <Kathy> present+ Kathy
16:03:59 <Makoto> present+ Makoto
16:04:01 <JF> Present+ JF
16:04:12 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:59 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #wai-wcag
16:05:00 <Lisa_Seeman> ahh
16:05:05 <shwetank> shwetank has joined #wai-wcag
16:05:08 <kirkwood> =kirkwood
16:05:14 <kirkwood> +kirkwood
16:05:50 <JF> zakim, who's here
16:05:50 <Zakim> JF, you need to end that query with '?'
16:05:57 <JF> zakim,who is here?
16:05:57 <Zakim> Present: AWK, Rick_Johnson, Lauriat, Greg_Lowney, mattg, Rachael, MikeGower, jon_avila, Kathy, Makoto, JF, kirkwood
16:05:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see shwetank, Wayne, Mike_Pluke, JF, Kathy, jon_avila, Makoto, Rachael, Jan_, Lisa_Seeman, JohnRochford, gowerm, allanj, Greg, Lauriat_, David_MacDonald, Joshue108, laura,
16:05:59 <Zakim> ... Rick_Johnson, RRSAgent, AWK, mattg, marcjohlic, kirkwood, MichaelC, Rossen, Zakim, yatil-away, trackbot
16:06:08 <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic
16:06:22 <Lisa_Seeman> Managed
16:06:24 <Wayne> present+ Wayne
16:06:27 <laura> present+ Laura
16:06:32 <Lisa_Seeman> present+ Lisa
16:06:47 <Judy> Judy has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:49 <david_macdonald_> david_macdonald_ has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:56 <Joshue108> present+ Joshue108
16:07:04 <MichaelC> present+
16:07:20 <shwetank> present +shwetank
16:07:40 <erich> erich has joined #wai-wcag
16:07:51 <Mike_Pluke> present+ Mike_Pluke
16:07:52 <AWK> Scribe: Mike
16:07:54 <gowerm> scribe:Mike
16:08:13 <erich> present+ erich
16:08:22 <david_macdonald_> present+ David_MacDonald
16:08:44 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 1
16:08:44 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Charter Update/Discussion" taken up [from interaccess]
16:08:49 <marcjohlic> s/W3C/
16:09:13 <Joshue108> s/Mark/Marc
16:09:40 <gowerm> Rick Johnson was introduced.
16:09:54 <Judy> present+ Judy
16:10:06 <JohnRochford> present+
16:10:56 <steverep> steverep has joined #wai-wcag
16:11:00 <MichaelC> present+ Shwetank_Dixit
16:11:19 <gowerm> Shwetank Dixit was introduced.
16:11:26 <steverep> present+steverep
16:11:37 <david_macdonald_> welcome Shwetank
16:11:37 <gowerm> zakim, take up item 1
16:11:37 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Charter Update/Discussion" taken up [from interaccess]
16:11:49 <Judy> Judy has joined #wai-wcag
16:11:51 <Glenda> Glenda has joined #wai-wcag
16:11:55 <Joshue108> http://awkawk.github.io/ag-charter.html
16:12:23 <MichaelC> ^ Proposed revised charter with changes
16:13:14 <jon_avila> What happens if the one org won't drop their formal objection until they get what they want?
16:15:16 <gowerm> Andrew K: Big issue we have right now is around the incubation topic for what we're calling Silver.
16:15:37 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
16:15:44 <MoeKraft> present+ MoeKraft
16:15:47 <KimD> KimD has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:18 <gowerm> Andrew K: Hope to wrap up discussion within the week.
16:17:19 <gowerm> Andrew K: additions to charter are surrounded by add tags and are in orange
16:17:39 <Lisa_Seeman> q+
16:18:22 <Judy> q+
16:18:51 <KimD> +KimD
16:18:53 <AWK> ack ju
16:20:05 <gowerm> Judy: Clarifies the weighting. Is there strong overall support? Are there well thought out reasons for unresolved matters?
16:20:09 <jon_avila> thanks
16:20:45 <gowerm> Andrew K: Does the w3c have facts about charters?
16:22:07 <Joshue108> q?
16:22:11 <gowerm> Judy: W3c encouraged lively discussions about charters in last couple of years. There is more of a risk of formal objections, so it's not unusual.
16:22:14 <AWK> ack lisa
16:23:26 <gowerm> Lisa S: We may find we are unable to do what we want. Proposes an extension model be put in charter.
16:24:29 <Joshue108> q+
16:25:08 <Joshue108> -q
16:25:20 <gowerm> Andrew: Too late to alter tactic. It is unlikely that everything any task force wants will get in. There will be additional work down the road.
16:26:19 <AWK> ack j
16:27:01 <gowerm> Josh: Concurs. Too late to alter course.
16:28:33 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 2
16:28:33 <Zakim> agendum 2. "'Proposal for modifying existing SC'  https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/" taken up [from interaccess]
16:28:35 <gowerm> zakim, next item
16:28:35 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, gowerm
16:28:56 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ModifySCs/results
16:29:26 <gowerm> TOPIC 2: Proposal for modifying existing SC
16:29:50 <Judy> Judy has left #wai-wcag
16:30:09 <gowerm> s/TOPIC 2/TOPIC 1
16:30:33 <Lisa_Seeman> Q+
16:30:53 <gowerm> Andrew: In a month, we'll have a better idea of interference with existing SC language.
16:31:26 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
16:32:15 <gowerm> Andrew: Reviewed results., 20 people agreed with proposal. A few people say no changes at all. 6 say consider now.
16:32:31 <AWK> ack lisa
16:33:06 <gowerm> Lisa: Wants clarity on proposals that are modified SC.
16:33:29 <gowerm> +1
16:35:17 <gowerm> Andrew: Uses 1.4.8 as example. Proposal to modify a few points and add one. Recommends making a new SC with the one bullet and then some redundant information for what has changed.
16:35:44 <Pietro> Pietro has joined #wai-wcag
16:36:31 <Joshue108> q?
16:37:24 <Pietro> present+ Pietro
16:37:28 <gowerm> Lisa: Wants clarification on what SC need to address. Example of time out she gave last week, where it is almost exactly the same. Do you write Redundant?
16:37:34 <Joshue108> q+ to say we must apply common sense to the architecture of 2.1
16:37:51 <Pietro> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:37:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html Pietro
16:39:05 <gowerm> Andrew: Uses an example of changing colour contrast to 5:1. Attach a note saying "Similar to SC ___ " but should be drafted as a standalone SC.
16:39:38 <gowerm> q+
16:41:48 <AWK> ack mike
16:42:03 <JF> Q+
16:42:25 <david_macdonald> david_macdonald has joined #wai-wcag
16:42:52 <gowerm> Mike Pluke: Example of migrating from AAA to AA by making an exception. Two factors: few require AAA, but even if they did, it would have a more restricted scope, so automatically met.
16:42:55 <david_macdonald> Present+ david_macdonald
16:43:39 <Joshue108> ack me
16:43:39 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say we must apply common sense to the architecture of 2.1
16:44:38 <gowerm> Josh: Need to apply common sense to architecture of 2.1. Need to be aware of potential to change existing language. But that is a big deal.
16:45:12 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
16:45:43 <AWK> q+ to say that some SC (e.g. 2.4.4 and 2.4.9 already exist with only an exception differentiating them)
16:47:04 <AWK> ack gow
16:47:34 <AWK> gowerm: trying to review SC, and it is hard when a rewrite is needed
16:48:00 <david_macdonald> q+
16:48:14 <AWK> ack jf
16:48:20 <Joshue108> s/. But that is a big deal./ the potential for us to do that, is a big deal and I'd like to group to digest that.
16:49:11 <JF> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.1_SC_Numbering#Non-Specific_Feedback
16:49:34 <gowerm> David: looking at architecture is crucial. Adoption and transition path is important.
16:49:56 <AWK> ack awk
16:49:56 <Zakim> AWK, you wanted to say that some SC (e.g. 2.4.4 and 2.4.9 already exist with only an exception differentiating them)
16:50:12 <Joshue108> q?
16:50:34 <JF> s/David: looking at architecture/JF: looking at architecture
16:51:17 <gowerm> Andrew: we already have SC where the difference is an exception. 2.4.4 versus 2.4.9. AA has exception, AAA is broader.
16:51:30 <david_macdonald> 1.2.2 and 1.2.4 Captions prerecorded and live
16:52:13 <david_macdonald> 1.2.3 and 1.2.7 audio description has an alternative a level A no option on AA
16:52:34 <gowerm> Andrew: Concerns around usability can be addressed afterwards.
16:53:03 <david_macdonald> 1.4.5 images of text and 1.4.9 Images of text no exceiption.
16:53:31 <gowerm> Andrew: Request was new candidates be brought in as new items, not modifications.
16:53:37 <david_macdonald> 2.2.1 timing adjustable, and 2.2.3 no timing
16:54:13 <Joshue108> +1 to AWK
16:54:28 <david_macdonald> 2.4.4 link text and 2.4.9 no exception
16:56:18 <erich> Hi All - sorry had hard stop, will provide my SC Mgr updates (74 text color, 76 printing customized text, 79 font family) to the list
16:57:20 <AWK> ack david
16:58:27 <Lisa_Seeman> Q+
16:58:36 <JF> Q+ to voice strong opposition to "replace"
16:58:43 <gowerm> David: Repeat the SC with the added language and include a note.
16:58:47 <AWK> ack lisa
16:59:37 <AWK> ack jf
16:59:37 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to voice strong opposition to "replace"
17:00:18 <AWK> AWK thinks that David was talking about "repeat and replace"
17:00:28 <jon_avila> extend
17:00:38 <Mike_Elledge> +1
17:01:25 <gowerm> Michael: We can give the same number to something different in 2.1 as opposed to 2.0. 2.2.2 in 2.0 may be different than 2.0 in 2.1
17:02:02 <gowerm> Michael: As we are creating the things, we always have the additions and deductions tracked, and you have all changes documented.
17:02:25 <gowerm> s/things/criiteria
17:03:14 <gowerm> Michael: Suggests leaving numbering off the first version.
17:04:56 <AWK> q?
17:04:58 <gowerm> q+
17:05:06 <AWK> ack g
17:07:17 <Lisa_Seeman> Q+
17:09:06 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
17:09:34 <AWK> ack lisa
17:09:43 <AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag21/issues/51
17:09:48 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
17:10:23 <gowerm> Mike G: So if we are not going to consider modificatinos,  what do we do with the candidates that ARE modifications
17:11:04 <gowerm> Lisa: Change the 1.4.8 and shortname and we can consider it, correct?
17:13:05 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
17:13:18 <alastairc> alastairc has joined #wai-wcag
17:15:30 <gowerm> q+
17:16:47 <JF> a change to an existing SC will (IMHO) necessitate a new SC number, so that orgs can track changes (migration) from 2.0 to 2.1
17:18:46 <AWK> ack mik
17:20:06 <david_macdonald> It appears the new #78 and #58 cover much of #51
17:20:14 <Joshue108> q+
17:20:26 <Joshue108> q-
17:21:29 <Lisa_Seeman> Ack lisa
17:21:58 <AWK> ack gow
17:22:02 <AWK> ack jos
17:22:41 <marcjohlic> +1  would welcome the extra guidance
17:22:59 <JohnRochford> +1 to separate meeting for SC managers
17:23:01 <gowerm> Josh: suggests holding another meeting with SC managers to clarify.
17:23:12 <gowerm> +1
17:23:21 <Lisa_Seeman> +1
17:23:44 <Joshue108> Thanks for the feedback.
17:24:24 <Lisa_Seeman> lets have a quick voat on the call
17:24:34 <Lisa_Seeman> q+
17:24:42 <AWK> ack lisa
17:24:57 <Wayne> +1
17:25:21 <gowerm> Draft RESOLUTION: we will NOT consider modify existing SCs at this point (while draft 2.1 SCs are being worked on) until we see what makes the final cut for this publishing round.
17:25:41 <Lisa_Seeman> -1
17:26:08 <JohnRochford> -1
17:26:13 <kirkwood> -1
17:26:20 <Wayne> +1
17:26:21 <gowerm> Draft 2 Resolution: we will NOT consider modify existing SCs at this point (while draft 2.1 SCs are being worked on) in this round.
17:26:22 <KimD> +1
17:26:24 <JF> +1
17:26:27 <david_macdonald> +1
17:26:28 <marcjohlic> +1
17:26:30 <Jan_> -1
17:26:39 <jamesn> +1
17:26:40 <Mike_Elledge> +1
17:26:45 <gowerm> Draft 3 resolution: we will NOT consider modify existing SCs at this point (while draft 2.1 SCs are being worked on).
17:26:56 <Mike_Pluke> +1
17:27:01 <Makoto> +1
17:27:06 <MichaelC> +1
17:27:06 <gowerm> I've just trimmed off the end language
17:27:09 <gowerm> +1
17:27:09 <Kathy> +1
17:27:12 <JF> +1 for draft resolution #3
17:27:43 <allanj> +1
17:27:52 <jon_avila> +1
17:27:53 <laura> +1
17:28:15 <steverep> -1
17:28:31 <gowerm> q+
17:28:34 <Joshue108> +1 to modifying
17:29:51 <Joshue108> s/+1 to modifying/
17:29:54 <jon_avila> I assume this doesn't preclude us from have the proposed text as a new SC
17:30:24 <david_macdonald> q+
17:30:34 <JF> Q+
17:32:00 <gowerm> RESOLUTION: we will NOT consider modify existing SCs at this point (while draft 2.1 SCs are being worked on). We will set up a time for additional discussion for SC managers.
17:32:14 <JF> ack me
17:32:17 <david_macdonald> to say, this decision would not be the reason for leaving out SCs
17:32:41 <Joshue108> present+ Joshue108
17:32:41 <Mike_Elledge> Present+ Mike Elledge
17:32:42 <laura> present+ Laura
17:32:56 <JF> Q?
17:33:04 <AWK> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:33:04 <Zakim> Present: AWK, Rick_Johnson, Lauriat, Greg_Lowney, mattg, Rachael, MikeGower, jon_avila, Kathy, Makoto, JF, kirkwood, marcjohlic, Wayne, Laura, Lisa, Joshue108, MichaelC,
17:33:06 <jamesn> present+ JamesNurthen
17:33:07 <Zakim> ... Mike_Pluke, erich, David_MacDonald, Judy, JohnRochford, Shwetank_Dixit, steverep, MoeKraft, KimD, Pietro, Mike, Elledge
17:33:13 <gowerm> trackbot, end meeting
17:33:13 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:33:13 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AWK, Rick_Johnson, Lauriat, Greg_Lowney, mattg, Rachael, MikeGower, jon_avila, Kathy, Makoto, JF, kirkwood, marcjohlic, Wayne, Laura, Lisa,
17:33:16 <Zakim> ... Joshue108, MichaelC, Mike_Pluke, erich, David_MacDonald, Judy, JohnRochford, Shwetank_Dixit, steverep, MoeKraft, KimD, Pietro, Mike, Elledge, JamesNurthen
17:33:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:33:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/24-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
17:33:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:33:22 <RRSAgent> I see no action items