14:56:29 RRSAgent has joined #dap 14:56:29 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/01/12-dap-irc 14:56:31 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:56:31 Zakim has joined #dap 14:56:33 Zakim, this will be DAP 14:56:33 ok, trackbot 14:56:34 Meeting: Device and Sensors Working Group Teleconference 14:56:34 Date: 12 January 2017 14:56:52 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Jan/0001.html 14:56:57 fjh has changed the topic to: das agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Jan/0001.html 14:57:17 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 14:57:28 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 14:57:41 Topic: Welcome, scribe selection, agenda review, announcements 15:01:20 Andrey_Logvinov has joined #dap 15:02:39 Present+ Andrey_Logvinov 15:05:26 ScribeNick: dom 15:05:43 Present+ Dominique_Hazael-Massieux 15:06:06 Present+ Wanming_Lin 15:06:54 dom: have activated github digest notifications into list, nobody needs to do anything special 15:07:08 Topic: Minutes approval 15:07:18 Approve minutes from 15 December 2016 15:07:19 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Dec/att-0007/minutes-2016-12-15.html 15:07:20 proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 15 December 2016 are approved 15:07:24 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 15 December 2016 are approved https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2016Dec/att-0007/minutes-2016-12-15.html 15:07:34 Topic: Shelving Network Service Discovery 15:07:35 CfC to shelve completed - https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2017Jan/0000.html 15:07:43 Frederick: CfC completed, WG Note published, home page updated 15:08:00 Topic: Generic Sensor API 15:08:15 Frederick: probably nothing worth discussing without Tobie on the call 15:08:36 ... Tobie was planning to do a bunch of work based on the garbage collection issue that was raised 15:08:47 Topic: Wake Lock API 15:08:53 Dom: reviewed 15:08:57 Andrey: and merged 15:09:07 ... I have started the implementation of the new API in Chromium 15:09:32 Dom: should we ping the TAG to let them know about the refactoring of the API 15:09:38 Andrey: yes 15:09:49 https://w3c.github.io/wake-lock/ 15:10:36 Dom: I'll ping them, putting Andrey in the loop 15:10:44 ACTION: Dom to let the TAG know about the updated Wake Lock spec 15:10:44 Created ACTION-783 - Let the tag know about the updated wake lock spec [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2017-01-19]. 15:11:12 Andrey: note that ReSpec has been updated, raising new warnings 15:11:48 Dom: indeed; my other WG has been affected too; a bit annoyed by that change 15:12:07 ... but can help fixing bugs if anybody needs help 15:12:37 close ACTION-782 15:12:37 Closed ACTION-782. 15:12:44 Topic: Generic Sensor API 15:13:00 Tobie: had a long meeting with the Intel implementors on Tuesday 15:13:32 ... goal is to release generic sensor, ambient light and the motion sensors in the main Chrome version pretty soon 15:13:40 ... which means I need fixing lots of stuff pretty quickly 15:13:46 ... we identified 4 areas that need work: 15:13:57 ... - garbage collection (which is leading to large API change, hopefully by tomorrow) 15:14:23 ... - open privacy & security issues that need non-normative additions (no clear timeframe) 15:15:23 ... - the permission model - but the editor has been on paternity leave, and there are still a lot of fluctuations in it 15:15:58 ... right now you have to add permissions to the main permission api, which isn't great, but not sure we can avoid it for now 15:16:18 ... - reporting mode issue which we discussed last time 15:16:49 ... there are disagreements and lack of clarity on whether there are or will be "push" sensors in shipping devices 15:17:19 q+ to ask about question of pull versus push 15:17:20 ... which might affect whether or not and when developers can set the reporting mode 15:17:41 ... also, there are platforms that make it difficult or impossible to expose sensors properly to developers 15:17:52 ... hoping to tackle those next week, with lots of write-ups 15:18:09 ... Google Devrel has started to make quite a bit of promotion on generic sensor api 15:18:25 ... want to talk with him to see if he can connect me with developers that have strong requirements around this 15:18:32 ... but I first need a solid write up 15:19:05 q- 15:19:17 Frederick: not sure I fully understand the push issue 15:19:38 ... is that a sensor changing under you in how it reports its data? 15:19:44 Tobie: there are a number of aspects 15:20:03 ... I wrote the spec with the goal of shipping a level 1 with a framework on which we can build in the future 15:20:24 ... and that provides an equivalent feature set to existing sensors API (a la device orientation) 15:20:36 ... and fixes the known issues of these APIs 15:20:54 ... one of these issues is to be able to read sensor data immediately, without having to wait for its value to have an initial change 15:21:06 ... and another was to allow setting the polling frequency 15:22:32 ... Now that led me to design an API with 2 reporting models: periodic - for sensors that support it, you'll get back data at the said frequency; ua-dependent - let implementors provide data as it sees fits, typically only when data changes 15:22:53 ... the latter allowing important battery saving 15:24:57 Frederick: I'm hearing not all sensors / use cases are the same, and thus need different APIs 15:25:07 ... how can we manage this under a single API? 15:25:26 Tobie: the polling frequency use cases are strictly useful for the motion sensor API 15:25:44 Frederick: so the generic sensor supports both, and concrete sensors pick one? 15:26:00 Tobie: more specifically, concrete sensors need to specify whether they support periodic or not 15:26:16 ... maybe this could be exposed more distinctly than a simple parameter - will need to think about it 15:26:44 ... in any case, I'm getting feedback that all sensors should allow poll-based reporting 15:26:54 q? 15:27:02 ... my issue is that this prevents battery optimizations 15:28:03 Tobie: I guess "frequency" could be a hint rather than a setting 15:28:39 ... if a hint, it would be down to developers to determine if that provides the needed accuracy for their use case 15:30:37 ... In general, the more we can make decisions at the level of the generic sensor, the better both writing concrete specs and keeping them consistent 15:31:12 ... Another point worth mentioning: there is a new whatwg spec - infra - that specifies a number of abstract data structures 15:31:12 https://infra.spec.whatwg.org/ 15:31:24 ... it makes it easier to spec things consistently 15:31:41 ... I'm relying on a bunch of things specified in there 15:32:09 ... (ordered lists, ordered maps) 15:32:35 ... it helps with using a consistent terminology and algorithms 15:33:08 Frederick: so priority is garbage collection right? 15:33:10 tobie: yes 15:33:17 ... bringing a really large spec change 15:33:32 ... then it will be much easier to close a number of smaller issues 15:34:03 Frederick: how are we doing on the security/privacy sections? we had volunteers to help? 15:34:32 Tobie: yes, so far, it's mostly about threat models which will lead to non-normative additions to the specs 15:34:40 ... e.g. keylogging via accelerometer 15:36:42 Frederick: how can others help you? 15:36:53 Tobie: I need to get back into the spec atm 15:37:37 ... I'll then write up executive summaries of known issues to look for solid feedback from TAG, developers 15:37:43 ... similar to the feedback we got on GC 15:37:57 s/atm/now/ 15:38:07 s/GC/garbage collection/ 15:38:48 Topic: Ambient Light 15:38:55 ACTION-780? 15:38:55 ACTION-780 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to Accept pull request for ambient light -- due 2016-12-08 -- OPEN 15:38:55 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/780 15:39:17 close ACTION-780 15:39:17 Closed ACTION-780. 15:42:23 RRSAgent, draft minutes 15:42:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/12-dap-minutes.html dom 15:42:23 Topic: Adjourn 15:42:32 rrsagent, generate minues 15:42:32 I'm logging. I don't understand 'generate minues', fjh. Try /msg RRSAgent help 15:42:56 s/rrsagent, gnerate minues// 15:43:06 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:43:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/12-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:43:46 Present+ Tobie_Langel 15:44:37 s’s/rrsagent, gnerate minues//‘’ 15:44:42 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:44:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/12-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:47:13 wanming has joined #dap 16:19:06 Andrey_Logvinov has joined #dap 18:11:10 Zakim has left #dap 19:02:34 zkis has joined #dap 21:02:29 zkis has joined #dap