19:46:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
19:46:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/01/10-aapi-irc
19:46:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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19:46:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
19:46:10 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
19:46:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Rich Internet Applications Working Group Teleconference
19:46:11 <trackbot> Date: 10 January 2017
19:48:11 <clown> agenda: this
19:48:44 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-676: (Joseph) Identifying MSAA+IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI actions, interfaces, and relations in the mappings.
19:48:59 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-654/ACTION-2130: (Joanie) Determine if AX API supports description changes.
19:49:24 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-739: (Joseph/Bogdan) UIA mapping for role="heading" without aria-level
19:49:36 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1707: (Joseph) AX API mapping for presentation/none in required owned children.
19:49:45 <clown> agenda+ Review of HTML-AAM (All)
19:49:51 <clown> agenda+ Triage issues/actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/products/23
19:49:59 <clown> agenda+ Triage core-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=Core%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:50:09 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname-aam bugzillas: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=AccName%20AAM&product=ARIA
19:50:19 <clown> agenda+ Triage accname actions: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/26
19:50:24 <clown> agenda+ be done.
19:50:30 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:56:47 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:58:58 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
20:05:00 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
20:05:22 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
20:06:09 <Rich> Rich has joined #aapi
20:06:22 <Rich> overlap with another call
20:06:33 <joanie> scribe: joanie
20:06:50 <Rich> might be 20 minutes
20:07:11 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
20:07:11 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ISSUE-676: (Joseph) Identifying MSAA+IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI actions, interfaces, and relations in the mappings." taken up [from clown]
20:07:23 <joanie> JS: This is something we discussed briefly before the break.
20:07:23 <clown> issue-676?
20:07:24 <trackbot> issue-676 -- Is it useful to identify MSAA+IA2 and ATK/AT-SPI actions, interfaces, and relations in the mappings? -- open
20:07:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/676
20:07:33 <joanie> JS: It is an issue raised by Jason Kiss a long time ago.
20:07:43 <joanie> JS: We've done this work over a period of months.
20:07:58 <joanie> JS: But I thought we should touch base with Jason to be sure he's happy before we close it.
20:08:05 <joanie> JS: So I sent Jason an email off list.
20:08:29 <joanie> JS: And explained that the Joanie and Alex and everyone contacted seems happy with what was done.
20:08:43 <joanie> JS: I sent this email yesterday, so it's not surprising he hasn't replied yet.
20:08:56 <joanie> JS: I am optimistic Jason will agree we can close it, but we'll see.
20:08:59 <joanie> JS: Questions?
20:09:03 <joanie> (None)
20:09:10 <joanie> Zakim, take up next item.
20:09:10 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ISSUE-654/ACTION-2130: (Joanie) Determine if AX API supports description changes." taken up [from clown]
20:09:23 <clown> issue-654
20:09:23 <trackbot> issue-654 -- Add label and description changes to section "State and Property Change Events" -- open
20:09:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/654
20:09:35 <joanie> JS: This also goes back a long time.
20:09:54 <joanie> JS: Certain APIs fire events to notify ATs that there has been a name or description change.
20:10:03 <joanie> JS: The mapping table is in the AccName spec.
20:10:08 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#events
20:10:09 <joanie> JS: Link above.
20:10:18 <joanie> JS: The table is fully filled in except for AXAPI.
20:10:40 <joanie> JS: Joanie has been tasked with action-2130 to see if the mappings are correct.
20:11:03 <joanie> JS: Joanie sent an email to Chris and James from Apple, CCing me.
20:11:52 <joanie> JD: What I did prior to that email is grep through the code because the existing name-related event struck me as bogus.
20:12:08 <joanie> JD: And I didn't find that event anywhere in the WebKit code.
20:12:32 <joanie> JD: I then tested via local layout test to see what events were emitted.
20:12:40 <joanie> JD: And I included my findings in that email.
20:13:43 <joanie> s/were emitted/were emitted for Acc Name and Acc Description changes on the Mac/
20:14:21 <joanie> JD: What I found was that Acc Name resulted in an AXValueChanged notification if the name change was the result of an ARIA property.
20:16:43 <joanie> JD: I found no notification happening for description changes.
20:17:58 <joanie> JS: I am going to leave these actions and we will revisit them.
20:18:02 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:18:02 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ISSUE-739: (Joseph/Bogdan) UIA mapping for role="heading" without aria-level" taken up [from clown]
20:18:15 <clown> ISSUE-739?
20:18:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-739 -- UIA doesn't support heading without level, how should we map role=heading without aria-level? -- closed
20:18:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/issues/739
20:18:16 <joanie> JS: This happened at the last meeting.
20:18:33 <joanie> JS: During triage we came across how UIA maps heading role.
20:18:42 <joanie> JS: Right now, it's a style on a text run.
20:18:54 <joanie> JS: Cynthia wanted to know what to do about aria-level.
20:19:02 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Dec/0039.html
20:19:05 <joanie> JS: She suggested I write Bogdan to see what was going on.
20:19:16 <joanie> JS: I did. The above link is for the email I sent.
20:19:36 <joanie> JS: I've not heard back from Bogdan (perhaps due to the recent holidays.
20:19:37 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2016Dec/0042.html
20:19:50 <joanie> JS: But Stefan responded (see above link)
20:20:13 <joanie> JS: He has concerns about the existing mappings.
20:20:19 <joanie> JS: And provided some examples.
20:20:34 <joanie> JS: It seems like the whole heading thing is a mixed bag.
20:20:57 <joanie> JS: Related aside: Are we going to test IE for ARIA 1.1
20:21:00 <joanie> RS: No.
20:21:14 <joanie> JS: Stefan mentioned he tested in IE, but not Edge.
20:21:23 <joanie> JS: Are we testing Edge for ARIA 1.1?
20:21:25 <joanie> RS: Yes.
20:21:38 <joanie> RS: Edge has some sort of nightly builds available, so we can test that.
20:22:00 <joanie> JS: At some point, I will probably set up a Windows 10 VM with Edge then.
20:22:21 <joanie> JS: If I haven't heard from Bogdan by Thursday, I will ping him and point him at this email.
20:22:34 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:22:34 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1707: (Joseph) AX API mapping for presentation/none in required owned children." taken up [from clown]
20:22:43 <clown> action-1707?
20:22:43 <trackbot> action-1707 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Edit the AXAPI mapping table for roles presentation and none to specify that when applied to tables and lists, the children are exposed as AXStaticText accessibles. -- due 2016-12-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW
20:22:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/1707
20:22:46 <joanie> JS: This is something I did over the holidays.
20:22:57 <clown> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-presentation
20:23:12 <joanie> JS: I've added some notes in the mapping for role presentation for AXAPI.
20:23:36 <joanie> JS: I think this is right, but probably Apple should look it over.
20:23:58 <joanie> JS: I got the text from something Joanie submitted.
20:24:02 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133133
20:24:10 <joanie> JS: See the bug at the above link.
20:25:11 <joanie> JD: Oh, yeah, this thing.
20:40:53 <joanie> JD: I think you can solve this by reversing the contents in each cell.
20:41:25 <joanie> JD: In particular, first mention the rules for exposing WAI-ARIA semantics because that explains what gets pruned and what stays in the accessibility tree.
20:41:52 <joanie> JD: Then follow it with the middle paragraph, because that tells you how to map the stuff you don't prune (AXGroup, ROLE_SECTION)
20:42:32 <joanie> JD: Lastly, put what you currently have at the top (AXStaticText, ROLE_SECTION) because that explains how you expose the actual rendered text.
20:42:53 <joanie> JD: The actual rendered text isn't the thing with role presentation.
20:43:28 <joanie> JD: And we're mapping (or not) the thing with role presentation and any required owned elements (group)
20:43:38 <joanie> JD: The text exposure is almost a "by the way"
20:44:50 <joanie> JS: I think I can rewrite/rework this so that it works for all platforms.
20:44:57 <joanie> JS: But I have some doubts.
20:45:37 <joanie> JD: If you draft something and give me some time (i.e. not right before or during the meeting) to chew on it, I might be able to help you work out anything you are having problems with.
20:45:48 <joanie> JS: Will do.
20:45:58 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:45:58 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Review of HTML-AAM (All)" taken up [from clown]
20:46:18 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-aria/2017Jan/0006.html
20:46:19 <joanie> JS: Rich, you wanted me to bring this up.
20:46:30 <joanie> RS: We need to make sure this lines up with our mappings.
20:46:41 <joanie> JS: The link I just inserted is an email from Léonie.
20:46:51 <joanie> RS: Are we getting close enough to do this?
20:46:59 <joanie> JS: We're missing some AXAPI stuff.
20:47:14 <joanie> RS: I would like an ETA from Apple if possible.
20:50:19 <joanie> https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/LayoutTests/accessibility/roles-exposed.html#L1
20:50:56 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165842
20:53:59 <joanie> JD: So in that case, we don't know the mappings because there's been nothing committed.
20:54:49 <joanie> JD: But when there is a commit to WebKit, there will be an associated Layout Test. And from the Layout Test you should be able to discern the mappings without much difficulty.
20:55:12 <joanie> JS: But the agenda item is about the HTML AAM review; not the AXAPI mappings.
20:55:32 <joanie> RS: When do they need this by?
20:56:35 <joanie> JS: Based on last week's editors meeting, we want the Core AAM done by February.
20:56:56 <joanie> JS: If you want to work on the HTML AAM, great. But I need to focus on the Core AAM.
20:57:12 <joanie> RS: At the very least, we can see if they are pointing to our mappings where they need to.
20:57:24 <joanie> RS: I will try to do that this month. Please assign it to me.
20:58:23 <Rich> https://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-aria-minutes.html#item02
20:58:25 <clown> action:  Rich to review HTML-AAM
20:58:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2131 - Review html-aam [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2017-01-17].
20:58:30 <joanie> RS: The link to the minutes are above.
20:58:38 <clown> action-2131
20:58:38 <trackbot> action-2131 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Review html-aam -- due 2017-01-17 -- OPEN
20:58:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/track/actions/2131
21:04:53 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:04:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/10-aapi-minutes.html joanie
21:06:17 <joanie> present+ Richard_Schwerdtfeger
21:25:14 <joanie> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/463
21:26:52 <joanie> https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/208739/trunk/LayoutTests/accessibility/progressbar-expected.txt
21:28:20 <joanie> https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/LayoutTests/accessibility/progressbar.html?rev=208739
21:29:49 <joanie> https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/LayoutTests/accessibility/spinbutton-implicit-values.html?rev=208739
21:36:46 <joanie> https://w3c.github.io/test-results/wai-aria/all.html
21:44:37 <joanie> https://w3c.github.io/test-results/wai-aria/all.html
21:49:09 <clown> https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues/463#issuecomment-271702519
21:58:47 <joanie> Zakim, part
21:58:47 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Richard_Schwerdtfeger
21:58:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
21:58:56 <joanie> scribeOptions: -final
21:59:03 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop