IRC log of auto on 2017-01-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

23:04:26 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #auto
23:04:26 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-irc
23:08:20 [ted]
scribenick: ted
23:08:44 [ted]
Present+ Ted
23:09:00 [ted]
scribenick: ted
23:09:08 [kaz]
present+ Kaz, Hira, Mike, Patrick_L
23:09:24 [ted]
Present+ Kaz, Hira, Paul, Mike, PatrickL
23:10:12 [ted]
agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2017Jan/0022.html
23:14:17 [ted]
agenda+ Welcome and Introductions
23:14:26 [ted]
agenda+ Overview of the current specification work
23:14:38 [ted]
agenda+ Plan for current specification to official publication by June
23:14:48 [ted]
agenda+ Plan for next specification round including VW ViWi
23:14:57 [ted]
agenda+ Face-to-face meetings for 2017
23:15:07 [ted]
agenda+ Test Framework
23:15:15 [ted]
agenda+ Implementations / Integration
23:15:31 [PatrickLue]
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23:15:35 [ted]
agenda?
23:18:46 [ted]
zakim, take up agendum 4
23:18:46 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Plan for next specification round including VW ViWi" taken up [from ted]
23:19:28 [ted]
PatrickL: I will let you know what PatrickB has been up to. He has an open source test/mock server people can use
23:20:24 [ted]
… we have not been able to do extensive testing yet
23:20:52 [ted]
… we are not sure what to use for testing the web socket subscription part
23:21:24 [ted]
-> https://github.com/wzr1337/viwiServer Mock server code repo
23:21:37 [ted]
-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2017Jan/0021.html PatrickB's note
23:22:27 [ted]
Ted: Peter or Kevin might have some ideas for testing the socket piece
23:23:45 [ted]
Present+ SongLi
23:24:36 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
23:24:40 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
23:24:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-minutes.html kaz
23:26:25 [ted]
Paul: we have some code (at OpenCar) for testing web sockets and think Urata-san said W3C's test framework can do some rudimentary web socket testing
23:26:48 [ted]
PatrickL: we haven't found anything that would let us put in a test suite to go against web sockets
23:27:22 [ted]
Paul: I'll strip out the proprietary pieces and make our socket tester available on github and have received permission to do so
23:28:04 [ted]
Kaz: We also need such a testing framework for VISS as well and think Urata is working on such a module
23:28:12 [ted]
Paul: that is my recollection as well
23:28:34 [ted]
Hira: Urata has already made a test module prototype
23:29:53 [ted]
PatrickL: We have spent some more time looking at VSS as well
23:30:58 [ted]
… when comparing both we have to first have a clear picture of the use cases. Both have their advantages but first be clear on needs and what we are trying to solve
23:33:37 [kaz]
i|Urata has|[ Note that the title of the server spec has been changed to "Vehicle Information Service Spec" (VISS). See also: https://github.com/w3c/automotive/pull/114 and https://www.w3.org/2016/12/20-auto-minutes.html#item02 ]|
23:34:06 [kaz]
present+ Rudi
23:35:42 [kaz]
ted: @@@explanation on TAG, HTTP2, etc@@@
23:37:25 [ted]
Ted asks if VW has looked at VSS at Genivi that VISS refers to
23:37:46 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-vehicle-information-service-20161020 VISS
23:37:52 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/GENIVI/vehicle_signal_specification VSS
23:37:58 [rstreif]
Having tech issues, webex + Linux, used to work, trying again
23:38:49 [ted]
PatrickL: it is a good model for signals data but maybe trying to get a full view of state of vehicle might be a bit counter intuitive
23:39:05 [ted]
… my opinion does not really matter and it would be best to have input from developers
23:39:11 [ted]
Present+ Wonsuk
23:39:33 [rstreif]
@kaz: yes, that's what used to work, now webex is complaining about the OS, I think I have a new kernel, trying audio only.
23:41:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-minutes.html ted
23:41:21 [kaz]
s|@kaz: yes, that's what used to work, now webex is complaining about the OS, I think I have a new kernel, trying audio only.||
23:41:27 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
23:41:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-minutes.html kaz
23:41:51 [ted]
agenda?
23:42:51 [ted]
Topic: OCF Demo
23:43:44 [ted]
Paul: Wonsuk was telling me on the elevator about the OCF demo
23:44:18 [ted]
Ted: Rudi gave the youtube link and broadcast it on Tuesday's call
23:44:19 [ted]
Wonsuk: demo will be running the next 4 days, provides a digital dashboard
23:44:52 [ted]
… we have complimentary apps for ios and android. we have a OCF server providing VISS to complient devices
23:45:08 [kaz]
s/ios/iOS/
23:45:08 [ted]
… we have a smart watch device running on Tizen
23:45:52 [kaz]
-> https://youtu.be/V_r3L1b5qs8 demo video
23:46:00 [ted]
… the android app can track a vehicle real time
23:46:38 [ted]
… Sanjeev has a newer video which I'll run during the showcase in a couple hours
23:47:06 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
23:47:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-minutes.html kaz
23:47:40 [kaz]
Meeting: Automotive WG/BG
23:48:45 [ted]
Present+ Powell
23:50:34 [wonsuk]
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23:51:57 [kaz]
ted: @@2
23:52:44 [kaz]
q+
23:53:16 [ted]
Paul: one thing that came up in the BG as a result of ViWi being made public was it peaked AGL interest
23:53:24 [ted]
… we will be meeting with them here tonight
23:53:41 [ted]
… including them getting more involved
23:54:16 [ted]
Ted: we spoke with them in the past, hoping to engage them. all were in agreement but it didn't get started
23:54:59 [ted]
Paul: GM is trying to go both Android + HTML5. Nissan/Renault and PSA have similar approaches and would be good to get them on board
23:56:00 [urata_access]
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23:56:05 [ted]
… GM has a program that people can use a live vehicle and their app provided they are a registered developer and have a vin number
23:56:53 [kaz]
present+ Urata
00:01:13 [ted]
Ted: I also heard but cannot confirm that SDLink might use VSS
00:01:22 [ted]
[unclear]
00:03:03 [ted]
Paul: I know they are web sockets, Google isn't turning up anything on them and VSS
00:05:17 [kaz]
q?
00:05:27 [kaz]
ack k
00:06:57 [ted]
Kaz: as mentioned in Burlingame, Web of Things WG might be worth talking to
00:07:35 [ted]
Ted: they are doing things fairly differently than either of our approaches. I can see their work sitting on top of ours much like Sanjeev is already doing in OCF
00:07:59 [ted]
Rudi: Sanjeev has been doing this within OCF+Genivi
00:09:00 [ted]
… the OCF bridge provides VSS, and makes the vehicle an OCF object
00:09:49 [ted]
… that brings web expertise, IoT and automotive (Genivi) together
00:11:30 [ted]
Ted: Alan and Dave are going to be meeting with OCF this week as there is interest from both sides in better coordination
00:12:05 [ted]
… I think we should do our own approach and let WoT do the same as OCF and we can focus on bridging
00:12:50 [ted]
Kaz: I should join the OCF meeting
00:15:45 [kaz]
i/I should join the OCF meeting/I'm not suggesting the Automotive group and VIWI need to use the WoT approach, but WoT is discussing interface between server and client for IoT, and there is some overlap. Also they've been working with OCF. I think I should join the meeting with OCF this week as well./
00:15:58 [ted]
s/@@2/a task force working on use cases, comparisons, seek developer and architect input are good steps. i'll start a wiki of notes and send mail next week/
00:15:59 [PatrickLue]
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00:16:26 [ted]
Paul: new charter isn't on wiki, shouldn't we update it
00:16:31 [ted]
Ted: yep
00:16:39 [ted]
https://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/charter-2016.html
00:17:11 [paul]
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00:19:28 [ted]
[discussion of changing spec name]
00:19:42 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2016/12/20-auto-minutes.html#item02 previous discussion
00:21:02 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-vehicle-information-service-20161020/ Server Spec
00:21:31 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/automotive/pull/114 Kevin's issue
00:21:48 [ted]
Kaz: we can change the title [on the spec]
00:22:26 [ted]
… we don't have to update the charter itself
00:23:15 [ted]
Paul: back to the timeline, we hit our initial milestone for VSSS FPWD, next is CR in April
00:24:00 [ted]
Rudi reads definition of Candidate Rec from Process document
00:24:28 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2015/Process-20150901/#candidate-rec Process Doc
00:25:38 [ted]
Paul: what about the client spec?
00:26:07 [ted]
Ted: I suggested Powell pause as I believe Visteon is joining and interested in that piece
00:26:09 [kaz]
q+ to mention we need to update the wiki based on the new deliverables
00:27:28 [ted]
Paul: Powell and Vin.li will be demoing based on their approach and hopefully we will learn more about others' interest soon
00:28:19 [ted]
Powell: server spec changes will dramatically impact the client one. I had to implement a test server in order to work on the JS library
00:28:39 [ted]
Paul: should we start cataloging issues?
00:28:55 [kaz]
+1
00:28:56 [ted]
Powell: I am in my notes. Request ID will make sense
00:29:08 [ted]
… I'll throw some up on issues list
00:30:13 [ted]
Songli mentions running into some similar problems
00:31:24 [kaz]
scribenick: kaz
00:31:52 [kaz]
paul: do we want to have a companion document?
00:32:01 [kaz]
powell: someone should go into the spec
00:32:19 [kaz]
... how to handle ID
00:33:25 [kaz]
... we don't need to add anything but should clarify how to deal with the server spec
00:34:06 [ted]
scribenick: ted
00:34:27 [ted]
Songli: we can make either a simple rudimentary server or a more complicated nuanced one
00:34:41 [ted]
… we may come up with some best practices for implementers based on our experiences
00:35:06 [ted]
Paul: I encourage you both to start submitting issues based on what you are seeing
00:35:23 [kaz]
+1 to start with some guideline/best practice/primer kind of document
00:35:26 [ted]
Powell: everything pretty much works
00:36:22 [ted]
Paul: if we can keep to the timeline for CR in April then we can announce it at the next Genivi AMM
00:36:35 [ted]
… next milestone after that is Proposed Recommendation
00:36:49 [ted]
… three months of handling comments
00:38:08 [kaz]
scribenick: kaz
00:38:47 [kaz]
paul: Viston is joining and interested in the spec
00:39:30 [kaz]
... so we should hold on the work on VIAS (client spec) for a while
00:39:52 [kaz]
... we clearly will have the CR in April
00:40:32 [kaz]
powell: two different approaches on notation, JS vs WebIDL
00:41:32 [kaz]
paul: VIAS has very specific scope and we should stuck with that
00:41:55 [kaz]
rudi: agree
00:42:01 [kaz]
... let's get moving forward
00:42:59 [kaz]
... don't see mutual exclucivity between JS and WebIDL
00:43:53 [kaz]
powell: what is the expectation for implementations?
00:44:44 [kaz]
... mapping messages defined by the server spec to JS?
00:44:55 [kaz]
rudi: good as the starting point
00:46:16 [kaz]
paul: guessing what Visteon is doing is different from our definition but we'll see
00:46:40 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/charter-2016.html Charter
00:46:49 [paul]
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00:46:52 [paul]
https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Vehicle_Information_Service_Specification#JavaScript_Library_Interface_Guidelines
00:47:25 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Vehicle_Information_Service_Specification VIAS requirements
00:47:56 [kaz]
s/requirements/guidelines/
00:48:16 [kaz]
paul: fine with WebIDL
00:49:14 [kaz]
... should put our proposals on GitHub
00:49:23 [kaz]
powell: will do
00:50:09 [kaz]
paul: anybody who can help Powell, please speak up
00:50:39 [kaz]
... next, Urata-san, do you want to share information about Testing?
00:50:52 [kaz]
urata: not much progress since the last meeting
00:51:39 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2017/01/03-auto-minutes.html Jan 3 minutes
00:51:44 [kaz]
paul: anything else?
00:51:53 [kaz]
rudi: meeting plan?
00:52:08 [urata_access]
https://github.com/aShinjiroUrata/web-platform-tests/commits/dev-urata-vsss-test
00:52:19 [urata_access]
this is the starting point of creating test framework
00:52:35 [urata_access]
have some more test cases in my local environment
00:52:55 [urata_access]
going to add test cases according to the test assertion list
00:53:24 [kaz]
-> https://www.genivi.org/ GENIVI AMM on 9-12 May 2017 in Birmingham UK
00:54:17 [kaz]
wonsuk: we need to send emails to the group
00:54:52 [kaz]
kaz: collocated meeting with GENIVI AMM?
00:55:08 [kaz]
paul: collocated meeting and VIWI as a big topic for the BG
00:55:24 [kaz]
s/collocated/two topics, collocated/
00:56:12 [kaz]
q?
00:56:14 [kaz]
q-
00:56:16 [kaz]
q+ hira
00:56:22 [kaz]
hira: one proposal
00:56:39 [kaz]
... I've made a proposal on Implementation Report Plan
00:56:53 [kaz]
... would like to have several issues on GitHub
00:57:19 [kaz]
... want to have separate issues for 4 topics
00:57:32 [kaz]
paul: yes, you should
00:58:38 [kaz]
kaz: yes, if it's easier to handle your issues, you should create those separate issues
00:58:40 [kaz]
paul: +1
00:59:13 [kaz]
rudi: have good press conference and demos at CES!
00:59:16 [kaz]
[ adjourned ]
00:59:21 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
00:59:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-minutes.html kaz
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