23:04:26 RRSAgent has joined #auto 23:04:26 logging to http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-irc 23:08:20 scribenick: ted 23:08:44 Present+ Ted 23:09:00 scribenick: ted 23:09:08 present+ Kaz, Hira, Mike, Patrick_L 23:09:24 Present+ Kaz, Hira, Paul, Mike, PatrickL 23:10:12 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2017Jan/0022.html 23:14:17 agenda+ Welcome and Introductions 23:14:26 agenda+ Overview of the current specification work 23:14:38 agenda+ Plan for current specification to official publication by June 23:14:48 agenda+ Plan for next specification round including VW ViWi 23:14:57 agenda+ Face-to-face meetings for 2017 23:15:07 agenda+ Test Framework 23:15:15 agenda+ Implementations / Integration 23:15:31 PatrickLue has joined #auto 23:15:35 agenda? 23:18:46 zakim, take up agendum 4 23:18:46 agendum 4. "Plan for next specification round including VW ViWi" taken up [from ted] 23:19:28 PatrickL: I will let you know what PatrickB has been up to. He has an open source test/mock server people can use 23:20:24 … we have not been able to do extensive testing yet 23:20:52 … we are not sure what to use for testing the web socket subscription part 23:21:24 -> https://github.com/wzr1337/viwiServer Mock server code repo 23:21:37 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2017Jan/0021.html PatrickB's note 23:22:27 Ted: Peter or Kevin might have some ideas for testing the socket piece 23:23:45 Present+ SongLi 23:24:36 rrsagent, make log public 23:24:40 rrsagent, draft minutes 23:24:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-minutes.html kaz 23:26:25 Paul: we have some code (at OpenCar) for testing web sockets and think Urata-san said W3C's test framework can do some rudimentary web socket testing 23:26:48 PatrickL: we haven't found anything that would let us put in a test suite to go against web sockets 23:27:22 Paul: I'll strip out the proprietary pieces and make our socket tester available on github and have received permission to do so 23:28:04 Kaz: We also need such a testing framework for VISS as well and think Urata is working on such a module 23:28:12 Paul: that is my recollection as well 23:28:34 Hira: Urata has already made a test module prototype 23:29:53 PatrickL: We have spent some more time looking at VSS as well 23:30:58 … when comparing both we have to first have a clear picture of the use cases. Both have their advantages but first be clear on needs and what we are trying to solve 23:33:37 i|Urata has|[ Note that the title of the server spec has been changed to "Vehicle Information Service Spec" (VISS). See also: https://github.com/w3c/automotive/pull/114 and https://www.w3.org/2016/12/20-auto-minutes.html#item02 ]| 23:34:06 present+ Rudi 23:35:42 ted: @@@explanation on TAG, HTTP2, etc@@@ 23:37:25 Ted asks if VW has looked at VSS at Genivi that VISS refers to 23:37:46 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-vehicle-information-service-20161020 VISS 23:37:52 -> https://github.com/GENIVI/vehicle_signal_specification VSS 23:37:58 Having tech issues, webex + Linux, used to work, trying again 23:38:49 PatrickL: it is a good model for signals data but maybe trying to get a full view of state of vehicle might be a bit counter intuitive 23:39:05 … my opinion does not really matter and it would be best to have input from developers 23:39:11 Present+ Wonsuk 23:39:33 @kaz: yes, that's what used to work, now webex is complaining about the OS, I think I have a new kernel, trying audio only. 23:41:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-minutes.html ted 23:41:21 s|@kaz: yes, that's what used to work, now webex is complaining about the OS, I think I have a new kernel, trying audio only.|| 23:41:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 23:41:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-minutes.html kaz 23:41:51 agenda? 23:42:51 Topic: OCF Demo 23:43:44 Paul: Wonsuk was telling me on the elevator about the OCF demo 23:44:18 Ted: Rudi gave the youtube link and broadcast it on Tuesday's call 23:44:19 Wonsuk: demo will be running the next 4 days, provides a digital dashboard 23:44:52 … we have complimentary apps for ios and android. we have a OCF server providing VISS to complient devices 23:45:08 s/ios/iOS/ 23:45:08 … we have a smart watch device running on Tizen 23:45:52 -> https://youtu.be/V_r3L1b5qs8 demo video 23:46:00 … the android app can track a vehicle real time 23:46:38 … Sanjeev has a newer video which I'll run during the showcase in a couple hours 23:47:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 23:47:06 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-minutes.html kaz 23:47:40 Meeting: Automotive WG/BG 23:48:45 Present+ Powell 23:50:34 wonsuk has joined #auto 23:51:57 ted: @@2 23:52:44 q+ 23:53:16 Paul: one thing that came up in the BG as a result of ViWi being made public was it peaked AGL interest 23:53:24 … we will be meeting with them here tonight 23:53:41 … including them getting more involved 23:54:16 Ted: we spoke with them in the past, hoping to engage them. all were in agreement but it didn't get started 23:54:59 Paul: GM is trying to go both Android + HTML5. Nissan/Renault and PSA have similar approaches and would be good to get them on board 23:56:00 urata_access has joined #auto 23:56:05 … GM has a program that people can use a live vehicle and their app provided they are a registered developer and have a vin number 23:56:53 present+ Urata 00:01:13 Ted: I also heard but cannot confirm that SDLink might use VSS 00:01:22 [unclear] 00:03:03 Paul: I know they are web sockets, Google isn't turning up anything on them and VSS 00:05:17 q? 00:05:27 ack k 00:06:57 Kaz: as mentioned in Burlingame, Web of Things WG might be worth talking to 00:07:35 Ted: they are doing things fairly differently than either of our approaches. I can see their work sitting on top of ours much like Sanjeev is already doing in OCF 00:07:59 Rudi: Sanjeev has been doing this within OCF+Genivi 00:09:00 … the OCF bridge provides VSS, and makes the vehicle an OCF object 00:09:49 … that brings web expertise, IoT and automotive (Genivi) together 00:11:30 Ted: Alan and Dave are going to be meeting with OCF this week as there is interest from both sides in better coordination 00:12:05 … I think we should do our own approach and let WoT do the same as OCF and we can focus on bridging 00:12:50 Kaz: I should join the OCF meeting 00:15:45 i/I should join the OCF meeting/I'm not suggesting the Automotive group and VIWI need to use the WoT approach, but WoT is discussing interface between server and client for IoT, and there is some overlap. Also they've been working with OCF. I think I should join the meeting with OCF this week as well./ 00:15:58 s/@@2/a task force working on use cases, comparisons, seek developer and architect input are good steps. i'll start a wiki of notes and send mail next week/ 00:15:59 PatrickLue has joined #auto 00:16:26 Paul: new charter isn't on wiki, shouldn't we update it 00:16:31 Ted: yep 00:16:39 https://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/charter-2016.html 00:17:11 paul has joined #auto 00:19:28 [discussion of changing spec name] 00:19:42 -> https://www.w3.org/2016/12/20-auto-minutes.html#item02 previous discussion 00:21:02 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-vehicle-information-service-20161020/ Server Spec 00:21:31 -> https://github.com/w3c/automotive/pull/114 Kevin's issue 00:21:48 Kaz: we can change the title [on the spec] 00:22:26 … we don't have to update the charter itself 00:23:15 Paul: back to the timeline, we hit our initial milestone for VSSS FPWD, next is CR in April 00:24:00 Rudi reads definition of Candidate Rec from Process document 00:24:28 -> https://www.w3.org/2015/Process-20150901/#candidate-rec Process Doc 00:25:38 Paul: what about the client spec? 00:26:07 Ted: I suggested Powell pause as I believe Visteon is joining and interested in that piece 00:26:09 q+ to mention we need to update the wiki based on the new deliverables 00:27:28 Paul: Powell and Vin.li will be demoing based on their approach and hopefully we will learn more about others' interest soon 00:28:19 Powell: server spec changes will dramatically impact the client one. I had to implement a test server in order to work on the JS library 00:28:39 Paul: should we start cataloging issues? 00:28:55 +1 00:28:56 Powell: I am in my notes. Request ID will make sense 00:29:08 … I'll throw some up on issues list 00:30:13 Songli mentions running into some similar problems 00:31:24 scribenick: kaz 00:31:52 paul: do we want to have a companion document? 00:32:01 powell: someone should go into the spec 00:32:19 ... how to handle ID 00:33:25 ... we don't need to add anything but should clarify how to deal with the server spec 00:34:06 scribenick: ted 00:34:27 Songli: we can make either a simple rudimentary server or a more complicated nuanced one 00:34:41 … we may come up with some best practices for implementers based on our experiences 00:35:06 Paul: I encourage you both to start submitting issues based on what you are seeing 00:35:23 +1 to start with some guideline/best practice/primer kind of document 00:35:26 Powell: everything pretty much works 00:36:22 Paul: if we can keep to the timeline for CR in April then we can announce it at the next Genivi AMM 00:36:35 … next milestone after that is Proposed Recommendation 00:36:49 … three months of handling comments 00:38:08 scribenick: kaz 00:38:47 paul: Viston is joining and interested in the spec 00:39:30 ... so we should hold on the work on VIAS (client spec) for a while 00:39:52 ... we clearly will have the CR in April 00:40:32 powell: two different approaches on notation, JS vs WebIDL 00:41:32 paul: VIAS has very specific scope and we should stuck with that 00:41:55 rudi: agree 00:42:01 ... let's get moving forward 00:42:59 ... don't see mutual exclucivity between JS and WebIDL 00:43:53 powell: what is the expectation for implementations? 00:44:44 ... mapping messages defined by the server spec to JS? 00:44:55 rudi: good as the starting point 00:46:16 paul: guessing what Visteon is doing is different from our definition but we'll see 00:46:40 -> https://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/charter-2016.html Charter 00:46:49 paul has joined #auto 00:46:52 https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Vehicle_Information_Service_Specification#JavaScript_Library_Interface_Guidelines 00:47:25 -> https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Vehicle_Information_Service_Specification VIAS requirements 00:47:56 s/requirements/guidelines/ 00:48:16 paul: fine with WebIDL 00:49:14 ... should put our proposals on GitHub 00:49:23 powell: will do 00:50:09 paul: anybody who can help Powell, please speak up 00:50:39 ... next, Urata-san, do you want to share information about Testing? 00:50:52 urata: not much progress since the last meeting 00:51:39 -> https://www.w3.org/2017/01/03-auto-minutes.html Jan 3 minutes 00:51:44 paul: anything else? 00:51:53 rudi: meeting plan? 00:52:08 https://github.com/aShinjiroUrata/web-platform-tests/commits/dev-urata-vsss-test 00:52:19 this is the starting point of creating test framework 00:52:35 have some more test cases in my local environment 00:52:55 going to add test cases according to the test assertion list 00:53:24 -> https://www.genivi.org/ GENIVI AMM on 9-12 May 2017 in Birmingham UK 00:54:17 wonsuk: we need to send emails to the group 00:54:52 kaz: collocated meeting with GENIVI AMM? 00:55:08 paul: collocated meeting and VIWI as a big topic for the BG 00:55:24 s/collocated/two topics, collocated/ 00:56:12 q? 00:56:14 q- 00:56:16 q+ hira 00:56:22 hira: one proposal 00:56:39 ... I've made a proposal on Implementation Report Plan 00:56:53 ... would like to have several issues on GitHub 00:57:19 ... want to have separate issues for 4 topics 00:57:32 paul: yes, you should 00:58:38 kaz: yes, if it's easier to handle your issues, you should create those separate issues 00:58:40 paul: +1 00:59:13 rudi: have good press conference and demos at CES! 00:59:16 [ adjourned ] 00:59:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 00:59:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2017/01/05-auto-minutes.html kaz 02:07:47 kaz has joined #auto 02:29:36 yingying has joined #auto 05:46:36 yingying has joined #auto 06:39:14 yingying_ has joined #auto 08:59:01 yingying has joined #auto 09:11:27 yingying_ has joined #auto