IRC log of wot on 2016-12-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/14-wot-irc
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13:04:20 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster, Daniel_Peintner, Dave_Raggett, Kirby_Shabaga, Matthias_Kovatsch, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Michael_McCool, Takuki_Kaiya, Uday_Davuluru, Yongjing_Zhang
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13:04:59 [kaz]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_14_December_2016
13:05:57 [kaz]
zakim, pick a scribe
13:05:58 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Dave_Raggett
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13:06:08 [kaz]
zakim, pick a scribe
13:06:08 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Michael_McCool
13:06:29 [kaz]
scribenick: McCool
13:07:42 [kaz]
present+ Debbie_Dahl
13:08:06 [dape]
present+ Daniel_Peintner
13:08:27 [mkovatsc_]
present+ Darko_Anicic
13:08:44 [mkovatsc_]
https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_14_December_2016
13:08:44 [kaz]
present+ Feng_Zhang
13:08:50 [kaz]
present+ Masato_Ohura
13:09:12 [yingying]
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13:09:28 [McCool_]
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13:09:42 [McCool_]
(sorry, my network dropped, may have missed some things)
13:09:55 [kaz]
topic: OCF liaison
13:09:58 [McCool_]
msg from oneM2M to W3C regarding liaison
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13:10:30 [kaz]
s/OCF/oneM2M/
13:10:45 [yingying_]
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13:10:51 [kaz]
Yongjing will forward that message directly to Dave and Kaz
13:11:21 [kaz]
topic: OCF liaison
13:11:46 [McCool_]
OCF Liaison... call this Friday
13:12:02 [yingying_]
present+ Yingying_Chen
13:12:11 [yingying_]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:12:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/14-wot-minutes.html yingying_
13:12:19 [sebastian]
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rrsagent, make log public
13:12:28 [jhund]
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13:12:43 [McCool_]
currently skype, can make another arrangement if necessary
13:13:09 [McCool_]
next: WG charter; Wendy S. WG topic to AC management
13:13:10 [yingying_]
meeting: WoT IG Meeting
13:13:17 [McCool_]
got approval for WG from director
13:13:32 [McCool_]
so, we are done... next steps?
13:13:45 [McCool_]
APA issue has been resolved
13:14:46 [tokuyama]
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13:15:02 [McCool_]
should accept the collab pull request
13:16:00 [DarkoAnicic]
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13:16:05 [DarkoAnicic]
present+ DarkoAnicic
13:16:44 [McCool_]
seem to be some conflicts
13:17:28 [kaz]
present+ Katsuyoshi_Naka
13:18:12 [kaz]
present+ Takeshi_Yamada
13:18:53 [McCool_]
is a conflict in the pull request... number 286
13:19:04 [McCool_]
Matthias will attempt the merge
13:19:19 [kaz]
present+ Keiichi_Tokuyama
13:21:21 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/wot-ig-charter.html WG Charter at the official location
13:21:37 [McCool_]
Kaz will also check details
13:23:31 [McCool_]
all other WG charter pull requests to be closed
13:24:06 [kaz]
s/check details/check details. the point here is that there should not be any difference between Wendy's version and our repo version./
13:24:38 [McCool_]
can run diff tool on version in repo with version used by Wendy to make sure there are not any differences
13:25:34 [McCool_]
also, please accept 271, presentation to OCF; Mozilla issue is resolved
13:26:11 [mjkoster]
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13:28:15 [mkovatsc_]
Wendy, could you send me your version? I will commit it to our repo.
13:28:20 [McCool_]
Wendy made some edits, Matthias to copy into repo
13:29:32 [McCool_]
starting date is date of W3M: Dec 7, 2016
13:30:21 [McCool_]
Kaz working with Wendy for announcement
13:31:09 [McCool_]
Kaz will contact chairs to start planning meetings for WG
13:31:39 [kaz]
topic: F2F
13:32:04 [kaz]
mm: got confirmation within Intel
13:32:18 [kaz]
... will make reservation at Crowne Plaza
13:32:28 [McCool_]
Next: F2F funding has been obtained
13:33:27 [yongjing]
q+
13:33:28 [McCool_]
Feb 5 set-up in the afternoon
13:33:37 [McCool_]
feb 6-9 for event
13:33:51 [McCool_]
invitational day-- the 9th?
13:33:59 [yongjing]
yes not only
13:34:09 [kaz]
ack y
13:34:32 [McCool_]
visa: intel should provide invitation letters
13:35:09 [McCool_]
please contact Ryan Ware for visa letters
13:35:25 [McCool_]
a form would be useful...
13:37:44 [kaz]
the procedure depends on countries, so people are encouraged to check with US embassy in their countries
13:38:13 [kaz]
Yongjing asks McCool to put the info on VISA/invitation on the f2f wiki
13:39:00 [McCool_]
email is ryan dot r dot ware at intel dot com
13:40:20 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_February_2017,_USA,_Santa_Clara f2f wiki
13:43:08 [McCool]
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13:43:31 [McCool]
oneM2M agreement being reviewed, will be distributed when ready
13:44:18 [McCool]
will discuss next week
13:44:32 [McCool]
Next: update on OPC foundation liaison
13:44:45 [kaz]
s/Next:/topic:/
13:44:48 [McCool]
Matthias call with Tom Burke and technical director of OPC
13:44:59 [McCool]
presented what WoT is doing, technical building blocks
13:45:18 [kaz]
i/oneM2M/topic: oneM2M liaison (revisited)/
13:45:23 [McCool]
main take-away: first time encountered another org with holistic framework for protocols, semantics, vocab
13:46:00 [McCool]
they started to integrate companion standards
13:46:15 [McCool]
OPC is pretty powerful... but WoT is perhaps even more
13:46:24 [kaz]
i/will discuss/Kaz has just found the liaison message from the oneM2M contact on the email archive, and will work within the W3C Team./
13:46:31 [McCool]
OPC also started with RPC and optimized for their use cases originally
13:46:49 [McCool]
have not quite figured out how to deal with collaboration with w3C
13:47:15 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
13:47:18 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:47:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/14-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:47:20 [McCool]
will have another meeting with someone at Siemens, discuss roadmap, come up with some actions for liaison
13:47:55 [McCool]
Next: technical work; TD
13:48:16 [kaz]
i/msg from oneM2M/scribenick: McCool_/
13:48:18 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:48:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/14-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:48:57 [McCool]
Next; SA
13:49:11 [McCool]
discussed REST API in charter or not... determined to leave as it is
13:49:11 [kaz]
i/oneM2M agreement/scribenick: McCool/
13:49:24 [kaz]
s/Next; SA/topic: Scripting update/
13:49:29 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:49:29 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/14-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:50:05 [McCool]
will however, put a RESTful definition somewhere; as an informative deliverable under something else, eg. Binding Templates
13:51:00 [kaz]
q+
13:51:18 [McCool]
Could also do a Note
13:51:26 [McCool]
could also do an appendix
13:51:57 [kaz]
i|discussed REST|-> https://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-wot-minutes.html Scripting minutes|
13:51:57 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:51:57 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/14-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:53:11 [McCool]
"REST API is generated from a TD like this"
13:54:32 [McCool]
McCool: an orientation session and a tutorial would be useful
13:54:47 [McCool]
-> consider when doing agenda for F2F
13:54:55 [McCool]
FAQ would be useful as well
13:55:04 [McCool]
had getting started slides
13:55:25 [McCool]
Q&A format is helpful to focus on small
13:55:56 [McCool]
input from newcomers would be useful
13:56:11 [kaz]
q+
13:56:12 [McCool]
how do we optimize onboarding -> let's discuss at F2F
13:56:43 [McCool]
We also discussed the MMI group at SA meeting
13:56:50 [McCool]
Multi-Modal Interface
13:57:04 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-wot-minutes.html#item02 WoT and MMI discussion
13:57:11 [kaz]
s/Interface/Interaction/
13:57:16 [McCool]
how to write a web site with non-standard interfaces, eg speech, specialized I/O devices
13:57:37 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2002/mmi/kaz/images/MMI-as-UI-for-WoT.png interaction between WoT's T2T and MMI's UI
13:57:46 [McCool]
architecture is similar... how can TD and modality components interact
13:58:02 [McCool]
will let us do things like connect to speech recognition etc.
13:58:08 [McCool]
would be a useful demo
13:58:23 [McCool]
proposal to invite MMI people to plenary calls and/or to F2F
13:58:43 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-mmi-arch-20121025/#HTTPTransport MMI lifecycle event transport
13:58:50 [McCool]
academic workshop on WoT... universal descriptions, generate right UI
13:59:24 [McCool]
ex, vision impairment; universal remote controller, person also in APA
13:59:27 [kaz]
i|academic|-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-mmi-interop-20120124/ MMI Interoperability Test (resource for PlugFest)|
14:00:32 [dsr]
Dave notes that on the W3C staff, Shadi Abou-Zahra is responsible for accessibility for the web of things.
14:00:38 [McCool]
Could turn into an umbrella topic: interactions between Users and Things
14:00:40 [mkovatsc_]
q?
14:01:39 [kaz]
ack k
14:01:59 [McCool]
Next: TD
14:02:22 [kaz]
s/Next: TD/topic: TD update/
14:03:00 [ddahl]
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14:03:07 [kaz]
-> w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices.html Auick Start: TD Samples
14:03:18 [McCool]
removed global definitions of endpoint
14:03:28 [McCool]
encode information at a local level
14:03:38 [mkovatsc_]
s/Auick/Quick/
14:04:05 [McCool]
links is more used than endpoints
14:04:29 [McCool]
also use href rather than uri
14:04:50 [McCool]
also introduced a "base"
14:05:05 [kaz]
i/Could turn/Kaz mentions we also invited Michael Cooper from the APA WG to the WoT session during the Web Conf in Montreal./
14:05:08 [McCool]
this is the uri for this TD, valid for all interactions
14:05:20 [McCool]
then hrefs are all relative from that
14:05:31 [McCool]
but... can still use absolute href
14:05:43 [McCool]
overriding base
14:06:27 [mkovatsc_]
q?
14:07:18 [McCool]
this is the "release candidate", please comment as soon as possible
14:07:34 [McCool]
will freeze before Christmas so we have a stable version for the plugfest
14:08:09 [mkovatsc_]
q+
14:09:02 [McCool]
SA: events, still using structure we were using before
14:09:27 [McCool]
is an event example in the quick start
14:09:40 [McCool]
also uses communication meta-data on a local level using links
14:10:09 [mjkoster]
I have comments but my audio is not coming through to the conference
14:10:12 [McCool]
is this enough information to set up stream-based events?
14:10:45 [mjkoster]
have we defined stream based events?
14:10:45 [McCool]
for CoAP, can do Observe
14:11:09 [mjkoster]
What other styles are we talking about?
14:11:17 [mjkoster]
is it ub/sub?
14:11:23 [dsr]
q+
14:11:24 [mjkoster]
pub/sub?
14:11:38 [McCool]
not sure what other styles of event handling can be handled
14:11:55 [mjkoster]
+1 jhund
14:11:56 [kaz]
q+ mjkoster
14:12:14 [mjkoster]
we need one model that expresses thru TD, scripting API, and REST binding
14:12:45 [jhund]
q?
14:12:56 [mjkoster]
my audio is not getting out so I can't unmute
14:13:03 [McCool]
call for implementations? which patterns? still some major work to get eventing right
14:13:25 [mkovatsc_]
ack mkovatsc_
14:14:04 [McCool]
dsr: has been investigating, don't need ALL the information, need "contract" information
14:14:27 [McCool]
should minimize information in TD
14:14:45 [McCool]
dsr: need to identify "driver"
14:15:49 [McCool]
mediaType - the right approach?
14:16:35 [mjkoster]
We can use link relations and all web linking functionality
14:16:41 [mjkoster]
+1 jhund
14:16:44 [mjkoster]
yes!
14:17:01 [McCool]
is some protocols that can negotiate media, and some that can't
14:17:14 [kaz]
q?
14:17:19 [kaz]
ack d
14:17:19 [McCool]
dsr: what is contract platform should use to talk to another platform
14:17:37 [McCool]
dsr: mediaType is wrong level of detail
14:17:44 [mkovatsc_]
q?
14:17:45 [mjkoster]
I have no audio
14:18:17 [kaz]
q?
14:18:21 [kaz]
ack m
14:19:51 [McCool]
mk: agree with web linking direction
14:20:00 [McCool]
web links can point to pub/sub topics
14:20:07 [dsr]
I wanted to state that the thing description needs to provide an identifier that the application platform needs to identify which contract to use to communicate with the remote platform. Details like IETF media types are part of that contract and should not be exposed to the application developer as they are not relevant to the object model that the application developer deals with.
14:20:18 [mkovatsc_]
s/mk: agree/jh: agree/
14:20:31 [McCool]
needs more clarification
14:20:42 [McCool]
p+
14:20:46 [mkovatsc_]
q?
14:20:48 [McCool]
q+
14:22:22 [kaz]
s|pub/sub topics|pub/sub topics. rel can say it's a pubsub topic. link relations can be used for event mapping also. there is common vocabulary around relations, even a baseuri already in common use|
14:22:47 [dsr]
Thanks Michael for the explanation, an example of a contract parameter is the OCF resource type and resource id
14:23:18 [McCool]
McCool: maybe contract defintion with arguments
14:23:25 [kaz]
s/jh: agree/koster: agree/
14:23:32 [McCool]
what we need is a concrete definition
14:23:53 [mjkoster]
hypermedia is a general contract
14:24:31 [mjkoster]
I can hear, but I can'r speak
14:24:35 [McCool]
michael K, dsr, get together and define a concrete proposal for "contracts"?
14:25:14 [McCool]
outer contract, then "inner" format is encoding
14:26:04 [McCool]
dsr: another issue is that "mediaType" has been used for data formats, is already a standard
14:26:11 [mjkoster]
the HTML media type defines quite an interaction model
14:26:13 [McCool]
it is PART of the contract...
14:26:52 [mjkoster]
The OCF media type will also define it's interaction model application/vnd.ocf+cbor
14:27:17 [McCool]
dsr: agree there is a need for a registry
14:27:54 [mjkoster]
I fully support the idea of making TD an extended web linking approach
14:28:09 [dsr]
A registry of identifiers for the contract where the registration includes the metadata parameters involved
14:28:12 [McCool]
can we rely on things that are already "out there" via links?
14:28:26 [mkovatsc_]
q?
14:28:37 [mkovatsc_]
ack McCool
14:28:51 [dsr]
we could of course just use linked data rather than a centralised registry
14:29:05 [McCool]
and can even put parameters in uris...
14:29:31 [McCool]
(above comment from McCool)
14:30:06 [McCool]
Agenda for next meeting: REST discussion, contracts between application and platform
14:30:29 [McCool]
plans for next plugfest; logistics, agenda, etc
14:31:02 [McCool]
procedure for adding agenda items: edit wiki and put it in the "agenda stash"
14:31:51 [mkovatsc_]
q?
14:32:11 [kaz]
[ adjourned ]
14:32:15 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:32:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/14-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:37:03 [jhund]
thx everyone
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