12:01:41 RRSAgent has joined #wot 12:01:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-wot-irc 12:01:49 ying_ying has joined #wot 12:02:49 ddahl has joined #wot 12:03:31 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Debbie_Dahl, Dirk_Schnelle-Walka 12:04:07 jhund has joined #wot 12:04:08 present+ Yingying_Chen 12:04:51 present+ Michael_McCool, Johannes_Hund, Uday_Davluru 12:05:06 davu has joined #wot 12:05:09 Dirk has joined #wot 12:05:24 present+ Johannes_Hund 12:05:31 present+ Zoltan_Kis 12:06:33 McCool has joined #wot 12:06:46 scribecnick: kaz 12:06:53 topic: agenda 12:07:11 jh: Kaz mentioned MMI guys are joining 12:07:59 ... also we have 2 ongoing topics: REST API vs Scripting API, different type of event handling 12:08:09 ... anything else? 12:08:10 (none) 12:08:47 jh: we could start with discussion on collaboration with MMI for Scripting API 12:08:52 ... who is attending? 12:08:58 dahl: Debbie Dahl 12:09:18 jh: did you prepare something for today? 12:09:30 dahl: not really prepared but can provide some information 12:09:36 ... we also have Dirk 12:10:02 ... MMI is focusing on use interface esp. for natural interface 12:10:26 ... kind of abstract event handling protocol 12:10:55 ... high-level coordination between application and user interface including speech interface, gesture interface, camera interface, etc. 12:11:19 ... we keep the interface abstract so that we can use various interface modalities 12:11:47 ... the MMI lifecycle event is theoretically similar to APIs to start/pause/cancel the transaction 12:12:11 ... Dirk, Kaz might want to add something 12:12:14 ... any questions? 12:12:57 ... modality components of MMI has similar concept with WoT servient 12:13:04 q+ 12:13:33 jh: is there any concrete topic for collaboration? 12:13:57 ... this TF is working on Scripting API 12:14:27 ... the interaction model you describe might be similar to what we're working on based on property, action and event 12:14:57 ... would make sense to see which part is similar and which part is different with each other 12:15:30 ... e.g., lifecycle and interface abstraction 12:15:52 ... but seems that it might be too early to point out the concrete similarity 12:16:07 ... can provide a link to our GitHub repo 12:16:50 ... any other questions? 12:16:50 q+ 12:16:51 q? 12:16:52 q+ 12:17:11 ack mcCool 12:17:20 zkis has joined #wot 12:17:32 mm: is MMI on process or already standardized? 12:17:38 dd: already standardized 12:17:45 ... several RECS 12:17:58 ... now we're working on discovery of modality components 12:18:57 ... think semantics of the Scripting API could be a wrapper of the MMI lifecycle events 12:19:28 mm: given your work is a REC, we could think about wrap that mechanism 12:19:39 dd: maybe MMI could wrap TDs 12:20:00 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-mmi-arch-20121025/#LifeCycleEvents MMI Architecture (its lifecycle event section) 12:20:48 dd: and if the Scripting API would wrap the MMI Architecture, semantics of natural language would address what the user wants 12:21:23 mm: wanted to see PoC or concrete mechanism 12:21:34 jh: let's see other questions 12:21:35 q? 12:21:39 ack d 12:21:54 dp: you define interaction model in MMI 12:22:11 ... how do you define codes? 12:22:19 ... which kind of language do you support? 12:22:32 dd: we have generic event handling mechanism 12:22:55 ... also 2 other pieces, e.g., ExtensionNotification 12:23:08 ... all of the events have data field 12:23:39 ... you may send data using that 12:24:19 ... the format of the data is app-specific 12:24:22 olivexu1 has joined #wot 12:24:36 ... in the MMI Architecture, there is an example of XML serialization 12:24:44 ... but you can use JSON, etc. 12:24:49 (EXI as well :) 12:25:18 dp: how to deal with the data itself is app-specific 12:25:27 ... and the MMI Architecture itself doesn't specify that 12:25:29 dd: right 12:26:43 -> https://www.w3.org/2002/mmi/kaz/images/MMI-as-UI-for-WoT.png diagram on the possible relationship between WoT and MMI 12:30:23 kaz: explains the diagram@@@ 12:30:33 q? 12:30:37 ack k 12:30:39 jh: ok 12:31:05 ... MMI mainly focuses on user interface for computer systems 12:31:15 ... this picture is nice to express that idea 12:31:33 ... MMI Interaction Manager handles human input 12:32:26 ... would like to follow up for the IG plenary discussion 12:32:27 q+ 12:33:39 ... how to map the Interaction Manager and the Modality Component could be mapped to WoT Servients 12:34:26 mm: bridging problem? 12:34:44 jh: how does the MMI Architecture interact with outside? 12:35:14 dd: so far we've been thinking about HTTP and WebSocket for transfer 12:35:25 ... is that what you mean by "wired protocol"? 12:35:30 jh: ok 12:35:50 ... MMI over HTTP, etc., is specified? 12:36:00 dd: there is a section within the spec 12:36:46 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-mmi-arch-20121025/#HTTPTransport HTTP transport section 12:36:50 mm: any implementation? 12:37:00 jh: not really public 12:37:49 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-mmi-interop-20120124/ MMI Interoperability Test 12:38:01 mm: very interested in the implementation 12:38:18 ... esp. possible participation in the PlugFest, e.g., during the Santa Clara f2f 12:38:50 jh: people bring their implementations to the PlugFest demo sessions based on the WoT Current Practice document 12:39:23 ... if we could reuse the MMI mechanism for speech interface, etc., it would be very interesting 12:40:13 ... we need to bridge the message between the WoT world and the MMI world 12:40:35 ... if somebody can join the PlugFest we can follow up this 12:41:03 ... we should definitely take input on the lifecycle event part as well 12:41:24 ... is there somebody who bring this to the IG plenary discussion? 12:41:35 mm: do we want to invite the MMI guys themselves? 12:41:38 jh: sure 12:41:52 ... can anybody from MMI can join the IG call? 12:42:22 ... also would be great to have somebody from the WoT group 12:42:41 dd: do you have any idea on concrete messaging? 12:43:00 jh: regarding messages, we have Thing Description 12:43:16 ... Thing Description is serialized version of the data model 12:43:48 ... major resource is on GitHub 12:43:52 https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/scripting 12:44:57 jh: expose thing and consume thing 12:45:09 ... the third part is discovery 12:46:02 jh: there is some proposal as well 12:46:26 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/master/scripting/proposals/jhund-proposal.md Johannes' proposal 12:46:58 jh: consuming things 12:47:11 ... actual messaging is done by the protocol binding layer 12:47:59 ... this is what we've been discussing for the interaction 12:48:08 dd: thanks 12:48:13 ... would like to look into the detail 12:48:27 ... turning on the light, change the color to blue, etc. 12:48:40 jh: ok 12:48:54 ... tx so much 12:48:58 ... any other questions? 12:49:00 q? 12:49:03 ack m 12:49:45 ... would discuss this further during the main call 12:50:08 q+ 12:50:11 topic: Scripting API and REST API 12:50:51 https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/288 12:51:01 jh: there was an issue, issue-288 12:51:19 ... also some discussion on the mailing list 12:51:39 ... do we still need to change the Charter? 12:51:46 mm: I've been thinking about this 12:51:57 ... we could add an item to the Charter 12:52:38 ... Scripting API is logic for applications 12:53:08 ... would make sense to have some API beyond REST API 12:53:24 ... REST API should go under Protocol Binding 12:53:41 ... do we want to add yet another normative deliverable for REST API? 12:53:46 s/do/but do/ 12:53:53 ... myself is reluctant for that 12:54:22 ... personally think we should not make the scope larger 12:54:43 jh: make sense 12:55:02 ... would cause problems if we make the scope broader 12:55:09 s/larger/broader/ 12:55:57 ... we can't change the existing REST APIs but should bind them to the Scripting API 12:56:07 ... so that should be under the protocol binding topic 12:56:22 q? 12:56:41 mm: maybe we can add a topic for REST API but that should be informative 12:57:33 ... but the question is we want to add a section even if it's informative 12:57:44 jh: zoltan? 12:57:58 zk: I'm fine with not modifying the Charter itself 12:58:43 jh: we could decouple the discussion on Scripting API and REST API 12:59:24 ack m 12:59:35 mm: there is already standard API for REST 12:59:51 ddahl has left #wot 12:59:53 q+ 13:00:09 q? 13:00:15 ack z 13:00:20 zk: one question 13:00:32 ... what do we do for this proposal? 13:00:48 ... can we include this to the GitHub repo? 13:01:14 jh: can include the proposal part of the repo 13:01:50 ... (shows the latest draft Charter) 13:02:37 mm: we can discuss this during the main call 13:03:08 jh: will follow up the pull request 13:03:16 q? 13:03:39 ... for the scripting part, we would see the need for some template 13:03:46 ... for REST API 13:03:55 ... but decouple from the Scripting API discussion 13:04:14 ... would add a deliverable for REST API for that purpose 13:04:24 ... we'll discuss this during the main call 13:04:42 ... regarding MMI, we'll have further discussion during the main call 13:04:53 ... bridging between WoT and MMI 13:04:57 ... lifecycle events 13:06:18 kaz: regarding the potential change for the Charter, we need to check with Wendy as well 13:06:24 ... and I'll talk with her 13:08:55 q? 13:10:29 jh: let's briefly talk within the group first 13:10:32 [ adjourned ] 13:10:37 rrsagent, make log public 13:10:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:10:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:28:18 olivexu1 has joined #wot 15:34:07 Zakim has left #wot