IRC log of wot on 2016-12-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-wot-irc
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12:03:31 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Debbie_Dahl, Dirk_Schnelle-Walka
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present+ Yingying_Chen
12:04:51 [kaz]
present+ Michael_McCool, Johannes_Hund, Uday_Davluru
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present+ Johannes_Hund
12:05:31 [kaz]
present+ Zoltan_Kis
12:06:33 [McCool]
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12:06:46 [kaz]
scribecnick: kaz
12:06:53 [kaz]
topic: agenda
12:07:11 [kaz]
jh: Kaz mentioned MMI guys are joining
12:07:59 [kaz]
... also we have 2 ongoing topics: REST API vs Scripting API, different type of event handling
12:08:09 [kaz]
... anything else?
12:08:10 [kaz]
(none)
12:08:47 [kaz]
jh: we could start with discussion on collaboration with MMI for Scripting API
12:08:52 [kaz]
... who is attending?
12:08:58 [kaz]
dahl: Debbie Dahl
12:09:18 [kaz]
jh: did you prepare something for today?
12:09:30 [kaz]
dahl: not really prepared but can provide some information
12:09:36 [kaz]
... we also have Dirk
12:10:02 [kaz]
... MMI is focusing on use interface esp. for natural interface
12:10:26 [kaz]
... kind of abstract event handling protocol
12:10:55 [kaz]
... high-level coordination between application and user interface including speech interface, gesture interface, camera interface, etc.
12:11:19 [kaz]
... we keep the interface abstract so that we can use various interface modalities
12:11:47 [kaz]
... the MMI lifecycle event is theoretically similar to APIs to start/pause/cancel the transaction
12:12:11 [kaz]
... Dirk, Kaz might want to add something
12:12:14 [kaz]
... any questions?
12:12:57 [kaz]
... modality components of MMI has similar concept with WoT servient
12:13:04 [McCool]
q+
12:13:33 [kaz]
jh: is there any concrete topic for collaboration?
12:13:57 [kaz]
... this TF is working on Scripting API
12:14:27 [kaz]
... the interaction model you describe might be similar to what we're working on based on property, action and event
12:14:57 [kaz]
... would make sense to see which part is similar and which part is different with each other
12:15:30 [kaz]
... e.g., lifecycle and interface abstraction
12:15:52 [kaz]
... but seems that it might be too early to point out the concrete similarity
12:16:07 [kaz]
... can provide a link to our GitHub repo
12:16:50 [kaz]
... any other questions?
12:16:50 [dape]
q+
12:16:51 [kaz]
q?
12:16:52 [kaz]
q+
12:17:11 [kaz]
ack mcCool
12:17:20 [zkis]
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12:17:32 [kaz]
mm: is MMI on process or already standardized?
12:17:38 [kaz]
dd: already standardized
12:17:45 [kaz]
... several RECS
12:17:58 [kaz]
... now we're working on discovery of modality components
12:18:57 [kaz]
... think semantics of the Scripting API could be a wrapper of the MMI lifecycle events
12:19:28 [kaz]
mm: given your work is a REC, we could think about wrap that mechanism
12:19:39 [kaz]
dd: maybe MMI could wrap TDs
12:20:00 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-mmi-arch-20121025/#LifeCycleEvents MMI Architecture (its lifecycle event section)
12:20:48 [kaz]
dd: and if the Scripting API would wrap the MMI Architecture, semantics of natural language would address what the user wants
12:21:23 [kaz]
mm: wanted to see PoC or concrete mechanism
12:21:34 [kaz]
jh: let's see other questions
12:21:35 [kaz]
q?
12:21:39 [kaz]
ack d
12:21:54 [kaz]
dp: you define interaction model in MMI
12:22:11 [kaz]
... how do you define codes?
12:22:19 [kaz]
... which kind of language do you support?
12:22:32 [kaz]
dd: we have generic event handling mechanism
12:22:55 [kaz]
... also 2 other pieces, e.g., ExtensionNotification
12:23:08 [kaz]
... all of the events have data field
12:23:39 [kaz]
... you may send data using that
12:24:19 [kaz]
... the format of the data is app-specific
12:24:22 [olivexu1]
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12:24:36 [kaz]
... in the MMI Architecture, there is an example of XML serialization
12:24:44 [kaz]
... but you can use JSON, etc.
12:24:49 [kaz]
(EXI as well :)
12:25:18 [kaz]
dp: how to deal with the data itself is app-specific
12:25:27 [kaz]
... and the MMI Architecture itself doesn't specify that
12:25:29 [kaz]
dd: right
12:26:43 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2002/mmi/kaz/images/MMI-as-UI-for-WoT.png diagram on the possible relationship between WoT and MMI
12:30:23 [kaz]
kaz: explains the diagram@@@
12:30:33 [jhund]
q?
12:30:37 [kaz]
ack k
12:30:39 [kaz]
jh: ok
12:31:05 [kaz]
... MMI mainly focuses on user interface for computer systems
12:31:15 [kaz]
... this picture is nice to express that idea
12:31:33 [kaz]
... MMI Interaction Manager handles human input
12:32:26 [kaz]
... would like to follow up for the IG plenary discussion
12:32:27 [McCool]
q+
12:33:39 [kaz]
... how to map the Interaction Manager and the Modality Component could be mapped to WoT Servients
12:34:26 [kaz]
mm: bridging problem?
12:34:44 [kaz]
jh: how does the MMI Architecture interact with outside?
12:35:14 [kaz]
dd: so far we've been thinking about HTTP and WebSocket for transfer
12:35:25 [kaz]
... is that what you mean by "wired protocol"?
12:35:30 [kaz]
jh: ok
12:35:50 [kaz]
... MMI over HTTP, etc., is specified?
12:36:00 [kaz]
dd: there is a section within the spec
12:36:46 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-mmi-arch-20121025/#HTTPTransport HTTP transport section
12:36:50 [kaz]
mm: any implementation?
12:37:00 [kaz]
jh: not really public
12:37:49 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-mmi-interop-20120124/ MMI Interoperability Test
12:38:01 [kaz]
mm: very interested in the implementation
12:38:18 [kaz]
... esp. possible participation in the PlugFest, e.g., during the Santa Clara f2f
12:38:50 [kaz]
jh: people bring their implementations to the PlugFest demo sessions based on the WoT Current Practice document
12:39:23 [kaz]
... if we could reuse the MMI mechanism for speech interface, etc., it would be very interesting
12:40:13 [kaz]
... we need to bridge the message between the WoT world and the MMI world
12:40:35 [kaz]
... if somebody can join the PlugFest we can follow up this
12:41:03 [kaz]
... we should definitely take input on the lifecycle event part as well
12:41:24 [kaz]
... is there somebody who bring this to the IG plenary discussion?
12:41:35 [kaz]
mm: do we want to invite the MMI guys themselves?
12:41:38 [kaz]
jh: sure
12:41:52 [kaz]
... can anybody from MMI can join the IG call?
12:42:22 [kaz]
... also would be great to have somebody from the WoT group
12:42:41 [kaz]
dd: do you have any idea on concrete messaging?
12:43:00 [kaz]
jh: regarding messages, we have Thing Description
12:43:16 [kaz]
... Thing Description is serialized version of the data model
12:43:48 [kaz]
... major resource is on GitHub
12:43:52 [jhund]
https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/scripting
12:44:57 [kaz]
jh: expose thing and consume thing
12:45:09 [kaz]
... the third part is discovery
12:46:02 [kaz]
jh: there is some proposal as well
12:46:26 [kaz]
-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/master/scripting/proposals/jhund-proposal.md Johannes' proposal
12:46:58 [kaz]
jh: consuming things
12:47:11 [kaz]
... actual messaging is done by the protocol binding layer
12:47:59 [kaz]
... this is what we've been discussing for the interaction
12:48:08 [kaz]
dd: thanks
12:48:13 [kaz]
... would like to look into the detail
12:48:27 [kaz]
... turning on the light, change the color to blue, etc.
12:48:40 [kaz]
jh: ok
12:48:54 [kaz]
... tx so much
12:48:58 [kaz]
... any other questions?
12:49:00 [kaz]
q?
12:49:03 [kaz]
ack m
12:49:45 [kaz]
... would discuss this further during the main call
12:50:08 [McCool]
q+
12:50:11 [kaz]
topic: Scripting API and REST API
12:50:51 [jhund]
https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/288
12:51:01 [kaz]
jh: there was an issue, issue-288
12:51:19 [kaz]
... also some discussion on the mailing list
12:51:39 [kaz]
... do we still need to change the Charter?
12:51:46 [kaz]
mm: I've been thinking about this
12:51:57 [kaz]
... we could add an item to the Charter
12:52:38 [kaz]
... Scripting API is logic for applications
12:53:08 [kaz]
... would make sense to have some API beyond REST API
12:53:24 [kaz]
... REST API should go under Protocol Binding
12:53:41 [kaz]
... do we want to add yet another normative deliverable for REST API?
12:53:46 [kaz]
s/do/but do/
12:53:53 [kaz]
... myself is reluctant for that
12:54:22 [kaz]
... personally think we should not make the scope larger
12:54:43 [kaz]
jh: make sense
12:55:02 [kaz]
... would cause problems if we make the scope broader
12:55:09 [kaz]
s/larger/broader/
12:55:57 [kaz]
... we can't change the existing REST APIs but should bind them to the Scripting API
12:56:07 [kaz]
... so that should be under the protocol binding topic
12:56:22 [jhund]
q?
12:56:41 [kaz]
mm: maybe we can add a topic for REST API but that should be informative
12:57:33 [kaz]
... but the question is we want to add a section even if it's informative
12:57:44 [kaz]
jh: zoltan?
12:57:58 [kaz]
zk: I'm fine with not modifying the Charter itself
12:58:43 [kaz]
jh: we could decouple the discussion on Scripting API and REST API
12:59:24 [kaz]
ack m
12:59:35 [kaz]
mm: there is already standard API for REST
12:59:51 [ddahl]
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12:59:53 [zkis]
q+
13:00:09 [kaz]
q?
13:00:15 [kaz]
ack z
13:00:20 [kaz]
zk: one question
13:00:32 [kaz]
... what do we do for this proposal?
13:00:48 [kaz]
... can we include this to the GitHub repo?
13:01:14 [kaz]
jh: can include the proposal part of the repo
13:01:50 [kaz]
... (shows the latest draft Charter)
13:02:37 [kaz]
mm: we can discuss this during the main call
13:03:08 [kaz]
jh: will follow up the pull request
13:03:16 [jhund]
q?
13:03:39 [kaz]
... for the scripting part, we would see the need for some template
13:03:46 [kaz]
... for REST API
13:03:55 [kaz]
... but decouple from the Scripting API discussion
13:04:14 [kaz]
... would add a deliverable for REST API for that purpose
13:04:24 [kaz]
... we'll discuss this during the main call
13:04:42 [kaz]
... regarding MMI, we'll have further discussion during the main call
13:04:53 [kaz]
... bridging between WoT and MMI
13:04:57 [kaz]
... lifecycle events
13:06:18 [kaz]
kaz: regarding the potential change for the Charter, we need to check with Wendy as well
13:06:24 [kaz]
... and I'll talk with her
13:08:55 [kaz]
q?
13:10:29 [kaz]
jh: let's briefly talk within the group first
13:10:32 [kaz]
[ adjourned ]
13:10:37 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
13:10:41 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:10:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/12-wot-minutes.html kaz
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