13:53:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
13:53:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/07-forms-irc
13:53:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:53:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:53:55 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:53:56 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
13:53:56 <trackbot> Date: 07 December 2016
13:54:23 <Steven> Agenda:  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0022
13:54:33 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0022
13:54:38 <Steven> Chair: Steven
13:54:43 <Steven> Regrets: None
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14:04:45 <Steven> Present:  Alain, Erik, Steven
14:07:08 <Steven> Topic: xforms-next/previous
14:07:08 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0073.html
14:07:08 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0001.html
14:07:29 <Steven> Steven: This is the example for the spec, and to show the use case
14:07:53 <Steven> Topic: Serialization as multipart/related
14:07:53 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0006.html
14:09:04 <Steven> Steven: I don't understand how this is supposed to work.
14:09:13 <Steven> Erik: I raised it long ago
14:09:27 <Steven> ... John Boyer says that there is magic happening
14:09:50 <Steven> ... the processor has to do something special
14:09:57 <Steven> ... I need to look what we do
14:10:24 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to report back on how he implements multipart/related with regard to upload/anyURI
14:10:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2096 - Report back on how he implements multipart/related with regard to upload/anyuri [on Erik Bruchez - due 2016-12-14].
14:10:57 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2076: Propose text for what value is used when the
14:10:57 <Steven> evaluation of function/result@value fails
14:10:57 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Oct/0012.html
14:10:57 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0093.html
14:11:11 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0026.html
14:11:19 <Steven> Steven: Thank you.
14:11:41 <Steven> Topic: Processing nested binds (The xforms-rebuild Event)
14:11:41 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0020.html
14:11:52 <Steven> Steven: Now solved
14:12:01 <Steven> Topic: refresh vs xforms-model-construct-done
14:12:01 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0003.html
14:14:00 <Steven> Erik: I agree that what is in refresh is the same as in initialization
14:14:25 <Steven> Steven: So you're OK with me adding something to initialize to make them match
14:14:28 <Steven> Alain: OK with me
14:14:42 <Steven> Topic: Circular dependencies
14:14:42 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0075.html
14:16:39 <Steven> Steven: Maybe it is soluble by removing the word "calculate" in the first sentence quoted in the email
14:17:06 <Steven> Erik: I'm puzzled.
14:20:49 <Steven> Erik: Circular dependencies can only happen via calculate.
14:21:05 <Steven> ... but not via constraint for example.
14:23:07 <Steven> Steven: So all the spec needs is to define circular dependencies as only going via calculates.
14:23:51 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to rephrase circular dependency text
14:23:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2097 - Rephrase circular dependency text [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-14].
14:24:07 <Steven> Topic: Repeat processing (with readonly indexref)
14:24:29 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0071.html
14:27:49 <Steven> Erik: If the indexref is readonly it will cause problems.
14:28:59 <Steven> Steven: I can see use-cases where the inexref is calculated from something else
14:29:11 <Steven> Erik: You could override readonly in that case
14:29:18 <Steven> Steven: We still have the problem
14:29:49 <Steven> Erik: Either we say "bad stuff wil happen" or say that something else happens if the indexref is readonly
14:30:52 <Steven> Steven: We can say that when the system updates the index, if it can't update the indexref, it won't
14:31:34 <Steven> Erik: That's OK
14:32:06 <Steven> Topic: The insert Element (ID copying)
14:32:06 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0089.html
14:32:37 <Steven> Steven: Do we do it or not?
14:33:06 <Steven> Erik: And you could have element values that are ID type
14:33:45 <Steven> ... you can modify the ID yourself.
14:33:50 <Steven> ... we don't support it.
14:34:44 <Steven> Steven: Shall we remove this comment
14:34:49 <Steven> Erik: I'm fine
14:35:09 <Steven> Steven: I will mention that this is a change in the spec, so that commentators are aware of it
14:35:22 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to remove ID copying comment
14:35:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2098 - Remove id copying comment [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-14].
14:35:38 <Steven> Topic: insert and delete (when at is out of bounds)
14:35:38 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0090.html
14:36:42 <Steven> Steven: We could also demand that both insert and delete demand the index to be in bounds
14:37:17 <Steven> Erik: You can explicitely say what to do when it is out of bounds
14:37:45 <Steven> Erik: It is better to catch errors earlier
14:37:56 <Steven> ... I agree that it is worse with delete
14:38:21 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to change insert and delete to only work when in range
14:38:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2099 - Change insert and delete to only work when in range [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-14].
14:38:41 <Steven> Topic: Lazy authoring
14:38:41 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0056.html
14:38:55 <Steven> Steven: I think this has been covered in the mail and that we keep it.
14:39:13 <Steven> ... I  made some adjustments to the text, but it's still there.
14:39:28 <Steven> Topic: Select element
14:39:28 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Oct/0068.html
14:39:51 <Steven> Steven: Skip this today; I'm not ready to discuss it
14:40:06 <Steven> Topic: Event on submission result
14:40:06 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Dec/0019.html
14:41:25 <Steven> Steven: I miss this event in the processing model
14:41:39 <Steven> Erik: What would you do?
14:42:07 <Steven> ... submission is not multi-threaded
14:43:24 <Steven> Steven: How do deal with it now?
14:43:31 <Steven> Erik: You get an event or callback
14:45:46 <Steven> Steven: So you're saying that there is no use case, and it's just magic?
14:46:50 <Steven> Erik: The response is atomic from XForms POV. There's no streaming or whatever
14:47:15 <Steven> Steven: Fair enough
14:47:30 <Steven> Topic: Coming calls
14:47:30 <Steven> [No link]
14:48:12 <Steven> Steven: I propose we skip the 28th and 4th.
14:48:41 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
14:49:02 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:49:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/07-forms-minutes.html Steven
14:53:05 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to match UI initialization with refresh
14:53:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2100 - Match ui initialization with refresh [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-14].
14:53:09 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:53:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/07-forms-minutes.html Steven
14:54:30 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to update text wrt readonly indexref
14:54:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2101 - Update text wrt readonly indexref [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-14].
14:54:44 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:54:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/07-forms-minutes.html Steven
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