20:51:25 RRSAgent has joined #sdwssn 20:51:25 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/06-sdwssn-irc 20:51:27 RRSAgent, make logs world 20:51:27 Zakim has joined #sdwssn 20:51:29 Zakim, this will be SDW 20:51:29 ok, trackbot 20:51:30 Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference 20:51:30 Date: 06 December 2016 20:56:57 kerry has joined #sdwssn 20:57:08 present+ kerry 20:57:17 present+ ahaller2 21:01:23 phila has joined #sdwssn 21:02:35 joshlieberman has joined #sdwssn 21:02:52 ClausStadler has joined #sdwssn 21:03:01 present+ ClausStadler 21:03:10 present+ phila 21:03:21 present+ 21:03:52 KJanowic has joined #sdwssn 21:04:19 scribe: kerry 21:04:41 scribenick: kerry 21:04:55 present+ 21:04:56 present+ kjanowic 21:05:12 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:SSN-Telecon20161206 21:05:27 Approving last meeting's minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/11/29-sdwssn-minutes 21:05:36 +1 21:05:37 +1 21:05:38 +1 21:05:41 +1 21:05:42 topic: Approving last meeting's minutes 21:05:45 s/Working Group/SSN Sub Group/ 21:05:46 +1 21:05:49 Patent Call https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call 21:05:58 +! 21:06:21 [no response to patent call] 21:06:27 topic: Remaining meeting schedule for 2016 21:06:29 topic: Remaining meeting schedule for 2016 21:06:50 plan for 2 more meetings: f2f 15 & 16 December 21:07:05 plus a meeting next week just before f2f and also 19 dec 21:07:07 I cannot do the 19th Dec 21:07:10 26th is out of the question 21:07:15 q? 21:07:22 armin: what do we do next week/ 21:07:25 Can't we break for the holidays after next week? 21:07:32 probably away next week 21:07:36 +1 to KJanowic 21:07:46 q+ 21:07:52 joshlieberman: contingent on agreement on all issues? 21:08:00 Not really about progress but about family 21:08:46 That was wrt a 12/13 call, not all of December! I'll be out 12/19-1/4 21:08:51 armin: when is last day to publish fpwd before voting? 21:09:05 kerry: could be stretched to monday.... at a pinch 21:09:09 I will be out 12/18--1/4 21:09:29 phila: hope is that at f2f it will be resolved to publish 21:09:38 ...but will not come out until new year 21:09:45 q+ 21:10:09 ... if resolved to publish at f2f will be published first week of Jan 21:10:14 ack me 21:10:17 ....for review Mponday is good enough 21:10:18 q? 21:10:33 armin:we should aim to have it ready by Monday 21:11:07 kerry: it is ok to have a lot of issues in the WD 21:11:14 q? 21:11:22 s/armin: /armin: 21:11:32 q? 21:11:32 s/armin:/armin: 21:11:34 kerry speaks truth wrt issues flagged in the doc- that's fine and better than not publishing 21:11:36 ack kerry 21:11:47 joshlieberman: I meant we could avoid a meeting next week if all issues are resolved 21:11:54 armin: 21:12:07 armin: a lot of people are away on 19th? 21:12:22 -1 21:12:24 0 21:12:24 -0 21:12:26 -1 21:12:28 armin: are you avail on 19th? 21:12:29 +1 21:12:34 probably -1 21:12:49 january 2nd? 21:12:50 resolution: cancel ssn meeting on 19th December 21:12:55 +1 21:12:58 -1 21:12:58 -1 21:13:00 -1 21:13:00 0 21:13:02 -1 21:13:14 january 9th 21:13:14 it's Tue 3rd for most of us 21:13:16 +1 21:13:18 +1 21:13:19 +1 21:13:19 +0 21:13:33 q+ 21:13:49 q- 21:13:56 armin: xmas break will be... come back 9th Jan (8th Jan for most) 21:14:13 topic: Progress Report on current WD 21:14:26 phila: points out importance of approving pub at f2f 21:14:33 q? 21:14:38 s/8th/10th/ 21:15:08 first meeting after Xmas will be 10th Jan 21:15:25 resolved: first meeting in new year will be 10th Jan 21:16:09 https://w3c.github.io/sdw/ssn-usage/ 21:16:10 armin: raul analysed usage of ssn but did not find a lot of datasets, he did find some ontologies 21:16:22 ... encourage all to add to this 21:16:39 ..if you know of any others please add to this table 21:17:07 q? 21:17:21 armin: you can see the list of ontolgies here 21:17:35 ClausStadler_ has joined #sdwssn 21:17:43 q+ 21:17:47 q? 21:17:52 ack kerry 21:18:28 Our trajectory ontology is also an implementation in that it uses SSN. I can add it to the list. 21:19:17 action: raul to be asked to put out a general call for exiustimg implementations 21:19:17 Created ACTION-228 - Be asked to put out a general call for exiustimg implementations [on Raúl García Castro - due 2016-12-13]. 21:19:53 A collegue of mine is working on a project where they analyse log and possibly sensor data from printing machines and I suggested to have a look at SSN, but I am not sure on when there will be an update of whether SSN is applicable to it and whether they would model the data according to it, as they made some ad-hoc implementation a while ago 21:19:57 q? 21:20:30 topic: Progress Report on current WD 21:21:04 armin: lots of work with specgen -- had some problems, not entirely solved, output is now consistent but not complete 21:21:06 q+ 21:21:24 ....so we will have the new sosa in t he WD and sos works ok with specgen 21:21:33 s/sos/sosa/ 21:21:50 ....specgen does produce clean validated html so it is better that way 21:21:59 q? 21:22:05 ...tried also to update the figure but not in doc yet 21:22:11 ack kerry 21:23:37 SimonCox has joined #sdwssn 21:23:55 present+ SimonCox 21:24:01 kerry: what about dul alignment? 21:24:17 q? 21:24:30 armin: we can work together on that 21:24:54 armin: [sumarises for simon who just joined] 21:25:04 s/sumarises/summarises/ 21:25:11 q? 21:25:24 armin: KJanowic did you do anything for the intro/ 21:25:33 KJanowic: [missed] 21:25:41 armin: can you do for monday next week? 21:25:46 KJanowic: yes 21:26:20 q? 21:26:28 armin: that is it for update 21:26:32 q+ 21:26:33 + 21:26:35 q+ 21:26:52 armin: new ssn and new sos should be in doc today 21:26:52 ack kerry 21:28:55 q+ 21:29:01 kerry: posted to the mailing list the mapping between old ssn and new ssn, including equivalence relations 21:29:15 ack SimonCox 21:29:56 simon: mapping table have responded to Kerry's comments and added the properties 21:30:08 topic: Annotations in mapping table https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Mapping_Table 21:30:10 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Mapping_Table 21:30:10 simon: could also be used for the allignments 21:30:49 armin: this table is the mapping between sosa and ssn --- will not get in doc yet -- will be too ambitious to get sos/ssn alignment done 21:30:58 s/sos/sosa/ 21:31:04 the mapping table is not an alignment, it is a comparison of textual definitions 21:31:17 ...we can work to resolved the differences in here and eventually that will be reflected in ontology 21:31:29 ...but cannot see how we can get this in the next draft 21:31:46 ...simon and i have both started on this but I don't expect to get it ready 21:32:06 simon: I don't have time either 21:32:35 armin: yes mapping table will be a resource for that 21:32:57 simon: kerry picked some nits on the mapping to ssn and I think have clarified it now 21:33:09 ...also added the properties which is essentially the same... 21:33:44 ....armin had talked about tracing and feature of interst clss but this may be confusng the propery and classes of the same name 21:34:05 ....textual materila from rdfs comments is all there, alos have o&mlite and ogc uml model 21:34:22 armin: thanks simon 21:34:37 s/materila/material 21:34:53 s/confusng/confusing 21:34:54 ..... pls have a loook at that table of annotations and make comments 21:35:07 q+ 21:35:21 .... also have split into multiple comments to pull out examples as separate comments 21:35:22 +1 21:35:49 ack KJanowic 21:35:52 ...maybe have a separate property for examples but this is good for now ... pls havea look! 21:36:07 KJanowic: why have multiple comments? 21:36:47 q+ 21:36:47 SimonCox: the question in my mind is do we need to have a special property for the examples and other things? or drop the examples? 21:37:17 SimonCox: it was pointed that there was a mixture and it could be cleaner than all embedded withing a single text field 21:37:33 ...so I have split them up but maybe they do not all belong there 21:37:35 q? 21:37:40 ack KJanowic 21:37:54 KJanowic: from a tool perspective if we use a tool which comment should they use? 21:37:55 q+ 21:38:12 KJanowic: sequence is not important 21:38:30 ...so tools may show some arbitrary comment first, maybe not the right one 21:38:42 ...so examples are so much more important 21:38:51 ...multiple comments may backfire 21:39:00 q+ 21:39:01 -1 to multiple comments for the reason KJanowic mentioned 21:39:24 SimonCox: we could use skos or dc:description properties 21:39:27 +1 to what simon just said 21:39:41 ack ahaller 21:39:44 +1 21:39:45 SimonCox: editorial decision 21:40:01 q+ 21:40:09 q- 21:40:19 armin: what does phila recommend? 21:40:37 joshlieberman has joined #sdwssn 21:40:39 +1 to using alternate comments (possibly annotating cases of multiple comments such that it is possible to single each out) 21:40:40 phila: I could look bu just label, dened-by, comment that I know 21:40:46 q? 21:40:46 could use skos:definition dc:description skos:note skos:scopeNote etc for various purposes, but no clear convention 21:40:47 as you wish sounds great 21:40:51 ack kerry 21:41:06 s/alternate comments/alternative modeling of comments 21:41:11 s/dened-by/isDefinedBy/ 21:41:25 +1 to kerry's 'make your own convention' 21:41:28 kerry: want to see them separated, but use a different property for the example 21:41:48 lets avoid multiple comment blocks as we have no control over their order, i.e., priority 21:42:07 q? 21:42:14 topic: sosa:Platform vs. ssn:Platform, why is it different? ISSUE 88 21:42:14 armin: we will do this -- find an annotation propoprty to use 21:42:37 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/88 21:42:41 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/88 21:42:43 resolved: use some approriate new annotation properties to record different kinds of comments in the ontology 21:43:00 q+ 21:43:13 issue-88? 21:43:13 issue-88 -- Why is a sosa-core platofrm completely different to an ssn:platform? -- raised 21:43:13 http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/88 21:43:22 https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/ssnx/ssn#Platform 21:44:05 q+ 21:44:37 kerry: in SOSA the Platform is closer to a Device, Platform in SSN is widely used, for example in Sensor-ML 21:44:50 ack KJanowic 21:45:47 s/approriate/appropriate 21:46:03 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/sdw/gh-pages/ssn/rdf/sosa.ttl 21:46:15 or use the mapping table: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Mapping_Table 21:46:42 q? 21:49:18 KJanowic: Platform in SOSA is essentially the same as in SSN, it includes Actuation and Humans 21:49:50 q+ 21:49:50 I have to strongly disagree here for all the arguments I made 21:50:04 subclass 21:50:32 q? 21:50:36 joshlieberman_ has joined #sdwssn 21:50:46 ack SimonCox 21:51:05 q+ 21:51:39 Both capture the same semantics but the SOSA text is more explicit and also allows for virtual sensors to be mounted 21:51:44 +1 to simon 21:52:12 why not subclassing? 21:52:29 q? 21:52:41 q+ 21:53:00 ack ahaller 21:53:02 joshlieberman has joined #sdwssn 21:53:12 there is just the hostedby relation, noting more. and this is just like old ssn:attachedSystem 21:53:14 q+ 21:53:21 Sticking point may be "virtual platform" 21:54:17 ack kerry 21:54:18 q+ 21:54:28 q+ 21:55:03 Very happy to do that 21:55:20 q? 21:55:47 ack KJanowic 21:55:57 armin: suggests an example sould be helpful showing how sensors, devices and platforms interact 21:56:34 q? 21:56:48 KJanowic: properties; attached system and (sometinh) are closely realted, tried to get actuators and sensing devices in there and be explicit about humans etc so [missed] but will provide textual summary of this 21:56:56 q+ 21:57:03 ack kerry 21:57:08 armin: pls include an example and send to list 21:57:34 q 21:57:40 q? 21:57:47 joshlieberman: 21:57:49 https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/ssn/rdf/documentation_examples/sosa-core_examples.ttl 21:57:51 ack joshlieberman 21:57:55 joshlieberman: irc not working for me 21:58:19 ... don't have vocabs in front of me --- would be good to have sensorml in mapping table of vocabulary terms 21:58:44 platforms carry sensors but platforms do not sense 21:58:46 ...sosa:platfom defintion is not clearly distinguished from sosa:platform 21:58:47 q+ 21:59:02 ...insensorml the platform carries the geometry for location etc of sensors 21:59:12 joshlieberman: could you add the SensorML column? 21:59:24 s/from sosa:platform/from sosa:sensor 21:59:24 ....not clear what a platform is other thna a collection of sensors in sosa 21:59:38 s/insensorml/in SensorML 21:59:39 ....that might result in the idea of virtual platform not being so helpful 21:59:51 s/thna/than 21:59:56 q? 21:59:58 .... "featureness" that we need may be less appropriate for a computer system 22:00:02 ack KJanowic 22:00:31 KJanowic: def of platform in sosa is the thing on which sensors are mounted... but platforms do not sense and gereate observations 22:00:59 It would be more useful to have a positive distinction, not just a negative one. 22:01:00 ....a physical platform with multiple sensors is included 22:01:14 +q 22:01:29 ack ClausStadler 22:01:29 ... we need to make sure the rest of the ontology [missed] we can simply cut the last sentence if we do not want virtual platforms 22:01:55 +1 to Claus' example 22:01:57 ClausStadler: agree with kr e.g simulation with 3d models or a car 22:01:59 q? 22:02:07 ...think that it could be a virtual entity 22:02:19 Yes, I will describe this in detail. 22:02:22 q+ 22:02:46 armin: confustion that we do not have a device in sosa --- krs pls work on this explanation over the next week. 22:02:56 s/confustion/confusion/ 22:03:03 ...we need wd for call next week 22:03:12 I think the main purpose of the platform should be to allow logical grouping of sensors / actuators 22:03:13 .....thks! 22:03:16 bye! 22:03:22 thanks, for the productive telcon. bye bye 22:03:23 rrsagent, make logs public 22:03:26 bye 22:03:29 rrsagent, draft minutes 22:03:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/06-sdwssn-minutes.html kerry 22:03:31 bye 22:03:37 bye! 22:04:04 RRSAgent, make logs public 22:04:06 s/confustion/confusion 22:04:27 RRSAgent, make minutes 22:04:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/06-sdwssn-minutes.html phila 22:04:36 s/with kr/with KJanowic 22:04:46 RRSAgent, make minutes 22:04:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/06-sdwssn-minutes.html ahaller2 22:06:59 chair: Armin 22:07:28 RRSAgent, make minutes 22:07:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/06-sdwssn-minutes.html phila