20:26:29 RRSAgent has joined #svg 20:26:29 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-svg-irc 20:26:31 RRSAgent, make logs public 20:26:34 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 20:26:34 ok, trackbot 20:26:34 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 20:26:34 Date: 01 December 2016 20:26:44 Chair: Nikos 20:26:49 scribe: nikos 20:26:53 present+ nikos 20:27:08 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2016Nov/0025.html 20:29:49 gsnedders has joined #svg 20:31:54 👍 20:33:04 present+ Tav 20:33:06 present+ gsnedders 20:33:09 present+ Tav 20:33:18 present+ AmeliaBR 20:33:23 present+ shepazu 20:33:32 stakagi has joined #svg 20:35:12 present+ stakagi 20:35:41 Topic: Testing 20:35:54 nikos: Sent an email to www-svg 20:36:18 ... just trying to work out what the common wisdom was around small pixel differences 20:36:23 ... https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2016Nov/0020.html 20:36:37 ... dbaron gave an interesting reply 20:37:02 ... before in the references I was using the absolute minimum set of SVG features so I could be sure something would work 20:37:40 ... dbaron suggested only differering SVG and ref by what is being tested 20:37:49 ... then you should use mostly the same code paths and get a very similar result 20:37:56 AmeliaBR: think that's a good path when it can be used 20:38:07 ... the tests have to be approached as a complete test suite 20:38:18 ... can't look at one test and assume reference is what it is supposed to be 20:38:49 ... because that reference relies on other features 20:39:05 shepazu: you have to treat the test suite as a whole. you can't run a test in isolation 20:39:26 AmeliaBR: Yeah if that were not the case you would need PNG references 20:39:40 shepazu: it introduces the idea of prerequisites into the test suite 20:39:57 AmeliaBR: exactly, no point going to the next test if you haven't passed the previous 20:40:02 AmeliaBR: not sure that will solve all the problems 20:40:12 ... certainly if your basic test is whether markers are supported 20:40:23 ... you're going to have to use markers in one version and something else in another 20:40:51 nikos: Yeah well in that case you can test markers without any transforms 20:41:29 ... I need to update the tests that were failing to verify all this works, but I suspect it will 20:41:33 ... and I'll update the documentation 20:42:01 gsnedders: I looked at your references. Was wondering if the differences were caused by the transforms and scaling 20:42:19 AmeliaBR: existing tests were written with the idea in mind that they would be doing manual comparisons against the image 20:42:28 ... if we were to break away from that and start from scratch 20:42:46 ... be very precise and minimise any rounding errors, we can probably alleviate that 20:43:06 nikos: think that's the path we'll have to take, where we don't copy 1 for 1, we have to restructure 20:43:42 public-test-infra 20:43:45 gsnedders: The other thing I wanted to mention. Is the public-test-infra is a good place to email about testing issues 20:44:29 ... that's about all testing stuff, not just limited to infrastructure 20:45:27 AmeliaBR: what about going forward? Should we still focus on trying to convert the old tests as we can? 20:46:01 nikos: So the old tests are a good source of places to find tests to write 20:46:04 ... the other option 20:46:05 https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22Needs+tests%22 20:46:23 ... I added a label to Github for issues that require a test 20:47:21 ... So there's old tests that need converting, but that won't cover all the corner cases. But it's also good to focus on things being worked on and discussed now so we can get tests in and file browser bugs. 20:47:53 AmeliaBR: lots of issues resolved in SVG 2 that aren't covered by the svg 1.1 test suite 20:47:56 ... so it's not an end game 20:48:29 nikos: Original plan was for chapter owners to write tests for their chapters 20:48:48 gsnedders: Given I haven't looked at the spec much, is there a list of changes? 20:48:54 https://nikosandronikos.github.io/svg2-info/svg2-feature-support 20:49:26 AmeliaBR: we have lists of features, but not sure we were so good about documenting where we fixed cross browser incompatibilities 20:49:44 nikos: one of the reasons I want to get feedback is to prioritise test creation 20:50:15 ... so we are making tests for things people actually want to implement 20:52:03 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1321066 20:52:11 https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2016/11/30/fixing-an-svg-animation-vulnerability/ 20:52:47 ^ Mozilla got a scare with a 0-day security bug hidden in SVG/SMIL API code. 20:53:48 AmeliaBR: it would be nice to get clarity on what the priorities are - from the authoring side, a big priority can be focusing on existing features where there are incompatibilities 20:53:54 ... unfortunately we don't have a single list 20:54:08 gsnedders: how hard would it be to run the browsers own tests against each other? 20:54:15 ... if the goal is to find places where they don't interoperate 20:54:22 ... probably not too hard? 20:54:34 AmeliaBR: if we can import all their svg related tests 20:54:44 ... then to make sure what they're testing already is correct, would be an important first step 20:54:58 ... suspect a lot of issues are in what's not being tested 20:55:12 nikos: sounds like an excellent idea 20:55:35 gsnedders: suspect you may hit a few that match exactly in the browser they are written for but not in others 20:55:44 ... it's been a while since I've tried doing stuff like thi 20:56:41 nikos: difference between WebKit is mostly the naming conventions. So that could likely be script converted mostly 20:56:54 gsnedders: Blink is the same as WebKit. Mozilla have manifest files 20:56:59 ... would be easy to convert 20:57:14 ... wouldn't be surprised if some were using JS layout stuff 20:57:23 ... looking at the DOM to see where things are rendered 20:57:49 nikos: yeah a lot of the older WebKit tests might be like that 20:58:34 gsnedders: Mozilla may be the best place to start because many are cc0 licensed nowadays 20:59:29 MDN on how to create ref tests: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Creating_reftest-based_unit_tests 21:00:49 RRSAgent, make minutes 21:00:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-svg-minutes.html nikos 21:19:23 AmeliaBR: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/issues/4165 has a bunch of links that might be useful, too 21:19:33 (also, comments welcome, etc) 21:19:47 👍 23:08:40 chaals has joined #svg