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13:04:05 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Dave_Raggett, Feng_Zhang, Masato_Ohura, Michael_McCool, Ryan_Ware, Takeshi_Yamada, Takuki_Kamiya, Uday_Davuluru
13:04:37 <mjkoster> webex seems not to be working
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13:07:43 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster, Ari_Keranen, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Takeshi_Yamada, Keiichi_Tokuyama
13:08:18 <kaz> present+ Yongjing_Zhang
13:08:56 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/IG_WebConf#Agenda_of_next_WoT_IG_WebConf:_23_November_2016
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13:12:30 <kaz> scribenick: McCool
13:12:37 <kaz> scribe: Michael_McCool
13:12:59 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
13:13:03 <kaz> scribe: kaz
13:13:15 <kaz> present+ Ryuichi_Matsukura
13:13:47 <yingying> present+ Yingying_Chen
13:14:58 <kaz> yonging: checking the agenda items
13:15:24 <kaz> ... WG Charter status, F2F logistics, OCF liaison
13:15:31 <kaz> ... OCF data modeling next week
13:15:35 <kaz> ... TD and Security
13:15:47 <kaz> topic: WG Charter status
13:15:57 <kaz> present+ Nan_Wang
13:16:12 <kaz> mm: sent this updated draft Charter PDF to the group
13:16:38 <kaz> -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2016Nov/att-0056/wot-wg-2016.pdf Michael's compiled updated draft Charter
13:17:01 <kaz> mm: updated the Charter according to the AC Comments
13:17:16 <kaz> ... based on the pull requests
13:17:31 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pulls pull requests
13:17:52 <kaz> mm: if you have comments we can include them as well
13:18:03 <kaz> ... (going through the Charter)
13:18:09 <kaz> ... changed the introduction
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13:18:45 <kaz> ... "emerging standards"
13:18:59 <kaz> ... (go to "2. Scope")
13:19:19 <kaz> ... put out "triples" from the sentence in 2.1
13:19:34 <kaz> ... added explicit sentence on how TD works
13:20:14 <kaz> [[
13:20:15 <kaz> The W
13:20:15 <kaz> orking Group will develop solutions to describe Things through metadata and
13:20:15 <kaz> declarations of their capabilities
13:20:15 <kaz> (e.g., possible interactions).
13:20:17 <kaz> This work includes the
13:20:19 <kaz> definition of dif
13:20:21 <kaz> ferent
13:20:23 <kaz> machine­understandable vocabulary sets
13:20:25 <kaz> as well as serialization
13:20:27 <kaz> formats of such a Thing Description.
13:20:29 <kaz> The Thing Description will be aimed at enabling
13:20:31 <kaz> scalable and automated tooling, including but not limited to search,
13:20:33 <kaz> automated bridging,
13:20:35 <kaz> service composition, validation, and development abstractions.
13:20:37 <kaz> While enabling the use of
13:20:39 <kaz> powerful tooling, the Thing Description will be designed in such a way
13:20:41 <kaz> that even
13:20:43 <kaz> constrained devices can use it.
13:20:47 <kaz> In particular
13:20:49 <kaz> , for basic usages there will not be an explicit
13:20:51 <kaz> dependence on RDF and
13:20:53 <kaz> it will not be necessary for constrained systems to perform
13:20:55 <kaz> explicit semantic processing.
13:20:57 <kaz> However
13:20:59 <kaz> , to enable more complex usages, the Thing
13:21:01 <kaz> Description will include extension points
13:21:03 <kaz> to allow the use of semantic vocabularies and
13:21:05 <kaz> tools
13:21:07 <kaz> (e.g., Linked Open Data, Schema.org, Resource Description Framework (RDF),
13:21:09 <kaz> semantic reasoners, etc.)
13:21:11 <kaz> .
13:21:13 <kaz> ]]
13:21:17 <kaz> mm: updated the text in right above "2.2 Scripting API" by removing redundant text
13:21:43 <kaz> ... changed the title of "Protocol Binding" to "Binding Templates"
13:21:51 <kaz> ... for section 2.3
13:22:02 <kaz> ... and "2.4 Security and Privacy"
13:22:08 <kaz> ... modified the text
13:22:35 <kaz> ... (going to "3.2 Informative Specifications"
13:22:40 <kaz> ... )
13:22:54 <kaz> ... WoT Binding Templates now informative
13:23:11 <kaz> q+
13:23:18 <kaz> q-
13:23:26 <kaz> q+
13:24:21 <kaz> kaz: Scripting API is normative and Binding Template is informative. right?
13:24:21 <Yongjing> q+
13:24:26 <kaz> mm: yes
13:24:31 <kaz> qck k
13:24:33 <kaz> ack k
13:24:40 <kaz> s/qck k//
13:24:44 <kaz> ack y
13:24:59 <kaz> yz: when will we publish this Charter?
13:25:08 <kaz> mm: this is a draft Charter
13:25:47 <kaz> ... think it's would be OK
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13:27:12 <kaz> kaz: right. we don't need to specify concrete date here in this draft
13:27:33 <kaz> ... after getting the final conclusion, we can put the date later
13:29:10 <kaz> ... our expectation is finalizing the procedure by the end of the year
13:30:23 <kaz> topic: F2F Logistics
13:30:51 <kaz> mm: would input from Ryan and Koster
13:31:15 <kaz> ... the estimated cost is 13000 usd
13:31:24 <rrware> $13,500
13:31:32 <kaz> ... to rent a hotel, e.g., Crowne Praza
13:31:48 <kaz> rw: any feedback, McCool?
13:31:51 <kaz> mm: not yet
13:31:59 <kaz> rw: please poke them again
13:32:22 <kaz> mm: when is the deadline?
13:32:32 <kaz> rw: within next couple of weeks
13:32:42 <kaz> ... can you ping them?
13:32:45 <kaz> mm: will do
13:33:09 <kaz> ... Koster, any response from Samsung?
13:33:13 <kaz> mk: not yet
13:33:19 <kaz> ... let me try another inquiry
13:33:59 <kaz> yz: the venue is not fixed?
13:34:21 <kaz> mm: we have issues on security to hold the meeting at our own facilities
13:34:30 <kaz> ... the venue should be a hotel
13:34:40 <kaz> ... let me ask withing Intel
13:34:50 <kaz> ... will send an email back
13:35:01 <kaz> topic: OCF Liaison
13:35:10 <kaz> mm: thinking about it
13:35:22 <kaz> ... would call for volunteers
13:35:33 <kaz> ... me, Michael Koster, etc.
13:35:44 <kaz> s/etc./Yongjing/
13:35:47 <kaz> ... so far
13:35:53 <kaz> ... would have a meeting
13:36:04 <kaz> topic: Security
13:36:23 <kaz> rw: 1 question
13:36:46 <kaz> ... relationship between security tf and the group
13:36:52 <kaz> ... report back to the group?
13:37:14 <kaz> yz: my understanding is TFs should report back to the group
13:38:10 <kaz> kaz: probably the security tf should be the joint tf of the IG and the WG
13:38:21 <kaz> ... but you could start the TF as a sub group of the IG first
13:38:32 <kaz> ... and report back to this main IG call like TD and Scripting
13:38:39 <kaz> rw: ok. that makes sense
13:39:13 <kaz> ... (shows github page)
13:39:59 <rrware> https://github.com/ware/wot/blob/security-tf-docs/TF-Security/Charter.md
13:40:25 <kaz> rw: the scope
13:40:53 <kaz> ... Review of WoT related specifications for specific security relevant properties. These include areas
13:41:20 <kaz> s/These include areas//
13:41:30 <kaz> ... review of use cases
13:41:33 <kaz> ... security test plans
13:41:41 <kaz> ... suggested test plans for implementations
13:41:53 <kaz> mm: implementations match standards
13:42:00 <kaz> ... want W3C do that
13:42:25 <kaz> ... recommending test plans rather than implementing them
13:42:28 <kaz> rw: agree
13:42:45 <kaz> mm: the WG should recommend test plans
13:43:06 <kaz> rw: pull request on scope
13:43:16 <kaz> ... lifecycle, e.g., shipping
13:43:32 <kaz> ... questions?
13:43:49 <kaz> mm: use cases everywhere in the lifecycle
13:43:57 <kaz> ... need security consideration
13:44:00 <kaz> q?
13:44:29 <kaz> yz: wondering what "the tf would provide some test plan" means?
13:44:44 <kaz> ... interoperable tests? conformance tests?
13:44:49 <kaz> rw: types of tests
13:45:04 <kaz> ... validate the spec is robust against attacks
13:45:38 <kaz> yz: define some test cases?
13:45:41 <kaz> rw: yes
13:46:23 <McCool> q+ Mccool
13:46:26 <kaz> kaz: the TF will help the WG generate test suites for the CR stage
13:46:30 <kaz> rw: right
13:46:30 <kaz> q?
13:46:53 <kaz> mm: the TF generates recommendation for test suites
13:47:11 <kaz> ... conformance tests goes into test suite
13:47:41 <kaz> rw: not produce WG deliverables themselves but (help) generate test suite
13:47:47 <kaz> ... and review test suite
13:48:12 <kaz> s/the TF/regarding the "Deliverables", the TF/
13:48:32 <kaz> rw: "Relationships to External Gorups"
13:48:42 <kaz> ... W3C Security Activity
13:48:48 <kaz> ... WoT WG, IG
13:48:56 <kaz> ... CG
13:49:00 <kaz> ... Automotive WG
13:49:08 <kaz> ... Web Security IG
13:49:31 <kaz> q+
13:49:33 <kaz> ack m
13:49:42 <kaz> ... Web Application Security WG
13:49:59 <kaz> mm: listing groups but those are just examples
13:50:14 <kaz> ari: external groups should include IETF?
13:50:31 <kaz> rw: having liaison?
13:50:50 <kaz> q?
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13:52:14 <kaz> kaz: we should make this section into (1) W3C groups and (2) external groups
13:52:23 <kaz> ... and could include IETF into #2
13:52:35 <kaz> ... and we should include Device and Sensors WG into #1
13:52:37 <kaz> rw: ok
13:52:43 <kaz> ... next "Participation"
13:53:22 <kaz> ... "Additionally, ..." will be changed to "Additionally, recognized security experts..."
13:53:32 <kaz> ... next "Communication"
13:53:41 <kaz> mm: a typo here
13:54:07 <kaz> (teleconfrences->teleconferences)
13:54:35 <kaz> rw: we should have a patent policy section
13:54:46 <kaz> s/we/btw, we/
13:54:58 <kaz> mm: for this security work or the WG in general?
13:55:06 <kaz> rw: for this security tf
13:55:13 <dsr> q+
13:55:48 <dsr> q-
13:56:28 <dsr> q+
13:56:33 <dsr> ack kaz
13:56:44 <kaz> kaz: regarding the patent policy, there is a W3C Patent Policy
13:56:50 <kaz> ... and we can refer to that
13:57:03 <kaz> ... that is related to W3C WG deliverables
13:57:15 <kaz> ... IG can generate just IG Notes
13:58:02 <dsr> ack dsr
13:58:32 <kaz> dsr: given there could be people who would join only IG and not WG, we should clarify the TF would work on informative work
13:59:11 <kaz> kaz: the scope and the deliverables of this TF is generating (informative) test suite and reviewing test suite, probably there would be no problem
13:59:18 <kaz> topic: TD Restructure update
13:59:22 <rrware> present-
13:59:29 <kaz> sk: held a call today
13:59:45 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2016/11/23-wot-td-minutes.html TD minutes
13:59:57 <kaz> sk: talked about pull requests for the draft WG Charter
14:00:11 <kaz> ... and then discussed streaming and compound values proposal by Dave
14:00:22 <kaz> ... server-sent events of HTML5
14:00:38 <kaz> ... and then discussion on representation format
14:00:57 <kaz> ... should stuck with JSON-LD or not
14:01:07 <kaz> ... more restricted version?
14:01:31 <kaz> ... and then the status of the Current Practices document
14:01:43 <kaz> ... would update the document by the end of Nov.
14:02:00 <kaz> ... Daniel's pull request on Media Type
14:02:42 <kaz> ... the next meeting will be held next Wednesday at 8pm CET
14:03:07 <kaz> yz: question on JSON-LD discussion
14:03:11 <kaz> ... any conclusion?
14:03:15 <kaz> sk: not yet
14:03:37 <kaz> ... invited the JSON-LD expert as well
14:03:55 <kaz> ... talked about the next version of the spec
14:04:29 <kaz> ... maybe it would not match our WoT work if wait for the Ver. 2 version
14:05:03 <kaz> ... we should consider other serialization including C language
14:05:13 <McCool> q+ mccool
14:05:31 <kaz> ... standardize TD should be independent from specific technologies
14:05:43 <kaz> ... we could have our own light-weight JSON-LD
14:05:56 <kaz> ... which would better fit with developers' need
14:06:08 <kaz> ... need to think about what would be the right direction
14:06:23 <kaz> ... based on the preference of the group
14:06:24 <dsr> q+
14:06:26 <kaz> q?
14:06:33 <kaz> mm: sorry couldn't join the call
14:06:49 <kaz> ... ideally should be subset of RDF technology and semantic web
14:06:56 <kaz> ... we should r
14:07:15 <kaz> ... leverage existing technologies
14:07:36 <kaz> sk: the group should set up based on RDF modeling
14:07:42 <kaz> ... challenging task
14:07:50 <kaz> ... JSON-LD is a good compromise
14:08:12 <kaz> ... you have some JSON-like format and can convert it to RDF
14:08:22 <kaz> mm: changing the way?
14:08:25 <kaz> yz: not good enough
14:08:37 <kaz> mm: JSON-LD is a Recommendation
14:08:37 <dsr> q?
14:08:59 <kaz> ... but there is some restriction
14:09:18 <kaz> ... some blocking point
14:09:53 <kaz> mm: could make certain features option and make it compatible with JSON
14:09:57 <kaz> dsr: pros and cons
14:10:01 <Yongjing> q+
14:10:16 <kaz> ... trying to thinking in general is good
14:10:31 <kaz> ... but need simpler way for small devices
14:10:44 <kaz> ... if you want, I can show a demo of translator
14:10:50 <kaz> mm: maybe next week?
14:11:01 <kaz> sk: good topic for the next TD call
14:11:06 <dsr> ack dsr
14:11:35 <dsr> ack mc
14:11:40 <kaz> yz: people may choose the better format based on their need
14:11:41 <dsr> ack Yon
14:11:44 <kaz> q?
14:11:57 <kaz> sk: please join the next TD call :)
14:12:21 <kaz> ... many dependencies on this topic
14:12:27 <kaz> ... will add this to the agenda
14:12:54 <kaz> present+ Jim_Lim
14:13:49 <kaz> topic: Scripting update
14:14:19 <kaz> dape: Johannes invited Ben for Web Assembly CG
14:14:28 <yingying> -> https://www.w3.org/2016/11/21-wot-minutes.html
14:14:40 <kaz> s/html/html Scripting minutes/
14:14:54 <kaz> dape: Web Assembly code to JS
14:15:04 <kaz> ... they want to use a certain API
14:15:22 <kaz> -> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1zOWdvXTl_jZNup_-oyoB-0QiQOcikSUrpSP2bKZMk28/edit#slide=id.g13b9fc0958_0_0 Ben's slides
14:15:31 <kaz> dape: many supports by browsers
14:15:35 <kaz> ... Mozilla, Chrome, etc.
14:16:06 <kaz> ... after that I talked about EXI
14:16:31 <kaz> ... looking at what we can achieve
14:16:42 <kaz> ... EXI for JS can generate efficient data
14:17:09 <Yongjing> q+
14:17:20 <kaz> ... would involve Samsung people as well
14:17:28 <dsr> q+
14:17:37 <kaz> mm: subset of the functionalities for small devices?
14:17:53 <kaz> dape: general discussion on what "Small Devices" mean
14:17:54 <akeranen> q+
14:18:04 <kaz> ... we want to look into it
14:18:09 <kaz> q?
14:18:39 <kaz> yz: we're looking into several different options?
14:18:50 <kaz> dape: we're currently working on WebIDL
14:19:06 <kaz> ... in theory could be mapped to any languages
14:19:19 <kaz> ... we need to identify what we should achieve
14:19:29 <kaz> yz: WebIDl is the basis?
14:19:31 <kaz> dape: think so
14:19:44 <kaz> ... but WebIDL itself is a generic IDL mechanism
14:19:50 <kaz> ack y
14:19:56 <kaz> ack d
14:20:13 <kaz> dsr: question for the WG about the language
14:20:31 <kaz> ... second question is what kind of small devices should be handled?
14:20:50 <kaz> ... I think the WoT group should consider very small devices which GWs can't talk with as well
14:21:16 <kaz> dape: need to define what "small devices" are
14:21:44 <kaz> dsr: we could have APIs for scripting but interesting to talk with application platforms
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14:21:46 <kaz> q?
14:21:48 <uday> q
14:21:52 <kaz> q+ uday
14:21:56 <McCool> q+ mcCool
14:22:15 <kaz> mm: good example is beacon and temp sensor
14:22:29 <kaz> ... always those devices are too small to have runtime
14:22:49 <kaz> dsr: could have some groups of devices
14:23:01 <kaz> ... having some way to talk with small devices would be good
14:23:18 <kaz> mm: subset of features for small devices would make sense
14:23:32 <kaz> q?
14:23:36 <kaz> ack m
14:23:53 <kaz> ari: constrained devices
14:24:06 <kaz> ... there is definition of classes of devices within IETF
14:24:30 <kaz> mm: know about that
14:24:41 <kaz> ... but need to clarify what could be done by which devices
14:24:59 <kaz> ... devices can change classes
14:25:20 <kaz> ari: ok. we can do detailed discussion later
14:25:42 <kaz> ... how much functionality should be done by the end point
14:25:47 <kaz> q?
14:25:49 <kaz> ack a
14:25:50 <kaz> ack u
14:26:16 <kaz> uday: how we could address class of devices?
14:26:31 <kaz> ... they would need to talk with the GW
14:26:50 <McCool> q+ McCool
14:26:56 <kaz> ... we should keep in mind that "device" could be anything
14:26:58 <kaz> q?
14:27:07 <kaz> ack m
14:27:24 <kaz> mm: when/where should we have this discussion?
14:27:35 <kaz> yz: within the TF call?
14:28:15 <kaz> mm: would add this to the Scripting agenda
14:28:25 <kaz> ... architecture for restricted devices
14:29:00 <kaz> present+ Kazuo_Kajimoto, Victor_Charpeney
14:29:11 <kaz> [ adjourned ]
14:29:19 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:29:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:30:09 <kaz> s/Charpeney/Charpenay/
14:30:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:31:31 <kaz> Meeting: Web of Things IG
14:31:36 <kaz> Chair: Yongjing
14:31:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:31:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/23-wot-minutes.html kaz
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