20:53:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdwssn
20:53:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-sdwssn-irc
20:53:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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20:53:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
20:53:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
20:53:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
20:53:39 <trackbot> Date: 22 November 2016
20:54:01 <ahaller2> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:55:12 <ahaller2> present+ Armin Haller
20:58:58 <SimonCox> SimonCox has joined #sdwssn
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21:02:32 <RaulGarciaCastro> present+ RaulGarciaCastro
21:03:19 <Phila> My apologies but I'm driving (I've pulled over yo check meeting is wirking) so I xan't join the call
21:03:42 <ahaller2> s/yo/to
21:03:44 <SimonCox> present+ SimonCox
21:03:45 <kerry> present+ kerry
21:03:49 <ahaller2> s/wirking/working
21:03:54 <roba> present+
21:03:56 <ahaller2> s/xan't/can't
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21:05:28 <SimonCox> I executed my action https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/221 and also added a note to the related issue https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/86 - see table here: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Mapping_Table
21:05:40 <ahaller2> scribe: RaulGarciaCastro
21:05:55 <ahaller2> Approving last meeting's minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-sdwssn-minutes
21:06:00 <RaulGarciaCastro> topic: Last week minutes
21:06:03 <ahaller2> +1
21:06:04 <kerry> +1
21:06:09 <RaulGarciaCastro> Wasn’t there
21:06:11 <DanhLePhuoc> +1
21:06:14 <SimonCox> +1
21:06:18 <DanhLePhuoc> present+
21:06:23 <ahaller2> patent call: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
21:06:32 <roba> +1 - note its missing my name as present
21:06:36 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: Minutes approved
21:07:10 <ahaller2> topic: F2F5 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:F2F5
21:08:24 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: For SSN we are planning both days (reviews agenda)
21:09:02 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: … vote on the second day (but could change)
21:09:39 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: … we can take also the Friday 9:00 slot
21:10:05 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: … we should choose the issues to be discussed during the meeting
21:10:48 <ahaller2> q?
21:11:41 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: it seems that no one from the SSN group will be in person
21:12:41 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: if we think that we are not going to use some slot, better release it
21:13:22 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: the 4 hours will be enough for us
21:13:32 <ahaller2> q?
21:14:27 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: We should be prepared to put the issues in the document
21:14:28 <ahaller2> topic: Annotations (labels, comments in SOSA, i.e. Issue [ISSUE 86 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/86], pending comparison table prepared by Simon https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Mapping_Table
21:15:02 <kerry> +1
21:15:23 <ahaller2> +1 for simon!
21:16:41 <RaulGarciaCastro> SimonCox: the table contains the class names and comments from 4 main ontologies
21:17:00 <ClausStadler> ClausStadler has joined #sdwssn
21:17:08 <RaulGarciaCastro> SimonCox: … SOSA, SSN, O&M and om-lite
21:18:27 <RaulGarciaCastro> SimonCox: issue raised by Kerry: different comments in FeatureOfInterest
21:18:45 <ahaller2> q?
21:18:49 <RaulGarciaCastro> SimonCox: In the table I just focused on classes, not properties
21:19:43 <RaulGarciaCastro> SimonCox: For Observation I’ve included the ssn and ssnx classes
21:19:46 <ahaller2> q?
21:20:16 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: Let’s discuss FeatureOfInterest
21:20:37 <ClausStadler> present+ ClausStadler
21:20:45 <ahaller2> q?
21:21:11 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: It would be nice if we have the table for properties
21:21:45 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: … SSN recorded the provenance of term definitions; this should appear in the table to avoid losing the information
21:22:12 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: … in the ontology (in annotation properties)
21:23:17 <ahaller2> for featureOfInterest:
21:23:32 <ahaller2> skos:exactMatch 'featureOfInterest' [O&M - ISO/DIS 19156]
21:23:32 <ahaller2> 		                    http://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=41579
21:25:03 <RaulGarciaCastro> q+
21:25:07 <ahaller2> q?
21:25:15 <ahaller2> ack RaulGarciaCastro
21:25:50 <ahaller2> q+
21:25:56 <SimonCox> q+
21:26:06 <ahaller2> RaulGarciaCastro: in the sosa core I have to understand what ObservableProperty is
21:26:08 <roba> q+
21:26:15 <ahaller2> ack ahaller2
21:27:03 <ahaller2> ack ahaller
21:27:10 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: As an ontology engineer I understand the definition, from the web developer point of view it is understandable
21:27:54 <ahaller2> q?
21:27:57 <RaulGarciaCastro> SimonCox: The definition of feature from the spatial community maybe is not useful for the web community
21:28:06 <ahaller2> ack SimonCox
21:28:22 <kerry> q+
21:29:03 <ahaller2> +1 to simon
21:29:16 <ahaller2> ack roba
21:30:02 <RaulGarciaCastro> roba: Defining things is complex; in favour of the current definition
21:30:24 <RaulGarciaCastro> roba:  But, should the commitment be in text or formalised?
21:30:36 <ahaller2> ack kerry
21:30:50 <SimonCox> 'feature' has too much baggage - lets make it a smaller target, specific to its role in observations.
21:31:23 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: Don’t know the answer but let’s try to be consistent
21:31:34 <ahaller2> q?
21:31:53 <ahaller2> q+
21:32:22 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: Feature is a horrible word, but the reuse of the OGC models was deliberate
21:32:51 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: We could use another name, but using the same name and changing the definition is something I don’t like
21:34:41 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: Why can’t we do multiple annotations/comments? E.g., theoretical definition from O&M + a more convenient definition + examples embedded
21:35:02 <ahaller2> ack ahaller
21:35:42 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: SOSA already has comment and examples in different annotations, we can follow this approach
21:36:17 <kerry> q+
21:36:51 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: We changed Property to ObservableProperty to avoid misunderstandings in the web community
21:37:22 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: everyone to take a look in the table and comment directly in the wiki
21:37:34 <ahaller2> q?
21:37:37 <ahaller2> ack kerry
21:37:39 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: in a different color if possible
21:38:18 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: Renaming Property opens a whole can of worms
21:38:43 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: Yes, that’s issue 87
21:39:33 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: If we change annotations we may need to move them to SSN
21:39:36 <kerry> q+
21:39:43 <ahaller2> ack kerry
21:40:19 <ahaller2> topic: Progress Report on SpecGen https://github.com/specgen/specgen
21:40:59 <kerry> kerry notes that she *did* receive the email about the table of comments -- and did manage to look at it beforehand --- thks Simon
21:41:28 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: There are problems with hashes; other than that the tool does the trick (with manual fixing afterwards)
21:41:57 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: … have not tried with other languages
21:42:38 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: … I’ll try it with the whole SSN and let’s take a decision in next meeting
21:42:55 <ahaller2> q?
21:43:07 <ahaller2> topic: Decision on removing someValues from restriction on hasSubSystem [ISSUE 85 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/85]
21:43:08 <ClausStadler> In regard to languages: I see that Sosa in the current state is inconsistent of using @en, ^^xsd:string and neither on the literals.
21:45:41 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: the use of the existential restriction is redundant due to the universal restriction; Krzysztof sais that it affects reasoning efficiency
21:46:06 <RaulGarciaCastro> s /Krzysztof sais that it affects reasoning efficiency/Krzysztof sais that removing the restriction affects reasoning efficiency/
21:46:24 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: Anyone has experience in this so we can ask?
21:46:52 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: Krzysztof said that he would check and come back
21:46:59 <RaulGarciaCastro> s /sais/says/
21:48:02 <ahaller2> q?
21:48:25 <ahaller2> topic: observableProperty vs Property, i.e. [ISSUE 87 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/issues/87]
21:48:31 <kerry> action: Krzysztof to find out if existential restriction on hassubsystem  casuses poor reasoning performance
21:48:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-226 - Find out if existential restriction on hassubsystem  casuses poor reasoning performance [on Krzysztof Janowicz - due 2016-11-29].
21:49:08 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: The name was changed having in mind the web community
21:49:29 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: … but the meaning is the same as in SSN
21:51:23 <roba> q+
21:51:54 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: Coming back to issue 86, we don’t need a feature in SOSA. It is only used to bind the type of the property. Is it not enough with the object property? Can we remove the FeatureOfInterest class?
21:51:58 <ahaller2> https://github.com/w3c/sdw/blob/gh-pages/ssn/sosa-core-overview.pdf
21:54:37 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: Maybe we need to split the issues
21:54:56 <kerry> no
21:55:05 <kerry> no
21:55:45 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: No need to do so, it is not related to ObservableProperty
21:56:07 <ahaller2> ack roba
21:56:08 <RaulGarciaCastro> s /ahaller2: No need to do so/kerry: No need to do so/
21:57:15 <RaulGarciaCastro> roba: In practice it is useful to have the concept for people to understand, so I’m not in favour of removal
21:58:00 <kerry> q+
21:58:04 <ahaller2> q?
21:58:06 <RaulGarciaCastro> roba: What is an observable property and how is it related to a Feature? Right now the relationship Feature-Property does not appear
21:58:40 <ahaller2> ack kerry
21:59:14 <RaulGarciaCastro> roba: And differentiating the sample and the feature is also useful
21:59:39 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: Still, having the properties is enough; having the class does not add much
22:00:40 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: Can you change issue 87 and raise another one for the FeatureOfInterest class?
22:00:50 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: … kerry?
22:00:59 <RaulGarciaCastro> kerry: Sure
22:01:30 <ahaller2> q?
22:02:05 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: Next week we have to decide who will write which part of the document
22:02:10 <RaulGarciaCastro> ahaller2: Closing meeting
22:02:11 <ahaller2> thanks, bye!
22:02:12 <kerry> bye!
22:02:20 <RaulGarciaCastro> Bye!
22:02:26 <ClausStadler> bye!
22:03:09 <ahaller2> type RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:03:16 <ahaller2> RRSAgent, draft minutes
22:03:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/22-sdwssn-minutes.html ahaller2
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