IRC log of auto on 2016-11-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:01:22 [RRSAgent]
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17:01:22 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-auto-irc
17:01:40 [urata_access]
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17:02:01 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Paul_Boyes, Peter_Winzell, Shinjiro_Urata
17:02:27 [kaz]
present+ Adam_Crofts
17:05:01 [kaz]
Meeting: Automotive WG
17:05:06 [kaz]
Chair: Paul, Peter
17:06:05 [kaz]
present+ Patrick
17:06:12 [kaz]
present+ Song_Li
17:07:43 [kaz]
paul: don't have concrete agenda items but can talk about the updates
17:08:12 [kaz]
... spec issues, reviews, etc.
17:08:59 [kaz]
kaz: we can briefly check the status and confirm the policy
17:09:19 [kaz]
paul: Kevin and Adam for spec
17:09:39 [kaz]
... basically, VW has just joined W3C
17:09:44 [AdamC]
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17:10:19 [kaz]
... the question in Burlingame was that we were working on our Charter
17:10:29 [kaz]
present+ Kevin, Ted
17:10:57 [kaz]
... we have discussed with VW guys
17:11:29 [kaz]
... the Automotive BG is working on new proposals
17:11:49 [kaz]
... creates reports and donates ideas to the WG
17:12:00 [kaz]
... so the approach is working with the BG first
17:12:13 [kaz]
... happy to have another OEM
17:12:22 [kaz]
... that's my summary
17:12:55 [kaz]
ted: VIWI includes not only vehicle information but media information, etc.
17:13:31 [kaz]
... VW was interested in volunteering for the vehicle signal side as well
17:14:29 [kaz]
patrick: from our side, this is a good path to take
17:14:42 [kaz]
... don't want to influence the spec itself at the moment
17:15:12 [kaz]
... VIWI is something the BG could be interested
17:15:22 [kaz]
... we need feedback
17:15:35 [kaz]
... just vehicle information is not enough
17:15:50 [kaz]
... feedback from the BG and the community would make perfect sense
17:16:15 [kaz]
kevin: welcome VW's participation
17:16:18 [kaz]
... tx for joining us
17:16:30 [kaz]
... the RESTful interface is interesting
17:16:42 [kaz]
... working within the BG first would be a good approach
17:16:48 [kaz]
patrick: tx!
17:17:05 [kaz]
peter: really great to have VW on board!
17:17:28 [kaz]
paul: great!
17:17:56 [kaz]
... btw, I saw comments for the proposed new Charter
17:18:07 [kaz]
... what's the update?
17:18:19 [kaz]
ted: responded to the commenter
17:18:50 [kaz]
... initial misunderstanding was using cloud services from the vehicle using the interface
17:19:06 [kaz]
peter: Rudi made some statement
17:19:22 [kaz]
... found it's kind of defensive
17:19:46 [kaz]
... need to explain the misunderstood point
17:20:11 [kaz]
... didn't see any more responses other than Rudi and Wonsuk
17:20:30 [kaz]
ted: we should be fine
17:20:43 [kaz]
paul: only one objection?
17:20:44 [kaz]
ted: yes
17:21:17 [kaz]
paul: conversation with them?
17:21:25 [kaz]
ted: know the commenter
17:21:42 [kaz]
... will work for the objection
17:22:20 [kaz]
... we should incorporate feedback
17:22:52 [kaz]
... very busy this week but will talk with them
17:23:44 [kaz]
... another point is VW's submitting their VIWI proposal to W3C as a Member submission
17:24:10 [kaz]
... so that we can get feedback from the community
17:24:26 [kaz]
patrcick: how to do that?
17:24:36 [kaz]
ted: there is a specific procedure
17:24:44 [kaz]
... write a template for the submission
17:24:52 [kaz]
... can help you
17:25:34 [kaz]
patrick: we can do that but is that the most common way?
17:25:41 [kaz]
s/patrcick:/patrick:/
17:25:52 [kaz]
... would be easy to use the common path
17:26:23 [kaz]
... we need some kind of extra agreement within the company
17:27:00 [kaz]
ted: there are two paths: 1. BG report (discussion within the BG) and 2. Member submission
17:27:23 [kaz]
patrick: ok
17:27:36 [kaz]
paul: anything else on this topic?
17:27:38 [kaz]
(none)
17:27:51 [kaz]
paul: the next topic is issues with the spec
17:28:14 [kaz]
... JSON schema and WebIDL?
17:28:32 [kaz]
adam: proposal on equivalent way
17:28:41 [kaz]
... machine readable
17:29:16 [kaz]
... maybe we should go with the approach with WebIDL and think about how to apply JSON Schema
17:29:30 [kaz]
... JSON Schema is quite good way
17:29:52 [kaz]
kevin: pros and cons with the both
17:30:13 [Paul]
Paul has joined #auto
17:30:13 [Paul]
https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/99
17:30:46 [kaz]
patrick: there is always object definition
17:30:59 [kaz]
... JSON Schema on our side is the foundation
17:31:20 [kaz]
... could generate human readable WebIDL based on that
17:31:31 [kaz]
... we're generating that ourselves
17:31:39 [kaz]
adam: that's encouraging
17:32:05 [kaz]
paul: makes sense to me
17:33:17 [kaz]
kevin: good idea to change something obvious and see it
17:33:31 [kaz]
paul: what about the spec actions?
17:33:48 [kaz]
... any comments?
17:34:51 [kaz]
... simple implementations?
17:35:11 [kaz]
... testing?
17:35:18 [kaz]
q+
17:36:24 [kaz]
... that's the way to go
17:36:38 [kaz]
... have not got many comments for the FPWD yet
17:36:50 [kaz]
kevin: what about the client spec?
17:37:21 [kaz]
paul: Powell is busy for a while
17:37:56 [Paul]
https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/91
17:37:59 [kaz]
adam: can take an action item for issue 91
17:38:18 [kaz]
paul: there are quite a few action items
17:39:01 [kaz]
... should go through during the next call
17:39:18 [kaz]
... Dec. 6
17:39:30 [kaz]
... very late for Adam and Patrick, though
17:39:54 [kaz]
... and we have another action for the client spec and need to ping Powell
17:40:16 [kaz]
... high-level API for Web developers
17:41:19 [kaz]
kaz: regarding testing, Hira-san mentioned he and Urata san were interested in testing
17:41:36 [kaz]
urata: right
17:41:50 [kaz]
... I'm creating a server prototype for initial testing
17:42:03 [kaz]
... can make contribution for our testing
17:42:07 [kaz]
paul: great
17:42:24 [kaz]
urata: one question is that the W3C testing environment is for usual Web browsers
17:42:42 [kaz]
... on the other hand, the vehicle spec is not for usual browsers
17:42:52 [kaz]
paul: we have a framework for testing servers
17:42:59 [kaz]
... maybe I can provide that
17:43:07 [kaz]
q?
17:43:08 [kaz]
q-
17:43:21 [kaz]
... let me ask Jeff about that
17:43:33 [kaz]
... might help since there is same patter
17:43:37 [kaz]
s/patter/pattern/
17:43:40 [kaz]
urata: great
17:43:56 [kaz]
... also there is test mechanism for Node.js
17:44:04 [kaz]
... maybe that would be useful
17:44:15 [kaz]
paul: Patrick, do you have any mechanism?
17:44:23 [kaz]
patrick: regular Web tools
17:44:37 [kaz]
... we use REST
17:44:50 [kaz]
paul: right
17:45:00 [kaz]
... will talk with our QA team
17:45:22 [kaz]
... may have example tests
17:45:51 [kaz]
patrick: postman automated tests
17:46:06 [kaz]
... continuous integration
17:46:23 [kaz]
... UI tool
17:46:41 [kaz]
... we're doing HTTP and WebSocket is extension with our implementation, though
17:46:53 [kaz]
paul: the basic framework is similar
17:47:16 [kaz]
... would be helpful
17:47:38 [kaz]
peter: what would we test?
17:47:49 [kaz]
... implementation or spec?
17:48:21 [kaz]
paul: basically testing the sections of the spec
17:48:45 [kaz]
peter: ok. we're not testing the implementations
17:49:03 [kaz]
paul: implementations meet the spec
17:49:18 [kaz]
peter: an issue on testing I created on GitHub
17:49:29 [kaz]
paul: issue 75
17:49:42 [kaz]
https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/75
17:49:48 [Paul]
https://github.com/w3c/automotive/issues/75
17:50:01 [kaz]
peter: Urata-san, can you describe what are you planning to do?
17:50:09 [kaz]
urata: about the testing?
17:50:11 [kaz]
peter: yes
17:50:25 [kaz]
urata: creating a prototype implementation first
17:50:34 [kaz]
... and then create test suite
17:50:46 [kaz]
... that's what I want to try
17:50:59 [kaz]
paul: one of the deliverables
17:51:23 [kaz]
... we need two implementations
17:51:45 [kaz]
... the test need to be doable
17:52:25 [ted]
kaz: we need to be able to point to two implementations of the spec
17:52:42 [kaz]
... to see implementability and interoperability of the spec
17:53:12 [kaz]
kevin: one thing to see is VSS implementation could be a reference one
17:53:50 [kaz]
paul: test against mach server and test against data generator
17:54:05 [kaz]
... what are you doing with VSS, Urata-san?
17:54:11 [kaz]
... how do you implement it?
17:54:23 [kaz]
urata: I'm creating a VSS server using Node.js
17:54:43 [kaz]
... need some data source as an alternative of the actual vehicle
17:55:02 [kaz]
... can test the implementation using the mocked-up data
17:55:16 [kaz]
... so I have a VSS server and an emulation server
17:55:20 [kaz]
paul: great
17:55:42 [kaz]
... sounds like ACCESS is doing an implementation
17:55:49 [kaz]
... Melco as well, Peter
17:56:18 [kaz]
... VSS as a data model
17:56:36 [kaz]
... people can contribute to implementations
17:56:41 [kaz]
... I would do my best as well
17:58:17 [kaz]
... next meeting on Dec. 6
17:59:02 [kaz]
kaz: regarding testing, I'll ask TV guys about their knowledge about testing environment as well
17:59:04 [kaz]
paul: ok
17:59:07 [kaz]
[ adjourned ]
17:59:14 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
17:59:36 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:59:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-auto-minutes.html kaz
18:00:43 [kaz]
i/concrete agenda/topic: Agenda/
18:01:36 [kaz]
s/Agenda/Agenda and Welcoming VW/
18:01:39 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:01:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-auto-minutes.html kaz
18:02:17 [kaz]
i/comments for the/topic: WG Charter Update/
18:02:19 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:02:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-auto-minutes.html kaz
18:03:31 [kaz]
i/another point/topic: Possible Member Submission for VIWI Proposal/
18:03:32 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:03:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-auto-minutes.html kaz
18:04:36 [kaz]
i/the next topic is/topic: Issues with the Spec/
18:04:36 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:04:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-auto-minutes.html kaz
18:05:22 [kaz]
i/regarding testing/topic: Testing/
18:05:24 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:05:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/15-auto-minutes.html kaz
18:06:47 [kaz]
rrsagent, bye
18:06:47 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items