13:57:34 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 13:57:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/11-dwbp-irc 13:57:35 deirdrelee has joined #dwbp 13:57:36 RRSAgent, make logs 351 13:57:36 Zakim has joined #dwbp 13:57:38 Zakim, this will be DWBP 13:57:38 ok, trackbot 13:57:39 Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference 13:57:39 Date: 11 November 2016 13:57:40 laufer has joined #dwbp 13:57:54 present+ laufer 13:57:57 trackbot start meeting 13:57:59 RRSAgent, make logs 351 13:58:01 Zakim, this will be DWBP 13:58:01 ok, trackbot 13:58:02 Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference 13:58:02 Date: 11 November 2016 13:58:12 present+ deirdrelee 13:58:18 present+ newton 13:58:19 present+ 13:58:33 chair: deirdrelee 13:58:56 Present+ Caroline_ 13:59:00 ericstephan has joined #dwbp 13:59:20 chair: deirdrelee 13:59:23 PWinstanley has joined #dwbp 13:59:30 present+ annette_g 13:59:40 present+ PWinstanley 13:59:42 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20161111 14:00:28 present+ laufer 14:00:45 scribe: car 14:00:53 scribe: Caroline_ 14:01:16 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20161111 14:01:28 scribeNick: Caroline_ 14:01:46 -> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20161111 Least meeting minutes 14:01:50 PROPOSED: Resolve minutes of last week'ls meeting https://www.w3.org/2016/10/28-dwbp-minutes 14:02:16 Present+ hadleybeeman 14:02:47 +1 14:02:48 Eric_Kauz has joined #DWBP 14:02:49 present+ ericstephan 14:02:50 +1 14:02:50 +1 14:02:51 +1 14:02:57 +1 14:02:58 +0 14:03:02 wasn't here 14:03:06 RESOLVED: Resolve minutes of last week's meeting https://www.w3.org/2016/10/28-dwbp-minutes 14:03:09 0 (not present) 14:03:11 +0 14:03:26 topic: BP implementations 14:03:39 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RhMGyG0ZYb73RkteYr39Xqt7f5xi0BUQmSiDqjkHOSA/edit#gid=853876221 14:03:46 Caroline_: thank you for helping to gather evidence 14:03:55 .. we have put this form together 14:04:58 ... metadata BP, it is interesting to see that BP1 has high number of evidence, 26 now 14:05:08 last meeting minutes - I am not included in the minutes but was there (see log) - so can it be amended? 14:05:10 ... for the others in metadata, we also have good number 14:05:19 ... licence bps has a lot of evidence 14:05:29 ... as does provenance, quality and versioning 14:05:44 ... for identifiers, we only have 5 14:05:51 ... we wanted to flag this one for discussion 14:06:03 ... format and vocabulary are okay 14:06:22 ... data access is also BPs we have flagged, low number of evidence 14:06:52 Bill's comment: "Too difficult to test in a meaningful way. In this system, no datasets have yet been taken offline, so the archiving process has not been developed." 14:06:54 ... then the one we are most concerned about - data preservation, it only has the minimum number of evidence 14:07:14 ... newton highlighted a comment from bill in relation to this 14:07:24 ... would like to discuss with the group 14:07:46 ... just to finish, we have enough evidence for remainder BPs 14:07:53 ... thanks for all your help 14:08:55 q+ 14:08:56 deirdrelee: data access and data preservation have low evidences numbers 14:09:07 ... does anyone have any question? 14:09:10 ack deirdrelee 14:09:27 deirdrelee: maybe for data preservation we should be targeting different people 14:09:35 ... publishers who are in the archiving business 14:09:39 good point deirdrelee +1 14:09:51 ... they might be different stakeholders that might help us getting evidences 14:10:02 ... do you know people that deal with archives? 14:10:06 ack me 14:10:27 phila: the people we know are the people we are already reaching, such as Christopher 14:10:37 ... he was before he went to BBC 14:11:11 ... as Bill said it is hard because people are not doing that yet 14:11:27 ... it is not just numbers of how many evidences do we need 14:11:32 ... it is also about quality 14:12:04 ... Caroline_ pointed out that the BP we have the most evidences is metadata 14:12:07 not everything was evaluated for every BP 14:12:09 riccardoAlbertoni has joined #DWBP 14:12:16 ... it is frightening how many we still don't have 14:12:49 ... some of the organizations we looked at are very important and gave us good evidences 14:13:11 ... we should have at least one of the organizations the W3C Director mentioned by name 14:13:23 .... the spreeadsheet we have is good 14:13:38 we do have wikidata and schema.org. I agree with the need for collect evidences from dbpedia and imdb 14:13:39 ... I am not worried about having a couple lower 14:13:48 ... about numbers I think we are okay 14:14:02 ... I am worried about the quality, so we need to put more organizations 14:14:14 q+ 14:14:50 deirdrelee: what is next step plans? 14:15:02 present+ riccardoAlbertoni 14:15:40 Caroline_: herbert will come back with feedback on preservation by nov 21st. we had planned to have all evidence by yesterday, but if the group agrees to keep the process open, we can have a final sprint 14:15:59 ... we can then provide the final implementation report in html 14:16:21 phila: don't get hung up on the html, if you can generate it easily, fine. but don't spend whole day on it 14:16:31 ack Caroline_ 14:16:47 https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-implementations/ 14:16:51 hadleybeeman: I have taken wiki pages as implementation report 14:16:53 q+ 14:17:17 phila: need to have confidence it will still be there in 5 yrs timem 14:17:25 q- 14:18:01 https://www.w3.org/2011/gld/wiki/ORG_Implementations 14:18:16 hadleybeeman: this link is much less formal 14:18:19 phila: that is a good example, but it is for multiple docs, so don't feel compelled for it to be that detailed 14:18:45 phila: I asked Martin's help as well 14:18:45 phila working on real time as well... 14:20:01 deirdrelee: if you agree we can wait until the 21st and finish the report on the 23rd 14:21:36 phila: if we have the implementation report ready on November 23rd we can have a call on the 25th and then have the transition 14:22:06 ... we will have another call with the director and based on the evidence we have he might proceed as a candidate recommendation 14:22:19 ... AC member will review and we must respond them 14:22:31 ... hopeful they will be only editorial comments 14:22:57 ... the problem is that takes us to Christmas 14:23:18 ... no one here can predict what the proposed recommentation review by the membership will be 14:23:35 ... it is unusual to don't have any comments 14:23:38 PR: http://www.w3.org/2015/Process-20150901/#rec-pr 14:23:39 q+ 14:23:49 hadleybeeman: PR is 28 days long 14:24:18 PWinstanley has joined #dwbp 14:24:18 phila: the Western hemisfere shuts from Dec 16 until January 2nd? 14:24:40 ... another thing I want to hightlight is that once you get the PR is done 14:24:44 PWinstanley_ has joined #dwbp 14:24:55 present+ PWinstanley 14:25:13 ... riccardoAlbertoni, Antoine and ericstephan mentioned we would have another version of the vocabs 14:25:33 q+ if the group ends and the document is in PR... does it mean the document can't become a recommendation? 14:25:33 ... if you do have time I strongly suggest we vote on the updated version of the 2 vocabs 14:25:49 ack Caroline_ 14:26:14 q+ newton 14:26:52 sorry i did not get when is the last chance to vote for vocabularies, would you mind repeating it? 14:26:53 q+ 14:27:13 phila: Friday the 25th is okay to have the report finished and then have the call with the director on the 1st week of December 14:27:20 q+ 14:27:23 ... at this stage let's keep it 14:27:39 ak newton 14:27:56 Ack newton 14:27:57 just an fyi, 25th is a US holiday... I can be on but best also check with annette_g 14:28:01 q- 14:28:04 ack newton 14:28:34 phila: you can only make editorial changes now 14:28:39 ... not content changes 14:28:53 ... it is the last chance the group has to make any comments 14:29:23 ... once you have the review from the membership if there are only editorial changes to be made it will be a recommendation 14:29:27 Q+ 14:30:07 deirdrelee: we can start working on the implementation report right way 14:30:14 ack deirdrelee 14:31:09 hadleybeeman: it took us a while to organize the call with the director 14:31:20 phila: I will send a message to him 14:31:26 q? 14:31:32 ack hadleybeeman 14:31:48 phila: if we have comments during the CR we have to make sure to answer them 14:32:01 ... we also need to record the comments 14:32:15 ... what you did before on the wiki is fine 14:32:37 action to phila to get some dates to the director call 14:32:37 Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at . 14:32:53 action phila to get some dates to the director call 14:32:54 Created ACTION-299 - Get some dates to the director call [on Phil Archer - due 2016-11-18]. 14:33:29 action Caroline_ editors will address the comments we will receive during PR 14:33:29 Error finding 'Caroline_'. You can review and register nicknames at . 14:34:10 action Caroline editors will address the comments we will receive during PR 14:34:11 Created ACTION-300 - Editors will address the comments we will receive during pr [on Caroline Burle - due 2016-11-18]. 14:34:50 action Newton editors to prepare the Implementation Report 14:34:50 Created ACTION-301 - Editors to prepare the implementation report [on Newton Calegari - due 2016-11-18]. 14:35:14 action phila adding high profile evidences 14:35:15 Created ACTION-302 - Adding high profile evidences [on Phil Archer - due 2016-11-18]. 14:36:07 q+ 14:36:24 q+ 14:36:43 Twitter API is actually very good 14:37:01 newton: about the Twitter evidence 14:37:22 ... instead of analizyng all the set annette_g analized the APIs 14:37:40 phila: what it looks lke is that it doesn't even provide metadata 14:37:46 ... don't leave like this 14:37:59 ... at the moment it looks like it fails most of the BPs 14:38:13 newton: there are more datasets analized the same way 14:38:18 I focused on specific parts I did not analyze the entire site in many cases 14:38:20 ... the Government of Alagoas 14:38:29 ... Eric's datasets as well 14:38:29 q+ 14:38:42 annette_g: eerything I put on I went sraight to the BP 14:38:57 I did the same, just very targetted dataset or resource against a BP 14:39:04 deirdrelee: would make send to make a colum to show that that dataset was to analyse that BP 14:39:18 ack newton 14:39:27 ack annette_g 14:39:29 annette_g: I think the table we present can be misinterpreted that we are trying to evaluate the websites 14:39:37 ... the point is to get evidences to the BPs 14:39:37 +1 annette_g 14:39:49 PWinstanley_: I agree 14:39:52 q+ 14:39:53 q+ 14:40:03 ack ericstephan 14:40:04 ack ericstephan 14:40:17 ericstephan: I agree with annette_g and that is the approach I have been taking 14:40:44 ... it is easier to look for specific BPs we need to show evidence 14:40:50 q? 14:41:00 ack Caroline_ 14:41:06 q+ 14:42:05 what I found was interesting was the WAYS implementations actually carried out the best practice 14:42:06 +1 to Annette's idea 14:42:08 q+ 14:42:16 q+ to talk about JSON 14:42:37 Caroline_: how to show the table or the evidences that doesn't seem that we are evaluating the datasets, but actually getting evidences that our BPs are actually good 14:42:51 annette_g: changing the table, maybe creating a list 14:43:09 ack deirdrelee 14:43:11 deirdrelee: write an exaplnation about the methodology we used 14:43:42 phila: if you have a object to each BP or a list of implementation you can write a script to make it easier 14:44:07 ... you can use a selection of things, which would not necessary a table 14:44:10 +1 phila to the json idea 14:44:19 ... if you do a litle bit of hacking :) 14:44:32 newton: I will use tools to do that 14:44:36 -> https://www.w3.org/2013/share-psi/lg/CzechRepublic/ Czech Republic 14:45:02 phila: that page lists all the BPs 14:45:55 newton: we will discuss among the editors and try to base the Implementation Report on something like that 14:46:04 q+ to ask if i got it right: the 25th nov is the last chance date for voting vocabularies 14:46:11 ack annette_g 14:46:17 we'll point on the Implementation Report about the methodology as well 14:46:30 annette_g: if we have 30 implementations of a given BP is there any value of listing all those? 14:46:42 hadleybeeman: it helps to demonstrate to the director that they have alue 14:46:47 s/alue/value 14:46:49 q? 14:46:50 q+ 14:47:03 ... I think it is better to include as much implementations as possible 14:47:23 which sampling is biased toward the order of the list :-) 14:47:32 annette_g: since the form was so large it became dificult 14:47:44 hadleybeeman: we can use as an explanation if needed 14:47:48 deirdrelee: it is a good point 14:47:48 q- 14:47:51 ack phila 14:47:58 ack riccardoAlbertoni 14:47:58 riccardoAlbertoni, you wanted to ask if i got it right: the 25th nov is the last chance date for voting vocabularies 14:48:00 ack riccardoAlbertoni 14:48:14 riccardoAlbertoni: did I got it right: the 25th nov is the last chance date for voting vocabularies? 14:48:16 phila: it is right 14:48:35 ... this meeting in 2 weeks time will be the last meeting we will have 14:48:52 ... we can vote to the transition for the BP document and the changes on the vocabs documents 14:49:12 ... if you make any changes I suggest it have to be done very soon so the WG can have a look 14:49:16 I just added four memento examples for BP 11 to my spreadsheet 14:49:29 thank you annette_g :) 14:49:39 riccardoAlbertoni: there are comments that we received 14:49:48 ... would be a good idea to consider them 14:50:49 ack ericstephan 14:50:58 ericstephan: question to the BP editors 14:50:58 ack ericstephan 14:51:17 q+ 14:51:22 ... the evidences I found was based on a target to getting evidences 14:51:31 q- 14:51:33 newton: it would be very much helpful 14:52:09 deirdrelee: could you talk about the Workshop to be held in Amsterdan? 14:52:13 Topic: SDSVoc https://www.w3.org/2016/11/sdsvoc/agenda 14:52:21 phila: the link of the agenda is above 14:52:33 ... the motivation for this workshop there are multiple 14:52:37 Unfortunately, I won´t go... :( 14:52:53 ... there are a lot of evidences that DCAT needs a WG 14:53:21 ... one of the reasons for teh Workshop is because it should start a WG and that is a continuation of this WG 14:54:00 ... more interestinly form a eng point of view is that we dont'have a agreed way to provide a machine readable format 14:54:29 ... to see if you can link automaticaly 14:54:32 ... datasets 14:54:47 ... I'd expect to point stuff that already exists 14:55:10 ... you should be able to request data, particularly metadata 14:55:32 ... "can you give me the metadata record using DCAT, or CKAN, etc" 14:55:46 ... the workshop is a success WG to this 14:56:05 ... in terms of the agenda day 1 is a lot about DCAT 14:56:14 ... day 2 is about content negotiation 14:56:23 ... and what we will do in a new WG 14:56:30 -> https://www.w3.org/2016/11/sdsvoc/attendees Attendee list 14:56:32 deirdrelee: a lot for 2 days! 14:57:38 ruben, ivan... 14:58:01 okay, take care all! 14:58:09 deirdrelee: thank you everyone for attending today! 14:58:15 bye, good weekend! 14:58:19 bye all... good sun for all... 14:58:23 ... we will have another meeting on November 25th 14:58:35 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:58:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/11-dwbp-minutes.html phila 14:58:35 bye! 14:58:41 annette_g has left #dwbp 14:59:19 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:21:29 Zakim has left #dwbp