15:02:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
15:02:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/10-tt-irc
15:02:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:02:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
15:02:58 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:02:59 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
15:02:59 <trackbot> Date: 10 November 2016
15:03:12 <nigel> Present: Andreas, Glenn, Thierry, NIgel
15:03:15 <nigel> s/NI/Ni
15:03:17 <nigel> Chair: Nigel
15:03:21 <nigel> scribe: nigel
15:04:48 <pal> pal has joined #tt
15:05:18 <nigel> Present+ Pierre
15:06:21 <mike> mike has joined #tt
15:07:38 <nigel> Topic: This Meeting
15:08:31 <nigel> Present+ Mike
15:09:22 <nigel> nigel: Today we have F2F planning, IMSC, Profiles Registry, TTML issues. AOB?
15:10:22 <nigel> mike: Can we look at TTML profiles registry today or on 24th?
15:10:25 <nigel> nigel: Sure.
15:11:05 <nigel> group: No AOB
15:11:58 <nigel> nigel: Any views on duration of this meeting? I've put 1 hour down on the agenda for
15:12:56 <nigel> ... meetings going forward but the 1.5 hour meetings have been productive and we still
15:12:59 <nigel> ... have a lot to do.
15:13:15 <nigel> Andreas: In general it will be hard for me to attend for longer than 1 hour.
15:13:38 <nigel> Topic: F2F planning
15:14:01 <nigel> nigel: You'll have seen I've asked for registration by 23rd December at http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-jan-2017
15:14:16 <nigel> nigel: There was an action point for me to check in with David Singer re WebVTT and if
15:14:37 <nigel> ... he will attend. He tells me he does not need agenda time at the f2f for WebVTT at present,
15:14:41 <nigel> ... though he may attend.
15:15:14 <atai> atai has joined #tt
15:15:29 <nigel> Topic: IMSC
15:15:44 <nigel> action-484?
15:15:44 <trackbot> action-484 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft a response liaison to dvb thanking them for incoming and requesting more details re timeline -- due 2016-10-27 -- OPEN
15:15:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/484
15:16:18 <nigel> nigel: See thread beginning at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2016Nov/0000.html (member only)
15:18:14 <nigel> pal: First question is are we happy with the proposed roadmap of IMSC 1.1 dealing with a
15:18:24 <nigel> ... small number of urgent requests such that those requests do not cause an IMSC 1.1
15:18:26 <glenn> glenn has joined #tt
15:18:39 <nigel> ... document to be incompatible with IMSC 1 processors, and then an IMSC2?
15:18:47 <nigel> glenn: Do we have a roadmap document draft?
15:18:49 <atai> +1
15:19:07 <nigel> pal: No, the DVB response is prompting us to consider that.
15:19:40 <nigel> nigel: I'm happy with that proposed roadmap.
15:20:08 <nigel> glenn: Question: Right now the features for IMSC 1.1 is disparity and possible bug fixes?
15:20:18 <nigel> pal: Also safeCropArea, which was the DVB request.
15:20:19 <atai> Andreas: I am also happy with the proposed roadmap.
15:20:59 <nigel> Glenn: Absent TTML2 your working plan is to copy the text from the TTML2 ED/WD into a
15:21:05 <nigel> ... draft of IMSC1.1?
15:21:18 <nigel> pal: I don't want to say too much about that at this time because there are probably discussions
15:21:33 <nigel> ... to be had there. I don't have the solution to that problem but I think we can solve it.
15:21:53 <nigel> ... For example in what namespace would we put those new features, in an IMSC namespace,
15:22:00 <nigel> ... new or old, or a TTML namespace etc.?
15:22:06 <nigel> ... That's for us to define.
15:22:14 <nigel> glenn: Right now there is no TTML2 namespace.
15:22:32 <atai> q+
15:23:12 <nigel> glenn: The proposed roadmap sounds reasonable.
15:23:35 <nigel> ack atai
15:24:05 <nigel> mike: Pierre set a good constraint not to harm existing IMSC 1 decoders. I'm concerned
15:24:36 <nigel> ... about inevitable feature creep if we do not set bounds. We should not assume that
15:24:46 <nigel> ... disparity will be needed for IMSC 1.1.
15:26:37 <nigel> nigel: Well one form of boundary here is time - the draft text asks for responses in about
15:26:48 <nigel> ... one month, and we also plan for a WD in January.
15:26:58 <nigel> mike: That works for me. I should also have said this seems like a good idea to me.
15:27:26 <nigel> tmichel: I have no issues with this.
15:27:37 <nigel> nigel: I declare we have consensus for this proposed roadmap.
15:31:15 <nigel> pal: [shares screen and edits text live] (everyone can see this who is on the call)
15:34:45 <nigel> group: [reviews text while being edited]
15:36:59 <atai> q+
15:43:46 <nigel> q-
15:43:49 <nigel> q- atai
15:52:24 <nigel> nigel: From the Charter: The Group will develop and publish a new version of IMSC that is compatible with TTML 2 and will address the concerns of backward compatibility with prior versions of IMSC.
15:54:10 <nigel> nigel: Reminder of DVB liaison received 30 Sep: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2016Sep/0001.html
15:58:52 <nigel> group: [discussion about inclusion/exclusion of TTML2 in the liaison text]
16:12:40 <nigel> group: [comes to a compromise that mentions TTML2 without drawing focus away from the core task of requesting input on IMSC1.1]
16:13:23 <nigel> mike: Who is this going to?
16:14:06 <nigel> pal: Definitely DVB (with some extra introduction), SMPTE, maybe EBU, ATSC, CTA...
16:14:08 <nigel> nigel: ARIB?
16:14:39 <nigel> mike: They have a TTML based specification.
16:14:48 <nigel> nigel: We are at liberty to send ARIB a liaison.
16:14:56 <nigel> glenn: Are we going to mention safeCropArea to DVB?
16:15:10 <nigel> pal: In the specific message to DVB we will add that.
16:15:13 <nigel> glenn: Okay that works.
16:15:36 <nigel> pal: What about the MPEG CMAF effort?
16:16:09 <nigel> mike: MPEG ought to be informed, but you won't get a response until end of January.
16:16:15 <nigel> pal: If informing them is useful let's do it.
16:16:44 <nigel> mike: I would say so. MPEG is a little more formal in terms of transmission. I'm happy to do it again but don't want to step on anyone's toes.
16:17:17 <nigel> pal: APEX?
16:17:31 <nigel> nigel: In the past we talked about reaching out to APEX but decided not to, I'm not sure why.
16:17:41 <nigel> mike: They have not reached out to us, so it would be odd to.
16:17:44 <nigel> pal: What about DECE?
16:17:50 <nigel> mike: They would care, so we should.
16:18:34 <nigel> nigel: Please could you send the updated text to member-tt so I can refer to it in the minutes?
16:19:23 <nigel> -> XXXX
16:20:01 <nigel> Topic: TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial actions etc
16:20:14 <nigel> glenn: I want to thank Pierre for his recent issue postings - it's interesting that most of them
16:20:24 <nigel> ... apply to TTML1 so we are getting latent scrutiny of semantics that probably have been
16:20:29 <nigel> ... long overdue!
16:20:37 <nigel> pal: I'm glad you're enjoying it!
16:21:07 <nigel> nigel: I updated https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/218
16:21:27 <nigel> glenn: I'm close to merging that, I'm trying to wrap up another pull request ahead of that.
16:21:44 <nigel> nigel: I also raised https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/222
16:22:58 <nigel> nigel: I'm assuming that the default relation of percentage values in padding should be to
16:23:03 <nigel> ... the containing element.
16:23:08 <nigel> glenn: I'm okay with that.
16:23:15 <nigel> nigel: (because that matches CSS)
16:24:18 <nigel> glenn: I think that's just an oversight.
16:24:35 <nigel> nigel: There is prior implementation here because one of the EBU profiles of TTML permits
16:25:34 <nigel> ... padding on p and span but does not specify percentage values. I think we should
16:25:46 <nigel> ... align with CSS and if EBU has a view they should come back to us.
16:25:53 <nigel> atai: I have not had a chance to consider this yet.
16:25:58 <nigel> Topic: Unicode Liaison
16:26:36 <nigel> tmichel: I asked Richard Ishida to look at this and he has begun discussions with Unicode,
16:26:46 <nigel> ... who will revisit this next week and get in touch with us.
16:27:04 <nigel> Topic: AOB
16:27:27 <nigel> pal: Quick request: can we add a TTML1 label on the TTML2 github? Or should we continue
16:27:32 <nigel> ... to create two issues.
16:27:39 <nigel> s/s./s?
16:27:50 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
16:27:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/10-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:28:14 <nigel> s|XXXX|https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2016Nov/0015.html (members only)
16:28:32 <nigel> glenn: I've been creating duplicate issues.
16:29:00 <nigel> nigel: By the way the resolution in TTML1 may be different to that in TTML2.
16:29:15 <nigel> glenn: Also the TTML1 issue may be left open even if we have closed the TTML2 issue.
16:29:24 <nigel> pal: We can continue doing it the way we have been doing it.
16:30:55 <nigel> nigel: By the way we were going to make a new WD of TTML2 - what is the status on that?
16:31:05 <nigel> glenn: I plan to do that by Nov 15, and have made some progress.
16:31:15 <nigel> nigel: We're at the end of the meeting, so thank you everyone! [adjourns meeting]
16:31:19 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/10-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:34:25 <nigel> s/... new or old, or a TTML/pal: new or old, or a TTML
16:36:23 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
16:36:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/10-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:37:39 <nigel> scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
16:37:40 <nigel> rrsagent, make minutes
16:37:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/10-tt-minutes.html nigel
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