15:51:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:51:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/08-wai-wcag-irc
15:51:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:51:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:51:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
15:51:35 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:51:35 <trackbot> Date: 08 November 2016
15:51:36 <AWK> Chair: AWK
15:51:39 <AWK> Zakim,agenda?
15:51:39 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:51:40 <Zakim> 3. New Github issues -https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/GithubIssuesNov12016/. [from Joshue108]
15:51:49 <AWK> Zakim, clear agenda
15:51:49 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:52:19 <AWK> agenda+ Charter status update
15:52:27 <AWK> agenda+ Charter edit re: DPUB
15:52:40 <AWK> agenda+ CFC Responses
15:52:59 <AWK> agenda+ Survey of GitHub items for review: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Misc20161025/results (#'s 1-4)
15:53:12 <AWK> agenda+ Silver Task Force items
15:54:18 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:54:18 <Zakim> Present: AWK, marcjohlic, JaEunJemma, Kathy, Kim_D, Makoto, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Rachael, Greg_Lowney, DavidMacDonald, Lauriat, jeanne, Laura, Joshue108, bbailey, Mike_Gower, JF,
15:54:21 <Zakim> ... `1,  1
15:54:22 <laura> laura has joined #wai-wcag
15:54:31 <AWK> Present: AWK
15:54:34 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:54:34 <Zakim> Present: AWK
15:56:12 <jeanne> present+ jeanne
15:56:37 <AWK> regrets+ John_Foliot, Rachael, Bruce, Makoto, KathyW
15:57:03 <mattg> mattg has joined #wai-wcag
15:57:31 <Greg> Greg has joined #wai-wcag
15:57:46 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #wai-wcag
15:59:00 <AWK> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:59:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
15:59:21 <AWK> rrsagent, set logs public
15:59:23 <laura> audio connection doesn’t seem to be working in WebEx
16:01:01 <Wilco> Wilco has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:35 <jemma> jemma has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:48 <Joshue108> present+ Joshue108
16:02:16 <gowerm> gowerm has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:00 <Srini> Srini has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:00 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
16:04:00 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
16:04:01 <Zakim> 1. Charter status update [from AWK]
16:04:01 <Zakim> 2. Charter edit re: DPUB [from AWK]
16:04:01 <Zakim> 3. CFC Responses [from AWK]
16:04:01 <Zakim> 4. Survey of GitHub items for review: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Misc20161025/results (#'s 1-4) [from AWK]
16:04:01 <Zakim> 5. Silver Task Force items [from AWK]
16:04:06 <Greg> present+ Greg_Lowney
16:04:11 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:41 <Srini> +Srini
16:06:27 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:33 <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic
16:06:51 <jemma> present+ JaeunJemmaKu
16:07:02 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
16:07:09 <Jim> Jim has joined #wai-wcag
16:07:11 <AWK> Scribe: Laura
16:07:22 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:08:09 <alastairc> alastairc has joined #wai-wcag
16:08:15 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 1
16:08:15 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Charter status update" taken up [from AWK]
16:08:51 <gowerm> present+ Mike Gower
16:08:58 <laura> AWK: Right now it is proceeding well.
16:08:59 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #WAI-WCAG
16:09:37 <Kim_D> Kim_D has joined #wai-wcag
16:09:38 <David_MacDonald> David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag
16:09:39 <laura> …8 votes accespt as is. 1 making suggestions. 0 objections.
16:10:08 <laura> …let your AC rep know they shoud give thier comments.
16:10:16 <AWK> AC Reps: https://www.w3.org/Member/ACList
16:10:21 <Ryladog_> Ryladog_ has joined #wai-wcag
16:10:30 <laura> present+ Laura
16:10:40 <Ryladog_> Present+ Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:11:08 <Ryladog_> There is no audio
16:11:12 <laura> …link is member login
16:11:38 <laura> AWK: any questions?
16:11:42 <AWK> Zakim, next item
16:11:42 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Charter edit re: DPUB" taken up [from AWK]
16:11:43 <laura> none.
16:12:17 <laura> AWK: one comment suggesting link to DPub
16:12:43 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2016/11/proposed-ag-charter
16:13:34 <laura> …in section 4.1 Groups that we coordinate with
16:13:36 <jemma> jemma has joined #wai-wcag
16:14:02 <laura> …oversight that we didn’t add DPub link.
16:14:05 <Kim_D> +KimD
16:14:09 <MichaelC> proposed liaison statement: Digital Publishing Interest Group: Coordinate on accessibility guidelines that impact digital publishing.
16:14:27 <laura> …people on list agreed to add.
16:14:46 <laura> …Any comments?
16:14:51 <gowerm> add in +1
16:15:05 <alastairc> +1
16:15:09 <jeanne> +1 to add
16:15:13 <Kim_D> +1 to add
16:15:21 <laura> +1
16:15:22 <jemma> +1 to add
16:15:22 <marcjohlic> +1
16:15:26 <Greg> +1
16:15:35 <kirkwood> +1
16:15:40 <David_MacDonald> +1
16:15:46 <Srini> +1
16:15:47 <Joshue108> +1
16:15:57 <Jan> +1
16:16:12 <Ryladog_> +1
16:16:33 <Ryladog_> q+
16:16:50 <Joshue108> q?
16:17:02 <laura> …no coodintion listed with SVG group. They work more with APA grou.
16:17:12 <MichaelC> present+
16:17:17 <Joshue108> ack ryla
16:17:52 <laura> Katie: Agree. Are we working with SCs or techniques?
16:17:58 <laura> AWK: either
16:18:16 <laura> Katie: do we want to add that?
16:18:42 <Joshue108> +1 to MC
16:19:08 <laura> MC: open ened. Want to make athe least changes as possible aas this is in review.
16:19:23 <laura> …any changes can cause issues,
16:19:42 <kirkwood> present+
16:20:46 <laura> MC: increases risks to change things.
16:21:24 <laura> Katie: okay.
16:21:52 <laura> AWK: info in charter will allow DPub requirements.
16:22:12 <laura> …we are not limited.
16:22:53 <Joshue108> q?
16:22:55 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
16:23:14 <laura> RESOLUTION: Add to Charter: "Digital Publishing Interest Group: Coordinate on accessibility guidelines that impact digital publishing."
16:23:42 <MoeKraft> present+
16:24:01 <laura> MC: will make change in a future version.
16:24:28 <laura> …will be a formal responce later
16:24:47 <AWK> zakim, next item
16:24:47 <Zakim> agendum 3. "CFC Responses" taken up [from AWK]
16:25:10 <laura> AWK: we had some dissucion on editors call.
16:25:20 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/decision-policy
16:25:39 <laura> …folks should look at the WCAG WG Decision Policy.
16:26:07 <laura> …we have a Call for Consensus process.
16:27:05 <laura> …a consensus call not a call for changes.
16:27:24 <laura> …+1 means you can live with it.
16:28:09 <laura> …if you can’t live with it, it needs to be new information.
16:28:16 <Joshue108> q?
16:28:33 <Ryladog_> q+
16:28:35 <laura> …don’t rehash old discussion on a CFC.
16:29:08 <AWK> ack r
16:29:25 <laura> Katie: could we have a pre CFC?
16:29:40 <gowerm> pre-CFC+ the call and the survey
16:29:59 <gowerm> sorry = the call and survey
16:30:05 <Joshue108> not about that idea
16:30:15 <laura> AWK: worry about a pre pre CFC.
16:30:27 <Joshue108> s/ not about that idea/not mad about pre-CFC idea
16:30:34 <Joshue108> +1 to MikeGower
16:31:01 <laura> …would be additional overhead for a pre CFC.
16:31:31 <Joshue108> q?
16:31:33 <Joshue108> q?
16:31:37 <Joshue108> q+
16:31:53 <laura> Katie: How do people know when they need to say something?
16:32:18 <MichaelC> q+
16:32:28 <laura> AC: we have minutes. and resolutions
16:32:38 <MichaelC> q+ to say resolutions in minutes are resolutions of the people present in that call, not resolutions / decisions of the WG
16:32:53 <laura> AWK: If we have new information we can consider it.
16:32:57 <AWK> ack jo
16:32:57 <Joshue108> ack me
16:33:04 <alastairc> present+ alastairc
16:33:32 <laura> Josh: pre CFC is the discussion.
16:33:44 <laura> …we have calls and lists.
16:33:56 <laura> …we have multiple ways.
16:34:17 <Ryladog__> Ryladog__ has joined #wai-wcag
16:34:20 <Ryladog__> q+
16:34:21 <AWK> ack mi
16:34:21 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say resolutions in minutes are resolutions of the people present in that call, not resolutions / decisions of the WG
16:34:31 <laura> …don’t want pre-CFCs due to overhead. Keep it lean. +1 or -1.
16:35:10 <laura> MC: Resolutions in meetings are not the decision.
16:35:11 <AWK> ack r
16:36:02 <laura> Katie: Don’t want to add more work. But want to be sure that the people on email are heard.
16:36:16 <jon_avila> q?
16:36:55 <laura> AWK: We had disussion on list, on call, in telco.
16:37:04 <Ryladog__> q+
16:37:24 <Joshue108> Thanks Katie - all mail and input is parsed by the chairs (as much as humanly possible) and taken into consideration by us.
16:37:43 <laura> …Folks should participate in the veuues.
16:38:11 <AWK> ack r
16:38:35 <laura> …and constructively engage.
16:38:35 <AWK> q+
16:38:47 <Joshue108> q+
16:39:14 <laura> Katie: whatever we need to do. Point out resolutions, or whatever.
16:39:17 <Joshue108> -q
16:39:17 <AWK> ack AWK
16:39:31 <Joshue108> q+ to say that is not true all input was considered
16:40:02 <jon_avila> q+
16:40:08 <laura> AWK: David can speak for himself if he was ignored.
16:41:07 <laura> DM: Text was updated per his suggestion.
16:41:41 <laura> …language was negotiated.
16:42:46 <laura>  Katie: Formal Objection was from me.
16:42:54 <AWK> ack j
16:42:54 <jon_avila> q?
16:42:55 <Joshue108> ack me
16:42:56 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say that is not true all input was considered
16:42:59 <laura> DM: Did appreciate change.
16:43:07 <jon_avila> q+
16:43:47 <laura> Josh: Takes objection. Chairs worked as openly as possible.
16:44:04 <AWK> ack jon
16:44:31 <MichaelC> q+ to say there is a difference between ignoring and disagreeing
16:44:57 <laura> JA: Head MC say the call the Resolution is not the decision.
16:45:00 <AWK> ack mich
16:45:00 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say there is a difference between ignoring and disagreeing
16:45:08 <MichaelC> q+ to say call input should take into account list discussion
16:45:15 <laura> …If miss call no time to discuss.
16:45:39 <laura> MC: difference beween ignoring and disagreeing.
16:46:18 <AWK> q+
16:46:23 <AWK> ack mi
16:46:23 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say call input should take into account list discussion
16:46:24 <laura> …tRegarding timing: CFC should happen after discussions.
16:47:03 <Ryladog__> q+
16:47:13 <laura> …should pay attention to list input.
16:47:19 <Joshue108> q+
16:47:24 <AWK> ack awk
16:47:28 <laura> …need to keep things moving too.
16:47:52 <laura> AWK: varies from situation to situation.
16:49:02 <jon_avila> q?
16:49:39 <laura> …Chairs discretion when discussion is ready for CFC.
16:49:41 <jon_avila> q+
16:49:42 <AWK> ack ry
16:49:53 <laura> …we will improve. It is not easy.
16:50:43 <AWK> regrets+ Mike_Elledge
16:50:55 <laura> Katie: Think is was a  thorny issue. Have resprect for chairs.
16:51:16 <Joshue108> ack me
16:51:28 <laura> …everyone should be heard before CFC.
16:52:21 <laura> Josh: jon, why do you think you were missing things?
16:53:34 <laura> JA: Survey went out late. The discussion Tuesday. CFC Wed. Not time for input.
16:54:00 <laura> …not sufficient time for decisions.
16:54:12 <AWK> ack jon
16:54:45 <Ryladog__> q+
16:55:06 <laura> …political process. Has had calls to have him change his mind on topics.
16:55:13 <AWK> ack r
16:55:52 <laura> Katie: Disturbing to be strong armed. We need to address that.
16:56:09 <laura> DM: I’ve had those types of calls too.
16:56:20 <AWK> zakim, next item
16:56:20 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Survey of GitHub items for review: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Misc20161025/results (#'s 1-4)" taken up [from AWK]
16:57:17 <AWK> Correct survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/GithubIssuesNov12016/results
16:58:08 <laura> TOPIC:  Consider language changes in Sufficient Techniques section of 1.3.2 SC for item 1 #243
16:58:24 <Jan> Jan has joined #wai-wcag
16:58:25 <gowerm> k
16:58:32 <Joshue108> q?
16:59:06 <jon_avila> I have to jump off the call for another call -- I have put my responses in the survey.  My main comment is that it is not clear what the proposal is -- we need to clearly indicate what our proposed response is to the commenter;.
17:01:41 <David_MacDonald> q+
17:01:43 <laura> MG: I renamed this issue "Consider language changes in Sufficient Techniques section of 1.3.2 SC for item 1”. not sure why the original issue title -- which is inaccurate of what I'm proposing -- is still showing up as the issue name. proposal is to alter the SC language appended to the technique, NOT the technique title.
17:02:24 <laura> AWK: We have tools to test.
17:03:11 <AWK> q+
17:03:17 <AWK> ack da
17:03:19 <laura> MG: It talks about a conditional situation.
17:04:02 <laura> MC: History is from tables.
17:04:22 <AWK> ack awk
17:05:29 <David_MacDonald> +1
17:06:15 <laura> AWK: Don’t hvae to do any one certain technique. Variety of sufficient techniques.
17:06:31 <laura> Don’t have to do G57
17:06:40 <Greg> q+
17:06:49 <laura> …Does that make since?
17:07:43 <laura> MG: most content does not rely on meaningful sequence.
17:07:46 <AWK> ack greg
17:07:58 <Greg> The reference to G57 mischaracterizes G57's actual meaning.
17:08:11 <Joshue108> q+
17:08:35 <AWK> ack j
17:08:42 <laura> GL: G57 misrepresents things
17:08:57 <Greg> I don't think that is appropriate, and should be corrected since it's purely editorial text.
17:09:18 <laura> Josh: lots of variable that can affect things.
17:09:27 <laura> …maybe change title
17:09:38 <Joshue108> q?
17:09:53 <laura> …interesting points being raised.
17:11:25 <laura> AWK: Not sure why we have distinction between 1 and 2 in the tech list.
17:11:56 <laura> MD: It has to affect the meaning.
17:12:17 <laura> …not concerned about it.
17:12:33 <laura> Katie: not concerned either.
17:12:55 <laura> AWK: 123 is based on the page.
17:14:15 <Joshue108> Do we have a definition of meaningful sequence?
17:14:25 <AWK> s/123 is based/1.3.2 is based
17:14:47 <laura> DM: Could have said it better.
17:14:55 <Joshue108> q?
17:14:56 <gowerm> just remove the word "all" from #1
17:15:08 <laura> AWK: anyone want to take an action to clarify?
17:15:40 <laura> MG: 132 is a conditional situation.
17:15:43 <Joshue108> -q
17:15:58 <Joshue108> +q there is a difference between meaningful content and meaningful sequence
17:16:14 <Joshue108> +q to say there is a difference between meaningful content and meaningful sequence
17:16:17 <Joshue108> ack me
17:16:17 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say there is a difference between meaningful content and meaningful sequence
17:16:31 <laura> Josh: difference between meaningful content and meaningful sequence.
17:17:13 <kirkwood> this may be a COGA issue?
17:17:37 <laura> … maybe we need to distinguish that.
17:17:54 <laura> …I’ll look into it.
17:17:57 <Joshue108> ACTION: Josh to look at meaningful sequence may need an update
17:17:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-332 - Look at meaningful sequence may need an update [on Joshue O Connor - due 2016-11-15].
17:18:20 <laura> RESOLUTION: Leave open.
17:18:39 <laura> TOPIC: Moving ARIA2 technique from 3.3.3 and putting in 3.3.2; adding ARIA21 to 3.3.3
17:18:45 <gowerm> I'm fine with only first part of request
17:19:31 <laura> 1: Accept as proposed. 6: Accept with the following changes. 4: Do not accept.
17:20:44 <jamesn> q+
17:20:48 <MichaelC> q+
17:20:50 <AWK> q+
17:21:04 <AWK> ack ja
17:21:06 <laura> MG: Okay with not adding ARIA21 to 3.3.3.
17:21:38 <jamesn> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/minimize-error-cues.html
17:22:34 <laura> James: okay with moving ARIA2 from 3.3.3. to 3.3.2
17:22:47 <AWK> ack mi
17:23:29 <David_MacDonald> +1
17:23:35 <laura> MC: required fields is good for 3.3.2, but I don't think it is sufficient on its own, so I think it can only be advisory. You still need labels.
17:23:44 <AWK> ack awk
17:23:57 <Joshue108> no
17:24:25 <laura> AWK: Does Aria-reqiured have visual labels?
17:24:36 <laura> Someone: no
17:25:20 <laura> AWK: May be the reason this is not in 332.
17:26:32 <laura> MC: HTML5 has a required attribute that may have visual impact.
17:27:51 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
17:28:37 <laura> MG: we don’t have a HTML required tech
17:29:16 <laura> Josh: support for ARIA ones may be better.
17:32:44 <laura> RESOLUTION: Leave open. Take up next time.
17:32:48 <gowerm> Thanks
17:33:28 <Jim> Thanks
17:33:33 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
17:33:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html laura
17:34:30 <laura> s/responce/response/
17:34:35 <laura> s/tRegarding /Regarding /
17:34:45 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
17:34:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html laura
17:34:59 <Kim_D> Kim_D has left #wai-wcag
17:35:55 <laura> s/shoud give thier comments. /should give thier comments. /
17:37:09 <laura> s/no coodintion listed with SVG group. They work more with APA grou /AWK: no coordination listed with SVG group. They work more with APA group. /
17:39:03 <laura> s/disussion /discussion /
17:39:22 <laura> s/veuues /venues /
17:40:02 <laura> s/beween /between /
17:40:49 <laura> s/resprect /respect/
17:41:27 <laura> rrsagent, make minutes
17:41:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html laura
17:42:16 <laura> s/veuues/venues/
17:43:12 <laura> trackbot, end meeting
17:43:12 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:43:12 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AWK, jeanne, Joshue108, Greg_Lowney, Srini, marcjohlic, JaeunJemmaKu, jon_avila, Mike, Gower, Laura, Katie_Haritos-Shea, KimD, MichaelC,
17:43:15 <Zakim> ... kirkwood, MoeKraft, alastairc
17:43:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:43:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
17:43:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:43:21 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/11/08-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
17:43:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Josh to look at meaningful sequence may need an update [1]
17:43:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/11/08-wai-wcag-irc#T17-17-57