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12:22:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:22:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:22:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:22:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
12:22:38 <trackbot> Date: 31 October 2016
12:22:53 <renato> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20161031
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12:23:12 <renato> present+ renato
12:24:49 <renato> Hi ben, you can make the call now?
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12:30:28 <Sabrina> present+ Sabrina
12:30:34 <ivan> present+ ivan
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12:31:40 <renato> Chair: renato
12:31:46 <renato> Regrets: Serena, Ben, Caroline
12:31:56 <James> present+ James
12:31:57 <michaelS> present+ michaelS
12:32:56 <victor> present+ victor
12:33:36 <victor> I can scribe if you like
12:33:50 <victor> scribe: victor
12:34:23 <victor> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20161031
12:34:43 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/10/24-poe-minutes.html
12:34:55 <victor> topic: Approve last meeting's minutes
12:35:21 <victor> RESOLUTION: meeting notes of the last week's call have been approved
12:35:52 <renato> https://docs.google.com/document/d/15nbqGY20IIGbTQOzKxzw59TLzwfPpRZu-1KKA97phKg/edit
12:36:12 <victor> topic: BISG use cases
12:36:36 <victor> POE.UC.32: Improve efficiency of foreign rights transactions (University Press)
12:37:26 <victor> renato: Requirement 3.1 is about being language-agnostic for international purposes
12:37:51 <victor> renato: URI's are neutral hence every language can be potentially supported
12:37:59 <Brian_Ulicny> present+
12:38:00 <victor> renato: this applies to 3.2 and 3.3 too
12:38:54 <victor> ivan: terms can also be numbers, and these be mapped to actual languages. This way the system is more neutral, as ODRL is English-oriented.
12:39:36 <victor> renato: W3C Internationalization Requeriments are the reference
12:40:06 <victor> ivan: what we do should be ok for these requirements
12:40:50 <victor> RESOLUTION: We considered UC32 as covered
12:40:51 <victor> topic: POE.UC.33: Disambiguate access permission from copyright permission (University Press)
12:41:31 <victor> renato: four requirements are stated
12:42:01 <ivan> q+
12:42:50 <victor> victor: is "given platform covered"?
12:43:00 <victor> renato: we can specify the specific device
12:43:06 <ivan> q-
12:43:13 <victor> michaelS: is platform=device?
12:44:53 <victor> renato: it is also about access control
12:44:58 <victor> ivan: we can represent the right to access
12:45:22 <James> Authentication and Authorisation is out of scope I think.
12:46:03 <victor> renato: Marc says it deals with usage permission
12:46:26 <victor> michaelS: this is a general problem. Once accessed... are they allowed to read only? copy-paste?
12:46:42 <James> Authorisation may make use of a ODRL an agreement depending on internal business rules
12:48:01 <victor> michaelS: perhaps by allowing the plug-in of external vocabularies would suffice
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12:48:30 <smyles> present+
12:48:49 <victor> s/michaelS/ivan/
12:49:22 <victor> rrsagent, generate minutes
12:49:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/31-poe-minutes.html victor
12:50:06 <victor> renato: any other comment?
12:50:22 <Brian_Ulicny> q+
12:51:13 <victor> Brian_Ulicny: the licensing environment must be considered
12:51:19 <victor> renato: perhaps we need more clarification
12:51:44 <victor> RESOLUTION: We ask for more clarification to University Press
12:52:08 <victor> topic. POE.UC.34: Library collection management and access
12:52:19 <victor> topic: POE.UC.34: Library collection management and access
12:52:58 <victor> renato: (reads aloud the four requirements)
12:53:15 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:53:20 <phila> present+
12:53:29 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:53:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/31-poe-minutes.html phila
12:53:53 <victor> renato: we are already covering 34.1. There are other standards like ONIX for Books, JATS for journal articles, XMP or PLUS for images.
12:54:43 <victor> michaelS: this is much like composite photos
12:55:17 <michaelS> https://www.w3.org/TR/media-frags/
12:55:25 <victor> michaelS: if we have a composited asset, we can different policies for each of the regions of the asset
12:55:47 <victor> michaelS: should these independent policies be somehow grouped?
12:56:21 <victor> renato: i understand that different parts of the assets are identified with URIs foolowing the media fragments recommendations...
12:56:35 <victor> s/foolowing/following/
12:57:51 <victor> requirement 3 is about providing standard info on the copyright holders
12:57:56 <victor> (silence)
12:58:18 <victor> renato: requirement 4 is about different rightsholders in different geographical areas
12:58:33 <victor> michaelS: then we can simply have different policies, each applying to a region
12:58:41 <James> I agree with MichaelS
12:59:10 <victor> phila: there is a difference between geography and jurisdiction
12:59:59 <victor> michaelS: we use country codes as equivalent to jurisdiction
13:00:51 <victor> victor: (I had a small objection, but worthless to be discussed: we specify the country code tied to a restriction, not to an statement that is generally attributed to the party)
13:01:10 <victor> topic: POE.UC.35: Rights licensing for custom textbook publishing (higher education publishers)
13:01:34 <victor> RESOLUTION UC.34 is already covered.
13:01:42 <victor> michaelS: 35.1 is already covered
13:02:10 <victor> Req. 35.2 is about "Permissions data may also be associated with a group of products"
13:02:27 <victor> ivan: we may want to remember POWDER...
13:02:55 <James> q+
13:03:05 <victor> renato: we can have more than 1 URI as the target. Can't we?
13:03:12 <victor> ivan: why not? a list of identifiers
13:03:19 <phila> ack b
13:03:23 <phila> ack j
13:04:19 <victor> James: this is like a problem we discussed: we may not want one policy pointing to 1000 assets, but 1000 assets pointing to one single policy.
13:04:54 <smyles> q+
13:05:06 <phila> ack s
13:06:04 <victor> smyles: a URI identifying a single thing is a very rare case. E.g. one video may have one URI. But it will have multiple renditions. E.g. a text item might be updated and have differently authored versions etc.
13:06:06 <phila> q+
13:06:43 <victor> phila: There are several solutions. URI templates are very well stablished (braces), google uses wildcards
13:06:52 <ivan> q+
13:07:33 <phila> ack me
13:07:34 <victor> phila: are these UC important enough for this group to tackle them?
13:07:56 <victor> ivan: CSV on the Web used URI templates.
13:08:03 <ivan> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6570
13:08:36 <victor> ivan: With that, we have something to start with.
13:09:26 <victor> phila: The "exceptions" are not perfectly handled (in POWDER they were better modeled) but it is just a detail
13:09:33 <James> q-
13:09:51 <ivan> q-
13:10:02 <phila> phila: I would say "A POWDER- like approach" rather than recommend it directly
13:10:38 <victor> renato: this should be no problem -- 35.3 Permissions and obligations must be able to be expressed for content locally authored, for example by a teacher, that is not licensed from a third party.
13:11:06 <victor> renato: We are not in control of "35.4 policies must be able to be persistent"
13:11:13 <victor> ivan: +1
13:12:07 <victor> renato: on 35.6, "The permissions and obligations associated with the coursepack may not align with the permissions and obligations associated with each of its components." we may consider there is a new resource.
13:12:11 <James> its UGC I think
13:12:26 <victor> renato: there may not be a perfect alignment, as conflicts may arise.
13:12:43 <victor> ivan: what can we do about it? we do not want to have checking mechanisms.
13:13:23 <victor> renato: at most, within the Semantics note.
13:13:53 <victor> topic: POE U.C. 36: Users need to know the permissions and obligations associated with using a given publication.
13:15:11 <phila> q+
13:15:14 <victor> renato: this may be part of the implementation details
13:15:26 <victor> renato: 36.2 is pretty much the same
13:16:21 <victor> phila: From an American lawyer's point of view, the fact that you publish a text does not imply that the user has read it
13:17:04 <victor> renato: so we take it as out of scope
13:17:20 <victor> renato: we are waiting from clarifications from XXX
13:18:02 <victor> ivan: There may be something more serious than URI pattern
13:18:09 <victor> renato: we need some narrative text in the spec.
13:18:18 <victor> renato: any other comment regarding BISG?
13:18:33 <phila> q-
13:18:57 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements#POE.R.V.16_Assertion_Policy_Type
13:19:11 <victor> topic: Policy type to support PLUS data model
13:19:58 <James> It seems useful to me
13:20:38 <victor> RESOLUTION: we accept POE.R.V.16_Assertion_Policy_Type
13:21:06 <victor> renato: shall we come back to complex constraints? AOB? or shall we talk about virtual F2F?
13:21:44 <victor> topic: Management of actions / issues on different locations
13:22:01 <victor> renato suggest using exclusively the W3C issue tracker (and NOT the github issues).
13:22:28 <victor> renato: github issues may be tied to the actual edition of the documents
13:22:44 <victor> renato: while W3C tracker can be used for actions imposed to actual people.
13:23:29 <victor> RESOLUTION: W3C actions to be used as "TODO" list for participants.
13:23:37 <victor> topic: Virtual F2F meeting
13:23:59 <victor> renato: it has been announced as a "very long conference 4-6 hours"
13:24:05 <victor> phila: it is limited by timezones.
13:24:47 <victor> phila: there is no easy way.
13:26:03 <Sabrina> Depending on the start time - I might not be able to attend the whole Virtual F2F due to a parent teacher meeting
13:26:50 <victor> phila: 12.30 UTC is perhaps the best for most of us --but 22.30 for Renato(!). Alternatively, we may start much later so that Renato wakes up early and joins.
13:28:00 <victor> renato: I prefer in my night, possibly abanding the call earlier than the rest.
13:28:26 <victor> phila: s/abanding/abandoning
13:29:05 <victor> renato: I will propose a window of time; agenda is related to having WDs ready by mid December.
13:30:00 <victor> renato: AOB?
13:30:34 <victor> phila: What about real F2F?
13:30:55 <victor> renato: will be included in the next agenda
13:31:16 <victor> rrsagent, generate minutes
13:31:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/31-poe-minutes.html victor
13:31:21 <victor> rrsagent, generate minutes
13:31:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/31-poe-minutes.html victor
13:31:59 <victor> ACTION: renato to write VirtualF2F agenda - due next week
13:31:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-35 - Write virtualf2f agenda [on Renato Iannella - due 2016-11-07].
13:32:43 <renato> rrsagent, generate minutes
13:32:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/31-poe-minutes.html renato
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